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Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby D4P

Holden Chinaski wrote:It would be an interesting stat, actually. Selby must be well in there.


% of shots taking 50 seconds or longer:

19-20: Selby 100%
18-19: Selby 100%
17-18: Selby 100%
16-17: Selby 100%
15-16: Selby 100%
14-15: Selby 100%
13-14: Selby 100%
12-13: Selby 100%
11-12: Selby 100%
10-11: Selby 100%

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Holden Chinaski

D4P wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:It would be an interesting stat, actually. Selby must be well in there.


% of shots taking 50 seconds or longer:

19-20: Selby 100%
18-19: Selby 100%
17-18: Selby 100%
16-17: Selby 100%
15-16: Selby 100%
14-15: Selby 100%
13-14: Selby 100%
12-13: Selby 100%
11-12: Selby 100%
10-11: Selby 100%

:chuckle:

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Dan-cat

Andre147 wrote:Turning point of the final, more than the last frame of the 1st session, was the 15th, when Kyren knocked a red in after potting the blue, and the last frame of that 3rd session, when he really should have potted the final red.

Ronnie said post match those 2 particular frames made all the difference. He was all at sea, Kyren was looking as strong as ever, had he won those 2 frames he would be the one leading, 9-8.

Even if Kyren managed to win only one of them, he would only trail 9-8 instead of 10-7.

This made all the difference, and in the 3rd session Ronnie played focused, not brilliant, but got the job done.


He won the 3rd session 7 - 1 after finally finding his cue action.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Dan-cat

Holden Chinaski wrote:
rekoons wrote:another interesting observation is that over the course of 20 years the number 10 percentage has been rising smoothly, and faster than the # 1 spot, suggesting the top of the field is getting more competitive.

Very interesting.


Puts paid to weak era nonsense... or does it?

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Iranu

Dan-cat wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
rekoons wrote:another interesting observation is that over the course of 20 years the number 10 percentage has been rising smoothly, and faster than the # 1 spot, suggesting the top of the field is getting more competitive.

Very interesting.


Puts paid to weak era nonsense... or does it?

He’s given more opportunities to score because of weak opposition ;-)

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Juddernaut88

Dan-cat wrote:It's not called Breakbuilding, its called Snooker.

I want to see the stats for most succesful snookers laid. Then the true GOAT will be revealed.

<laugh>


I'm intrigued to know what the stat is for who has won the most number of frames needing Snookers. I'd love to see what the top 10 list of that is.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Fred the Chopper

Non stat:

Major, matured snooker opponents during majority of career when they won most titles:

A: Parrot, Doherty, Davis, White, Taylor

B: Murphy, Higgins, Williams, Trump, Robertson, Ding, Selby, Hawk, Wilson

If you had decent talent and fancied a career in snooker, which era would you choose to improve your chances of success?!

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Fred the Chopper wrote:[

Agree with much of what you've said except for Hamilton whose speed yesterday and in gaining the poles record, possibly the wins record and a 7th this year sets him apart from everyone. He's also brilliant in the wet, better than Senna. He's also a racer when needed and clean too, as much as anyone in F1 can be. Senna was a pretty dirty driver. Moss rated Fangio, Senna and Hamilton as his top 3 of all time, in no particular order. It's hard to compare them, as their circumstances, eras and lives/opps were very different.

Hamilton simply won as much cause he had the best car.

Senna was far better in the wet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOEorrE4mY


Incase you haven't seen this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYx9wM5zKkw
Here's Ronnie reviewing Senna in the Crucible Theatre.
It's funny he's compared with Senna and Murphy's Prost (The institution guy haha) (This was in 2016, which would be leading up to that clash of theirs in 2017 which was the climax thus far of their feud. That beef alone was the most excited I was to see a snooker match for the wrong reasons hehe) (I haven't forgotten how furious Ronnie was to lose in Champion of Champions against Murphy, he's made use of his boxing on the table many times....)

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

SnookerFan wrote:
Georgi1914 wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Selby is an incredible player. I don't like him but he's brilliant. Especially in the mental aspect of the game he's incredibly strong. A master tactician with lots of bottle. I do rate Higgins a bit higher.

Crazy how people want to undermine his ability at every opportunity.


I completely agree with you guys. Of course Selby is nowhere near Ronnie's talent, but his whole package (snooker abilities + mental toughness) makes him a fierce competitor. My personal opinion - he will retire one day as a greater player than John Higgins.


That's a big statement.

Age is not on Selby's side, and he's not the player he was a couple of years ago.


I despise Selby as a player but that's MEAN! I'm his age so age is not on my side either then hmph! :mood: (I'm half a year younger than him actually, happen to share Ronnie's birthday of December 5th and yeah how sucky Ronnie got beat by Ding on his last birthday for the UK major)

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby rekoons

Dan-cat wrote:Rekoons, seriously... This is a brilliant extrapolation you've done from the available stats. To spot this.

You must be bouyed by your World Champs victory.


What exactly does ‘bouyed’ mean? English isn’t my mother tongue...

(Serious question)

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Prop

rekoons wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Rekoons, seriously... This is a brilliant extrapolation you've done from the available stats. To spot this.

You must be bouyed by your World Champs victory.


What exactly does ‘bouyed’ mean? English isn’t my mother tongue...

(Serious question)


Encouraged, boosted, pleased etc.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Johnny Bravo

McManusFan wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
rekoons wrote:if that graph is true, that's crazy. No Trump, williams or even Ding or Selby in there??

Selby can never be in there, he was never that heavy of a scorer.


Did you not watch any of Selby's stuff during 2016 and 2017? He was a very heavy scorer during that period, which is probably why he managed to win so many titles at that time.

He was a heavy scorer, but not the heaviest.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerArcher

That's damn annoying, typed a long post for the system to lose it... Anyway I suppose much of it was just repeating what others have said but be proud the few that never lost faith in Ronnie! I never did, I posted here 2 years back on a high after Williams beat that ogre Higgins, nearly typed Biggins hehe... I saw the optimism for Ronnie winning again wasn't high at all (Just as well I didn't visit here last year with Ronnie losing first round to an amateur! Oh that was so annoying with the final Hazel saying Higgins has pulled a feat that's not been seen since the days of Jimmy, Davis and Hendry, 3 world finals... HMPH she was there when Ronnie nearly did a threepeat! That was only a few years ago!) that thread one guy (Badsnookerpundit, (player. I say pundit as he had a terrible GOAT list, placing Selby first and Ronnie AFTER Higgins?! Unless I remembered wrong) said no one cares, close the thread! Sacrilege!) Clearly people cared now! Anyway I didn't doubt he'd make another at least 6 is what I thought he'd end his career on (He's hinted as such, he said once 200years later or however long in the future it was on his tombstone Ronnie O'Sullivan, one of the 5 GOATs of snooker, 6 world titles)
(He also said in an interview before 2018 world championships he's aiming for 2 world titles in the next 8 years, i.e. he'll be 50 by then), is disappointing how many people wrote him off with his lack of success over the years there, my outlook was to start panicking if he hasn't made it by 2022, as he took 9 seasons to get his first.

Notice his win pattern? 2001 2004, 2008, 2012 2013, 2020

Every leap year besides 2016 he's won it! So if he hadn't had won it this year then it would be a cause for concern. He says he doesn't care etc but seems he does at least subconsciously about records and titles, if you saw his documentary in 2012 after he won his 4th title he ended it saying don't ever doubt him or say when he's done, he'll tell you when he's done! If you doubt him he'll feel he has something to prove.
After Bingham beat him unexpectedly they came up with newspaper headlines saying he may have numbered days in the Crucible (Haters, actually I remembered now it was after Barry Hawkins beat him 2016 they said that) and not the same but he took an extended break and won the 2016 Masters aged 40.
Trump said Ronnie's era's over he won't win anymore tournaments and haha 2017-18 he won 5!

Someone said they think it was his strategy for winning this, missing the Masters and playing less, yes load management has worked for him as said for Masters, plus his last world title was won that way too. Not intended for 2013 but he won it anyhow. We all remember the Breakaway tour stuff too, the ranking points system is stupid anyway so inconsistent basing it on the prize money. Such a system favours younger players without commitments so much more such as Trump, as much of the ranking points is from China, which Ronnie misses a lot of. I'm not against ranking points grinded from tournaments as such but with how erratic they can be between different years, not to mention the UK is meant to be the most prestigious ranking event except for the world championship, yet it doesn't carry the most points as it's not as big on prize money as a couple of overseas tournaments.
Anyhow I never believed Thepchaiya to be the fastest player it's definitely circumstantial as he doesn't go deep into tournaments often nor is he much of a tactical player, certainly Ronnie in his youth was faster when they didn't have shotclocks or they rarely timed them. Funny Ronnie broke a time record against him and even with them displaying the fastest time stats of the season with Ronnie on top they still were lauding Thepchaiya as the fastest?!

The Selby semifinal was epic, 1st session Ronnie didn't do what he should have, he landed the KO blow but on the table, no on Selby.... As with 2017's SF vs Ding, Selby clawed back and turned it to 7-5 so I wasn't happy and Ronnie played poorly with some bad luck, session 3 oh dear... From that session I would say if Selby won he deserved it overall and I despise him! However session 4 with Ronnie smiling and laughing, as if he's the jester, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOjzADJxihA

I'd compare it to this classic battle from Wheels on meals, Jackie Chan vs Benny the Jet. Fight starts in Ronnie/Jackie's favour but he's then losing and wound up, he takes a different approach at the end, loosens up finding his rhythm and wins! Frames 31-32 was incredible! Frame 33 I feared the worst when he didn't finish Selby off but what a snooker escape! I remember the cracker they had last season in North Ireland, which came down to a fluked snooker by Selby which Ronnie broke with a fluked pot. I wanted to sese Selby's gutted reaction but never saw it, however I get to see it here and I was very disappointed with him. I've disliked him hated him even since 2016 as a player and his vulture ways plus negative play but damn I assumed he's a decent bloke off the table but no he's a sore loser. 'Disrespectful to me and the game'... He could have congratulated Ronnie for the pressure pots and breaks to get to a decider, those hit and hopes worked in Selby's favour! No class at all, if it had been Ronnie moaning Selby disrespected him with his way of play I'm sure people would be all over him with criticism, even fines from the snooker body! Selby the Detester from Leicester >-(

Total contrast to the class between Kyren and McGill, will say though McGill's attitude sucked with chalkgate. I wanted him to lose for that. I have a feeling had the finalists been different McGill would have beat Selby again as he did 2015, he was his Crucible curse hehe.

Kyren is a good lad, I wanted him to become world champion before Trump as Trump's arrogance has made me like him less, anyhow he was beaten hopefully another Trump from the USA will be beaten too this year!

The final was low standard yes I sadly admit, those semi finals took a lot out of them, I expected Ronnie to beat Hendry's 16 centuries record he was on track to if he was playing well for the final but oh well, table issues affected things too. I knew somehow Kyren will fail to pot that red in the evening session 2. Still give credit to Ronnie being able to make some great counterclearances, not his main way of playing I know. He made really good ones vs Selby also.

Near the end of session 3 Kyren did a 2007 Masters Ding hehe but without the crying, thinking it's over when it isn't. (Well different he thought session over, not game over)... Ronnie's victory speech was definitely not what I expected I was sure he'd be down on his performance as he really struggled at times but he kept it cool. Funny how when talking about greats he said Williams just about but no mention of Selby hehe. (Selby is arguably greater as much as I hate to say it, has more TCs by one Masters)
At least no nosebleed for Kyren this time.

Xie Xie to the Rocket for this delightful outcome! No it wasn't a good standard it's the worst he's played in a world final at least session 2 was (His last masters win wasn't convincing either, certainly a lot worse than 2016) but anyhow it's a win! So if the pattern holds up by 2024 he'll be at least on 7 world titles! :happy:

I had a sneaky feeling the lockdown would benefit him as he's the natural talent, having less matches etc would favour the more gifted players over the grindy ones. Now all that needs to happen sports wise for me to cap off this year is for LeBron James to win the NBA! He and Ronnie both defended their titles in 2012,13 and made it to the finals for 2014. Also Ronnie often gets results when he has a big break, think as he plays his natural game, which few if any players have answers for. As such he's using the force, letting go!
It's apparent we don't get the best Ronnie when he plays lots of tournaments, sure he may still win but the quality does suffer, last year he had a long enough break before the Crucible but he didn't respect the game enough vs Cahill and he wasn't well.... Some of his blitzes are from him being unwell such as him dispatching Marco Fu in 2018 Masters so sometimes it works in his favour... Not always.

I remember last year there was a thread about Ronnie and sightright, besides his long game getting really good and him being a little more methodical with breakbuilding it doesn't seem to have benefitted him, maybe hindered even. Anyhow he keeps evolving and it's a nice mix he has with offence and tactics.

We were robbed sadly of Hendry's live reaction to him lifting the 6th world title, wanted to see him live in the Crucible when it happened and him squirming,' Oh no he's just one shy of my record!' When your opponent is more than one frame away from winning you still have hope... Haha now he's one away!

As big a fan I am I can't deny Ronnie has underachieved he should have 10 world titles at least with his talent, with his 13 Masters finals he should have more than 7 for sure. Still though no less an achievement to win all of that in an extended period rather than in one burst. Certainly I was bored of Hendry's 5 in a row! Ronnie rathers he dominated in a short timeframe whereas Hendry and Davis would have preferred a longer career winning stuff it's funny but we know Ronnie he kept threatening to retire, had he won what his potential suggested he may have. Good stuff anyhow, the snooker world hasn't felt right since his lost his world title in 2014, sure Ronnie's won plenty in that timespan, 11 ranking titles including 3 UK titles, 2 Masters, 2 CoCs but it didn't feel right that he wasn't even getting deep in the Crucible.

At least that's been put right now! Shame there's no 2020 Shanghai Masters as that's his favourite city and tournament, if it resumes next year then he'll have to defend his world title to go there as the defending world champion!

Xie xie Steve Peters also for rejuvenating his career!

Is Vodka that pesky youtuber Wayne Holmes?
Last edited by SnookerArcher on 18 Aug 2020, edited 1 time in total.


   

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