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Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby Iranu

If they stick around, the CoC and the Tour Championship will I think be considered alongside the UK and Masters. Possibly the China Open too if it retains its longer format (assuming it returns).

As great as the Home Nations idea is, I do think it’s diluted the history of the Welsh Open a bit to have it lumped in with three new tournaments. Then again it wasn’t really appreciated prior to that either.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby SnookerFan

What we've got to remember though, is that there's something between the Gibraltar Open and The Masters.

The GO is a tournament where all matches are best of sevens. It's not going to lead to epic matches/finals. Doesn't mean that every tournament is like that.

There's been epic Welsh Open finals, epic CoC finals etc.

Just because a tournament isn't at the top of the tree, doesn't make it comparable to the Gibraltar Open either.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby TheRocket

Dragonfly wrote:
TheRocket wrote:I agree that the World is something else and different tier but I dont think the UK and Masters are like your average tournament. The UK certainly wasnt when it was still a multi session tournament. Back then it was absolutely the 2nd biggest tournament.

If you look at some of the best rivalries and matches we've ever had in Snooker history the matches you remember the most are from the World,UK or Masters. They are the ones you tend to remember. The bo31 UK finals, all the great Mastersfinals which went to a decider and the World obviously speaks for itself.

So I dont think its just the BBC but its actually the players that put the UK and Masters above any other tournament bar the World. Watch Trumps interview from more than a year ago and he said how great it would be if he could hold the World,Masters and UK all at the same time. Back then he was obviously Masters and World Champion.


Absolutely agree 100%. I've been banging on about this for some time now. I've been a snooker fan since the 80s. And all the matches I remember are from the Worlds, Masters and UK. Obviously there have been some great matches in other events over the years. But they haven't had the same imprint on my memory. For example I vividly recall the Williams v Hendry Masters respot black. Sometimes friends ask if I remember Higgins v Davis UK final. Of course I do. Will anybody ever ask can I remember the 2021 Gibraltar open in 40 years. Of course they won't.

The events that matter are the triple crown events. Ask Hendry. The other events earn the winners some nice cheques. They have little or no effect on the public.


Yes, for Hendry its 1. World, 2 Masters, 3 UK.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fmZJ5U3FXM#t=1m30s

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby Iranu

Dragonfly wrote:Absolutely agree 100%. I've been banging on about this for some time now. I've been a snooker fan since the 80s. And all the matches I remember are from the Worlds, Masters and UK. Obviously there have been some great matches in other events over the years. But they haven't had the same imprint on my memory. For example I vividly recall the Williams v Hendry Masters respot black. Sometimes friends ask if I remember Higgins v Davis UK final. Of course I do. Will anybody ever ask can I remember the 2021 Gibraltar open in 40 years. Of course they won't.

The events that matter are the triple crown events. Ask Hendry. The other events earn the winners some nice cheques. They have little or no effect on the public.

I think people will be surprised by what matches are remembered from this era in the future. I think it’s different now than it was in the 90s and prior.

Of course I’m not suggesting people will remember the Gibraltar Open final but there’s a vast gap between Gibraltar and the TC in terms of prestige, and there are tournaments throughout that gap.

For example I’m sure matches like the Ronnie-Judd Tour Championship semi, the Robbo-Judd Champion of Champions final, Higgins’ Players Championship demolition... if those tournaments remain. Half the reason TC matches live long in the memory is that they’re still around and we’re reminded of those moments during present day coverage and discussion.

If the Classic had survived I’m sure a lot more people would remember moments from it a lot more readily.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby TheRocket

If the CoC and Tour Championship remain people might look at things differently in 10-20 years time and we might get to a stage where they are seen as equal to the Masters and UK. I think we could get to that stage eventually.

But for now the World,UK and Masters are the three constants of Snookers modern era. They are the best possible yardstick to compare the various Greats who have played in the modern era. The World Championship obviously the most important yardstick

Anything else changes all the time. Particularly the number of ranking titles. If prime Hendry had the opportunity to play 20 ranking tournaments every season he would have won much more 36.
So I cant use that as an argument against him that he hasnt won the most ranking titles and will probably end up in third or even fourth place (behind Ronnie,Judd, maybe even Higgins).

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

The Classic got a few mentions recently when Doug Mountjoy died. For a sport that's often accused of wallowing in nostalgia there's not much history to the tour. Apart from four tournaments the entire tour was rebuilt in the last 15 years. Maybe that's why there's such an obsession with the same few moments in the 80's as it's the only link to the past left. If the Grand Prix or British Open were still around they would have close to 40 years of history to draw on. The Irish Masters at Goffs would be one of the big sporting events here if was now running for 43 years. Even the Thailand Masters would be over 30 years old now.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby SnookerFan

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:The Classic got a few mentions recently when Doug Mountjoy died. For a sport that's often accused of wallowing in nostalgia there's not much history to the tour. Apart from four tournaments the entire tour was rebuilt in the last 15 years. Maybe that's why there's such an obsession with the same few moments in the 80's as it's the only link to the past left. If the Grand Prix or British Open were still around they would have close to 40 years of history to draw on. The Irish Masters at Goffs would be one of the big sporting events here if was now running for 43 years. Even the Thailand Masters would be over 30 years old now.


Wasn't a lot of it Rodney Walkers' fault?

Pre-Hearn, a lot of the existing tournaments had been left to die. We were down to six ranking events a year and The Masters.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby Iranu

I thought the WGP was considered the continuation of the Grand Prix? Doesn’t it use the same trophy, or am I making that up?

I know the Grand Prix “became” the World Open but it doesn’t seem to be seen as the same tournament.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:I thought the WGP was considered the continuation of the Grand Prix? Doesn’t it use the same trophy, or am I making that up?

I know the Grand Prix “became” the World Open but it doesn’t seem to be seen as the same tournament.


We've had this conversation before, the history of the Grand Prix is somewhat confusing.

I think technically the World Open is supposed to be the same tournament as the one the one that the BBC held, because that's what the tournament was last referred to when it was on the BBC. Personally, I have always taken the ITV's version of the Grand Prix to be a different tournament to the one that the BBC had. The same trophy, for me, is just a gimmick.

Having said that, the BBC didn't do themselves any favours with the way they treated the Grand Prix when it was on their channel. The format changed several times before the BBC decided to dump it. Then the next season, a tournament called the World Open popped up on another channel and in a different country. There's very little consistency matching the BBC's and Eurosport's version.

Possibly could consider them three different tournaments, if we're honest.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby Juddernaut88

SnookerFan wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:The Classic got a few mentions recently when Doug Mountjoy died. For a sport that's often accused of wallowing in nostalgia there's not much history to the tour. Apart from four tournaments the entire tour was rebuilt in the last 15 years. Maybe that's why there's such an obsession with the same few moments in the 80's as it's the only link to the past left. If the Grand Prix or British Open were still around they would have close to 40 years of history to draw on. The Irish Masters at Goffs would be one of the big sporting events here if was now running for 43 years. Even the Thailand Masters would be over 30 years old now.


Wasn't a lot of it Rodney Walkers' fault?

Pre-Hearn, a lot of the existing tournaments had been left to die. We were down to six ranking events a year and The Masters.


Did Rodney Walker decide to get rid of the tournaments such as British Open, Classic and Irish Masters?
I never got a chance to watch the Classic and I don't recall Irish Masters ever being televised (could be wrong) but the British open was a lovely tournament which I enjoyed.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Juddernaut88 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:The Classic got a few mentions recently when Doug Mountjoy died. For a sport that's often accused of wallowing in nostalgia there's not much history to the tour. Apart from four tournaments the entire tour was rebuilt in the last 15 years. Maybe that's why there's such an obsession with the same few moments in the 80's as it's the only link to the past left. If the Grand Prix or British Open were still around they would have close to 40 years of history to draw on. The Irish Masters at Goffs would be one of the big sporting events here if was now running for 43 years. Even the Thailand Masters would be over 30 years old now.


Wasn't a lot of it Rodney Walkers' fault?

Pre-Hearn, a lot of the existing tournaments had been left to die. We were down to six ranking events a year and The Masters.


Did Rodney Walker decide to get rid of the tournaments such as British Open, Classic and Irish Masters?
I never got a chance to watch the Classic and I don't recall Irish Masters ever being televised (could be wrong) but the British open was a lovely tournament which I enjoyed.



Well, the British Open definitely was running when he was in charge, then suddenly it wasn't. Not entirely sure about the others.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby SnookerEd25

Juddernaut88 wrote:
Did Rodney Walker decide to get rid of the tournaments such as British Open, Classic and Irish Masters?
I never got a chance to watch the Classic and I don't recall Irish Masters ever being televised (could be wrong) but the British open was a lovely tournament which I enjoyed.


the Benson & Hedges Irish Masters was televised in Ireland, and there is a commercial DVD available of the '89 final - Alex Higgins' last hurrah when he surprisingly bt. Hendry in an epic, having to win the last 3 frames to edge him on a decider. Higgins was very much on the way down by then, and Hendry very much on the way up. Higgins was limping having fallen out of a window just before the tournament. Fitting that his last pro' title came in Ireland.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby Juddernaut88

SnookerEd25 wrote:
Juddernaut88 wrote:
Did Rodney Walker decide to get rid of the tournaments such as British Open, Classic and Irish Masters?
I never got a chance to watch the Classic and I don't recall Irish Masters ever being televised (could be wrong) but the British open was a lovely tournament which I enjoyed.


the Benson & Hedges Irish Masters was televised in Ireland, and there is a commercial DVD available of the '89 final - Alex Higgins' last hurrah when he surprisingly bt. Hendry in an epic, having to win the last 3 frames to edge him on a decider. Higgins was very much on the way down by then, and Hendry very much on the way up. Higgins was limping having fallen out of a window just before the tournament. Fitting that his last pro' title came in Ireland.


I do not wish to watch any matches in which Hendry lost thank you <laugh>

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby HappyCamper

SnookerFan wrote:I've thought of ordering that DVD before, never have.


Need to keep shelf space for Sick Sock Monsters from Outer Space.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby SnookerFan

HappyCamper wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I've thought of ordering that DVD before, never have.


Need to keep shelf space for Sick Sock Monsters from Outer Space.


Image

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

SnookerFan wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:The Classic got a few mentions recently when Doug Mountjoy died. For a sport that's often accused of wallowing in nostalgia there's not much history to the tour. Apart from four tournaments the entire tour was rebuilt in the last 15 years. Maybe that's why there's such an obsession with the same few moments in the 80's as it's the only link to the past left. If the Grand Prix or British Open were still around they would have close to 40 years of history to draw on. The Irish Masters at Goffs would be one of the big sporting events here if was now running for 43 years. Even the Thailand Masters would be over 30 years old now.


Wasn't a lot of it Rodney Walkers' fault?

Pre-Hearn, a lot of the existing tournaments had been left to die. We were down to six ranking events a year and The Masters.


Some of it was his fault but a lot of the damage had been done before him.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

HappyCamper wrote:Grand Prix is still around. Just called the world open now.


Wikipedia does link a lot of current tournaments to be past but I'm not sure. A tournaments identity is made up of a few different things. It's venue, location, time of year, format etc.. Wikipedia has the International Open of the 80's as the same tournament as the current Scottish Open.

Re: BetVictor Gibraltar Open !!!

Postby badtemperedcyril

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:The Classic got a few mentions recently when Doug Mountjoy died. For a sport that's often accused of wallowing in nostalgia there's not much history to the tour. Apart from four tournaments the entire tour was rebuilt in the last 15 years. Maybe that's why there's such an obsession with the same few moments in the 80's as it's the only link to the past left. If the Grand Prix or British Open were still around they would have close to 40 years of history to draw on. The Irish Masters at Goffs would be one of the big sporting events here if was now running for 43 years. Even the Thailand Masters would be over 30 years old now.


Wasn't a lot of it Rodney Walkers' fault?

Pre-Hearn, a lot of the existing tournaments had been left to die. We were down to six ranking events a year and The Masters.


Some of it was his fault but a lot of the damage had been done before him.
ITV seemingly fell out with snooker around 1992/93. At that time they covered the Mercantile Credit Classic, British Open, World Matchplay and shortly later the Liverpool Victoria Charity Challenge. The Mercantile and World Matchplay both ceased in 1992. the British Open moved over to Sky and was shifted in the calendar to the start of the season in 1999 and then discontinued in 2002. The Charity Challenge ceased in 1999.