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Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby TheRocket

Jester82 wrote:Little venues. It would be interesting to see these two different approaches on a 25-35 frames event in the Crucible.
Murphy wasn't below par, he was doing well, long potting even outstanding. When you know your opponent can tidy up it is gonna be difficult.


Murphys safety game and long potting wasnt the problem. Its his scoring that did let him down big time. When you only make 30's instead of 70's and 80's the likes of Selby and Higgins will punish you.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Holden Chinaski

TheRocket wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Little venues. It would be interesting to see these two different approaches on a 25-35 frames event in the Crucible.
Murphy wasn't below par, he was doing well, long potting even outstanding. When you know your opponent can tidy up it is gonna be difficult.


Murphys safety game and long potting wasnt the problem. Its his scoring that did let him down big time. When you only make 30's instead of 70's and 80's the likes of Selby and Higgins will punish you.

I remember Ronnie doing commentary on a Murphy match a while ago and he said Murphy's problem is he tends to break down after breaks of around 50, and that's not good enough to win big titles.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Little venues. It would be interesting to see these two different approaches on a 25-35 frames event in the Crucible.
Murphy wasn't below par, he was doing well, long potting even outstanding. When you know your opponent can tidy up it is gonna be difficult.


Murphys safety game and long potting wasnt the problem. Its his scoring that did let him down big time. When you only make 30's instead of 70's and 80's the likes of Selby and Higgins will punish you.

I remember Ronnie doing commentary on a Murphy match a while ago and he said Murphy's problem is he tends to break down after breaks of around 50, and that's not good enough to win big titles.


Yep, how many times did he break down early, balls at his mercy? Far too many, and lost more frames than he won because of it.

Also, frames 3, 9 and 19 made a massive difference, at least should have won 2 of them. It's only speculation now, but TR is fully agree, a Judd Trump would demolish Selby like he's done in recent meetings. He's like Selby's bogeyman player at the moment, all players seem to have one. Trump's high power game can overcome the rest, plus the fact that Trump has improved his safety game massively also helps.

Hope Trump can meet Selby in big matches next season, they should be in opposite halves of the draw most of the events.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

In the end it was a good Final, would have loved if Murphy won that last frame, even if he lost the Final 18-16, just to see how Selby would respond in frame 34.

Murphy actually did do ok most of the match. He drew at 4-4 3rd and final session, and even won the 1st session 5-3. Problem was losing the 2nd 7-2. That's where he lost the match.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby TheRocket

Holden Chinaski wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
Jester82 wrote:Little venues. It would be interesting to see these two different approaches on a 25-35 frames event in the Crucible.
Murphy wasn't below par, he was doing well, long potting even outstanding. When you know your opponent can tidy up it is gonna be difficult.


Murphys safety game and long potting wasnt the problem. Its his scoring that did let him down big time. When you only make 30's instead of 70's and 80's the likes of Selby and Higgins will punish you.

I remember Ronnie doing commentary on a Murphy match a while ago and he said Murphy's problem is he tends to break down after breaks of around 50, and that's not good enough to win big titles.


Exactly. And it was there for everyone to see. Funnily enough Murphy did very well in the safety department and he was the one who got in first in most of the frames but everytime he had to play a little cannon or maybe a slightly trickier positional shot the break ended. And this is why Murphy is just a good breakbuilder but not a great breakbuilder.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Truth

I'm not sure where people are seeing this amazing H2H for Trump against Selby. According to Cuetracker they have played 32 times and the score is 17-15 to Trump, with Trump winning 55% of frames (not exactly a landslide). Interestingly, they haven't played that many important matches. Trump had an excellent year in 2019 when he beat Selby in the Masters, World Grand Prix, and International final. However, 2019 was a great year for Trump and quite forgettable for Selby.

Anyway, I think Selby is clearly ahead of Williams now in terms of careers. The extra World title, 2 TCs and 7 consecutive years at season end #1 are worth more than Williams +3 ranking events IMO. Selby isn't really that far behind Higgins, both are tied on WCs and TCs, Selby has had a better stretch as #1, but Higgins's huge lead on ranking titles puts him safely ahead for now.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Juddernaut88

Truth wrote:I'm not sure where people are seeing this amazing H2H for Trump against Selby. According to Cuetracker they have played 32 times and the score is 17-15 to Trump, with Trump winning 55% of frames (not exactly a landslide). Interestingly, they haven't played that many important matches. Trump had an excellent year in 2019 when he beat Selby in the Masters, World Grand Prix, and International final. However, 2019 was a great year for Trump and quite forgettable for Selby.

Anyway, I think Selby is clearly ahead of Williams now in terms of careers. The extra World title, 2 TCs and 7 consecutive years at season end #1 are worth more than Williams +3 ranking events IMO. Selby isn't really that far behind Higgins, both are tied on WCs and TCs, Selby has had a better stretch as #1, but Higgins's huge lead on ranking titles puts him safely ahead for now.


Most of Selbys wins against Judd Trump have come in the championship league, he's never beaten Judd Trump in a multi session match or any best of 11 matches. It has been 6 years since Selby last beat Judd in a non championship league match.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

OoNebsoO wrote:Selby's ruthless final streak continues. 12 now in a row. Since first WC win, lost just one final.


Nope, he lost 2 ranking event finals, 2016 Shanghai Masters and 2021 Shoot-Out.

Too bad he entered the Shoot-Out and lost in the Final. I don't like it myself it being a ranking event, but it is and the record books will show his amazing streak ended there. Even Selby wasn't aware until Goldstein mentioned it to him post-match.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Wildey

Andre147 wrote:
OoNebsoO wrote:Selby's ruthless final streak continues. 12 now in a row. Since first WC win, lost just one final.


Nope, he lost 2 ranking event finals, 2016 Shanghai Masters and 2021 Shoot-Out.

Too bad he entered the Shoot-Out and lost in the Final. I don't like it myself it being a ranking event, but it is and the record books will show his amazing streak ended there. Even Selby wasn't aware until Goldstein mentioned it to him post-match.

Shoot out is not relevant at all its not even Snooker

Every Record book i see that has that monstrosity as a Ranking Event i rip out the page so thats 12 Ranking Finals in a Row hes won now.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Truth

Juddernaut88 wrote:Most of Selbys wins against Judd Trump have come in the championship league, he's never beaten Judd Trump in a multi session match or any best of 11 matches. It has been 6 years since Selby last beat Judd in a non championship league match.


The bottom line is that their H2H is very close, and most of their matches (Trumps wins included) are insignificant. Trump has won their more important meetings, but there just haven't been very many. They have only played in two longer matched (best of 17+), both were finals, Trump won them both, but neither match was played when Selby was #1, and one of the matches was close (10-8). I'm still not seeing a case for Trump being Selby's bogeyman.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Iranu

Wildey wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
OoNebsoO wrote:Selby's ruthless final streak continues. 12 now in a row. Since first WC win, lost just one final.


Nope, he lost 2 ranking event finals, 2016 Shanghai Masters and 2021 Shoot-Out.

Too bad he entered the Shoot-Out and lost in the Final. I don't like it myself it being a ranking event, but it is and the record books will show his amazing streak ended there. Even Selby wasn't aware until Goldstein mentioned it to him post-match.

Shoot out is not relevant at all its not even Snooker

Every Record book i see that has that monstrosity as a Ranking Event i rip out the page so thats 12 Ranking Finals in a Row hes won now.

Your opinion is irrelevant, sadly it’s a ranking event and therefore counts.

It sucks but it is what it is. Every record book you see with that monstrosity as a ranking event will be every record book.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby TheRocket

Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:1 in the Champions of Champions semi final 2014.
Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 in the European Masters semi final 2016.

Selby was still World number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 at the Masters in 2019.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Juddernaut88

TheRocket wrote:Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:1 in the Champions of Champions semi final 2014.
Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 in the European Masters semi final 2016.

Selby was still World number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 at the Masters in 2019.


:goodpost:

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby OoNebsoO

Andre147 wrote:
OoNebsoO wrote:Selby's ruthless final streak continues. 12 now in a row. Since first WC win, lost just one final.


Nope, he lost 2 ranking event finals, 2016 Shanghai Masters and 2021 Shoot-Out.

Too bad he entered the Shoot-Out and lost in the Final. I don't like it myself it being a ranking event, but it is and the record books will show his amazing streak ended there. Even Selby wasn't aware until Goldstein mentioned it to him post-match.


It's a ranking event, but it's not a proper snooker event. I can and will easily ignore it in topics such as this. You could cling onto "record books", but that would just be silly to me in this instance.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

Wildey wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
OoNebsoO wrote:Selby's ruthless final streak continues. 12 now in a row. Since first WC win, lost just one final.


Nope, he lost 2 ranking event finals, 2016 Shanghai Masters and 2021 Shoot-Out.

Too bad he entered the Shoot-Out and lost in the Final. I don't like it myself it being a ranking event, but it is and the record books will show his amazing streak ended there. Even Selby wasn't aware until Goldstein mentioned it to him post-match.

Shoot out is not relevant at all its not even Snooker

Every Record book i see that has that monstrosity as a Ranking Event i rip out the page so thats 12 Ranking Finals in a Row hes won now.


No it's not, and like Iranu says your opinion on this is absolutely irrelevant.

IT IS a ranking event! I don't like it myself, but the record books won't say: : "No, the Shoot-Out is not a ranking event because Wildey doesnt think it should be" rofl

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

It's Selby's fault for entering the event in the first place. He should know that getting to the Final and losing it, there was a chance that streak got broken.

It did get broken, and one or two people thinking it didnt doesnt change what the record books will say.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

But it's an amazing streak regardless, and for me it's Selby's most impressive record.

Since he won the 2014 World Final, Selby has won 17 ranking events out if the 19 Finals he played, and that for me is his most impressive record.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Truth

TheRocket wrote:Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:1 in the Champions of Champions semi final 2014.
Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 in the European Masters semi final 2016.

Selby was still World number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 at the Masters in 2019.


So what? None of the matches you have mentioned are multi-session. One of the matches is a standard ranker, one is a non-ranker non-TC, and although it is technically correct that Selby was #1 in the 2019 Masters it was only on the back of the masses of points he stacked in 2017 (3 months later he'd be #6).

You can cherry pick stats as much of you like, but the bottom line is that their H2H is close at 17-15. I have already mentioned that Trump has won their more significant meetings, but there just haven't been many. If you want to know what a real bogeyman looks like then look up Selby-Wilson or O'Sullivan-Williams.
Last edited by Truth on 04 May 2021, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby HappyCamper

SnookerFan wrote:May my tounge turn black for saying this, but this actually disappoints me.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColinMurray/ ... 3089090563

I used to think that Colin Murray was King Of The Bellends. But now I prefer him to Andy Goldstein.


Murray is, and always was, a good lad.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Andre147

Truth wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:1 in the Champions of Champions semi final 2014.
Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 in the European Masters semi final 2016.

Selby was still World number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 at the Masters in 2019.


So what? None of the matches you have mentioned are multi-session. One of the matches is a standard ranker, one is a non-ranker non-TC, and although it is technically correct that Selby was #1 in the 2019 Masters it was only on the back of the masses of points he stacked in 2017 (3 months later he'd be #6).

You can cherry pick stats as much of you like, but the bottom line is that their H2H is close at 17-15. I have already mentioned that Trump has won their more significant meetings, but there just haven't been many. If you want to know what a real bogeyman looks like then look up Selby-Wilson or O'Sullivan-Williams.


Trump beat Selby 9-4 at the International Champs, a multi-session match, just in case you somehow forgot.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Truth

Andre147 wrote:
No it's not, and like Iranu says your opinion on this is absolutely irrelevant.

IT IS a ranking event! I don't like it myself, but the record books won't say: : "No, the Shoot-Out is not a ranking event because Wildey doesnt think it should be" rofl


The Shoot Out really soils the ranker status. Based on merit it should be worth about a 1/4 of a PTC. This is why I hate ranking points being based on prize money. Theoretically it just takes one crazy sponsor to make the Shoot Out more valuable than a World Championship!

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby TheRocket

Truth wrote:
TheRocket wrote:Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:1 in the Champions of Champions semi final 2014.
Selby was World Champion and number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 in the European Masters semi final 2016.

Selby was still World number 1 when Trump beat him 6:2 at the Masters in 2019.


So what? None of the matches you have mentioned are multi-session. Two of the matches are just standard rankers, and although it is technically correct that Selby was #1 in the 2019 Masters it was only on the back of the masses of points he stacked in 2017 (3 months later he'd be #6).

You can cherry pick stats as much of you like, but the bottom line is that their H2H is close at 17-15. I have already mentioned that Trump has won their more significant meetings, but there just haven't been many. If you want to know what a real bogeyman looks like then look up Selby-Wilson or O'Sullivan-Williams.


Ok there is no doubt that O'Sullivan-Williams is something else when it comes to bogeyman. Thats like really total ownage.

But with Trump and Selby I already said before its not just that Trump has won all of their more significant meetings, its the scoreline as well. He hammered Selby. And that includes a multi session as well. And I watched all of these matches as well and what I see is how easily Trump overpowered Selby.

I'm not saying Selby cant beat him btw but if both players are in-form and they meet in a big match I'd fancy Trump to beat Selby 4 times out of 5.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Iranu

If I’ve counted correctly, it’s 6-3 Judd in “proper” events (ie excluding the likes of CL and PTCs) and one of Selby’s wins came in 2008. And almost all of Judd’s wins have been comprehensive.

I don’t think they’ve met often enough in those events to be certain that Judd owns Selby or anything, but the evidence is definitely there.

I’d love them to start meeting more often to see what happens. A Judd-Selby World Final would be a ‘spicy’ prospect as Judd might say.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Running side

HappyCamper wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:May my tounge turn black for saying this, but this actually disappoints me.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColinMurray/ ... 3089090563

I used to think that Colin Murray was King Of The Bellends. But now I prefer him to Andy Goldstein.


Murray is, and always was, a good lad.

Totally agree, Goldstein loves himself and a cockney Man u fan got.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Truth

Andre147 wrote:Trump beat Selby 9-4 at the International Champs, a multi-session match, just in case you somehow forgot.


I already mentioned that here (I always speak the truth btw ;))

Truth wrote:The bottom line is that their H2H is very close, and most of their matches (Trumps wins included) are insignificant. Trump has won their more important meetings, but there just haven't been very many. They have only played in two longer matched (best of 17+), both were finals, Trump won them both, but neither match was played when Selby was #1, and one of the matches was close (10-8). I'm still not seeing a case for Trump being Selby's bogeyman.


Anyway, for the umpteenth time, my point is that their H2H is close, and although Trump has performed better in their significant meetings, there just haven't been many meetings. Finally, the only major meeting they had in Selby's 7 year #1 spell was at the Masters in 2019, but Selby wasn't even playing like a top 5 player by that point (as his ranking would soon indicate). If Selby wins the next muti-session match against Trump then their record would look fairly even at 2-1. Contrast this with say Williams, who would really have to go on the rampage against O'Sullivan to make his record look respectable.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final Mark Selby v Shaun Murp

Postby Wildey

Truth wrote:
Juddernaut88 wrote:Most of Selbys wins against Judd Trump have come in the championship league, he's never beaten Judd Trump in a multi session match or any best of 11 matches. It has been 6 years since Selby last beat Judd in a non championship league match.


The bottom line is that their H2H is very close, and most of their matches (Trumps wins included) are insignificant. Trump has won their more important meetings, but there just haven't been very many. They have only played in two longer matched (best of 17+), both were finals, Trump won them both, but neither match was played when Selby was #1, and one of the matches was close (10-8). I'm still not seeing a case for Trump being Selby's bogeyman.

They not played that much to be fair the only Multi session matches has happened in China first was in 2011 when Selby had only 1 ranking title to his name and Judd had everything to gain and nothing to lose and the other was in 2019 when Selby's Confidence and form was suffering so not much to go on really.