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Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Prop » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Dan-cat wrote:
Prop wrote:Xintong reminds me of 1980s Jimmy. Plenty of flair.


The only thing that would make him more flair is if he actually wore flares.


Would watache <ok>

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby TheRocket » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Dan-cat wrote:
TheRocket wrote:some people might call me hater but imo Selby is the biggest overachiever in Snooker. By a mile.


This is a hot take.


maybe but I stand by it. Selby won more World titles than he should have done with his ability. He benefited from two of the biggest bottle jobs we've ever seen in World finals (2014 and 2017). Something we'd normally only see from Jimmy White and Matthew Stevens maybe.

Trump and Robertson are better players than Selby for me (level of play/ability-wise) but they have only won one World title so far. Which in my eyes isnt a fair reflection of the actual abilities between the three players. Trump might and probably win more however.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby TheRocket » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Pink Ball wrote:I think Trump probably will go on to be a greater player than Selby, but he's not there yet and actually has quite a road to travel.

There isn't a bucking hope Robertson has been a better player than Selby.


Ability-wise or standardwise he is imo. He can play to an unbelievable level. A higher level than Selby for sure. Just watch the 2019 CoC final.

A 2 World title gap between them is nowhere near a fair reflection but its reality unfortunately. But Robertson has only himself to blame for that.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Prop » 08 Jan 2021 Read

TheRocket wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I think Trump probably will go on to be a greater player than Selby, but he's not there yet and actually has quite a road to travel.

There isn't a bucking hope Robertson has been a better player than Selby.


Ability-wise or standardwise he is imo. He can play to an unbelievable level. A higher level than Selby for sure. Just watch the 2019 CoC final.

A 2 World title gap between them is nowhere near a fair reflection but its reality unfortunately. But Robertson has only himself to blame for that.


This goes back to the old argument - peak level is only a small part of the story. There have been loads of players that could potentially play to the sort of level you’d see on most days from the very best in the game. But they were not successful, because their peak game was all they had, and their peaks were few and far between.

Part of being a complete, successful player is how those spells of peak form are articulated, and how competitive the player is when not at their peak. Selby is a great example of a player that isn’t often playing at their peak, but has sufficient mastery of the game to remain more than competitive regardless. In fact, that’s an understatement - he’s won a hell of a lot while simmering somewhere below his peak.

Not many players can do that. They’re either ‘on’ or ‘off’. Judd Trump used to be a bit like that. But he got to a point where he accepted that there was another side of the game to master, that he would need to apply at the times he wasn’t flying and rattling in century after century. We’ve seen how much more successful he’s become because of it. His peak game hasn’t really changed, he’s just developed the tools he was missing to get him through spells between peaks.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Jan 2021 Read

@Rocket it's part of Selby's skill set that he is an outrageous safety and tactical player, and for that reason he won those two bottle jobs as you call it. Ronnie didn't bottle in 2014, Selby took his game apart. There is a difference. This is not over achieving. This is... achieving.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby TheRocket » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Dan-cat wrote:@Rocket it's part of Selby's skill set that he is an outrageous safety and tactical player, and for that reason he won those two bottle jobs as you call it. Ronnie didn't bottle in 2014, Selby took his game apart. There is a difference. This is not over achieving. This is... achieving.


you always need two players to do what they have to do to have a successful and big comeback. One player who plays good stuff to come back and the other player who drops his level by some margin to make it possible.

Ronnie collapsed on the second day and couldnt even make a 50, even when he was plum in the balls. Same applies to Higgins in 2017.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Jan 2021 Read

TheRocket wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:@Rocket it's part of Selby's skill set that he is an outrageous safety and tactical player, and for that reason he won those two bottle jobs as you call it. Ronnie didn't bottle in 2014, Selby took his game apart. There is a difference. This is not over achieving. This is... achieving.


you always need two players to do what they have to do to have a successful and big comeback. One player who plays good stuff to come back and the other player who drops his level by some margin to make it possible.

Ronnie collapsed on the second day and couldnt even make a 50, even when he was plum in the balls. Same applies to Higgins in 2017.


Watch the match again... Ronnie was getting to the table and couldn't see past a second colour due to what Selby had done to the table

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby SnookerEd25 » 08 Jan 2021 Read

HappyCamper wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Tom Ford just ate Selby for breakfast - 3 nil.


bit late for breakfast, more like afternoon tea.


Never too late for breakfast - best meal of the day!

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Jan 2021 Read

SnookerEd25 wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Tom Ford just ate Selby for breakfast - 3 nil.


bit late for breakfast, more like afternoon tea.


Never too late for breakfast - best meal of the day!


Disagree! I always intermittent fast from last meal of evening till lunch, which is usually around 16 hours, most of which is sleeping. Very useful tool

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby HappyCamper » 08 Jan 2021 Read

SnookerEd25 wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Tom Ford just ate Selby for breakfast - 3 nil.


bit late for breakfast, more like afternoon tea.


Never too late for breakfast - best meal of the day!


that's why you should have it as early as possible after waking!

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Iranu » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Like buck is Selby an over achiever. I’m not a fan of the phrase in general but Selby’s not an example of it. He might not be the best to watch but can we please stop pretending he’s not an awesome snooker player.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Cloud Strife » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Iranu wrote:Like buck is Selby an over achiever. I’m not a fan of the phrase in general but Selby’s not an example of it. He might not be the best to watch but can we please stop pretending he’s not an awesome snooker player.


Of course you would say this about Selby, he's your favourite player.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby Iranu » 08 Jan 2021 Read

I’d also argue Selby’s peak is better than Robbo’s, although it’s close. Robbo has the edge in scoring of course (though not by as much as some would have you believe) but Selby’s safety and tactical game is several orders of magnitude better than Robbo’s.

For example, no way does Robbo beat Ding in the 2017 WC semi the way Ding was playing. Both players were in top scoring form but Selby’s tactical game won the day.

In a pure scorefest, Robbo wins. But snooker isn’t just scoring.

Robbo hits his peak far more often than Selby, though.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby chengdufan » 08 Jan 2021 Read

HappyCamper wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:
HappyCamper wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Tom Ford just ate Selby for breakfast - 3 nil.


bit late for breakfast, more like afternoon tea.


Never too late for breakfast - best meal of the day!


that's why you should have it as early as possible after waking!

Make sure you wash your hands in between the two activities.


...


Oh, wait. You said 'waking'... My bad.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby SnookerEd25 » 08 Jan 2021 Read

I do admire Selby’s ability, but I do believe peak Selby and peak Ebdon are very similar players, and had they swapped eras (in terms of when they turned pro’) their achievements would pretty much mirror each other.

Re: BetVictor Championship League Snooker 2021 !!

Postby TheRocket » 08 Jan 2021 Read

Iranu wrote:I’d also argue Selby’s peak is better than Robbo’s, although it’s close. Robbo has the edge in scoring of course (though not by as much as some would have you believe) but Selby’s safety and tactical game is several orders of magnitude better than Robbo’s.

For example, no way does Robbo beat Ding in the 2017 WC semi the way Ding was playing. Both players were in top scoring form but Selby’s tactical game won the day.

In a pure scorefest, Robbo wins. But snooker isn’t just scoring.

Robbo hits his peak far more often than Selby, though.


Do you think Selby could have beaten Trump in the CoC final 2019 the way Trump played? Robertson did, by playing unbelievable Snooker. And Trump in that match played to a much higher level than Ding did.

I also posted the match stats of the 2017 WC semis a few months ago (unfortunately they dont exist anymore) and it showed a pot success of 88 or 89% for Selby and Ding. Safety success was good but you can watch the match and see how many opportunities Ding actually missed. Like golden opportunities, especially in the final session.
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