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Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Dan-cat

Lou147 wrote:
D4P wrote:For people whose snooker idol is Kirk Stevens, you might be interested to know that today is his (62nd) birthday. It's also the birthday of Tom Ford, Basem Eltahhan, and Ronnie Shakespeare, among others.

I remember thinking Eltahhan wouldnt score a point against Selby at the UK and it ended up 6-4


Selby is vulnerable at any time in the early stages.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Acé

Would like to see who's in 2nd place and after

Not that surprised cuz century breaks are great but they're just a bonus, 50+ breaks will show the true colours of an attacking/defensive player because they are regular breaks so when Selby fans harp on about Selby's century count it means NOTHING cuz I bet he has a low count of 50+ breaks

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby McManusFan

Johnny Bravo wrote:
rekoons wrote:if that graph is true, that's crazy. No Trump, williams or even Ding or Selby in there??

Selby can never be in there, he was never that heavy of a scorer.


Did you not watch any of Selby's stuff during 2016 and 2017? He was a very heavy scorer during that period, which is probably why he managed to win so many titles at that time.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Iranu

McManusFan wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:
rekoons wrote:if that graph is true, that's crazy. No Trump, williams or even Ding or Selby in there??

Selby can never be in there, he was never that heavy of a scorer.


Did you not watch any of Selby's stuff during 2016 and 2017? He was a very heavy scorer during that period, which is probably why he managed to win so many titles at that time.

Johnny’s one of those fans that refuses to accept that Selby’s a very good player particularly when it comes to scoring.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Iranu

Acé wrote:Would like to see who's in 2nd place and after

Not that surprised cuz century breaks are great but they're just a bonus, 50+ breaks will show the true colours of an attacking/defensive player because they are regular breaks so when Selby fans harp on about Selby's century count it means NOTHING cuz I bet he has a low count of 50+ breaks

Well, I don’t think century count is meaningless but I agree it’s not the be-all and end-all of breakbuilding. Really, the count should be 80+breaks as that’s what you need to pretty much guarantee winning a frame.

Another thing about 50+ breaks is that the three players on your list are the best ever at clearing up from 50+ behind to win frames, which is often ignored when it comes to discussing breakbuilders. This confirms that Ronnie and Hendry in particular are a different class.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Andre147

Also, between 2009-2011 Selby was a heavy scorer, it's no coincidence he's got so many century breaks.

How could he have that many if he wasn't a prolific breakbuilder? Maybe not so much now, but that's also down to confidence.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerFan

Andre147 wrote:Also, between 2009-2011 Selby was a heavy scorer, it's no coincidence he's got so many century breaks.

How could he have that many if he wasn't a prolific breakbuilder? Maybe not so much now, but that's also down to confidence.


I thought there were some points during The Crucible when he was fairly attacking. Also, there were some Selby Arseplay in there as well.

A bit like when I was at the English Open. His semi-final against Mark Allen took about 2000 years. (And my burger still wasn't ready.) In the final, against Gilbert, who he beat easily, he was a lot more attacking.

Maybe it is a confidence thing, as you say. I've always put it down to, if he plays his best he's attacking, but if he isn't he can mess up the table and find a way to win. Maybe confidence in his game is part of that.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Iranu

Andre147 wrote:Also, between 2009-2011 Selby was a heavy scorer, it's no coincidence he's got so many century breaks.

How could he have that many if he wasn't a prolific breakbuilder? Maybe not so much now, but that's also down to confidence.

Yep. As I said elsewhere, he has around 80 fewer centuries than Robertson. That’s less than 4 centuries fewer per season, which is nothing - especially considering Robbo’s freak 103 centuries season.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:Maybe it is a confidence thing, as you say. I've always put it down to, if he plays his best he's attacking, but if he isn't he can mess up the table and find a way to win. Maybe confidence in his game is part of that.

And the thing is, because he’s better than possibly any player ever at winning playing badly, we see a lot of more him winning ugly than we do most players as he goes deeper into tournaments, which colours opinions of him as a breakbuilder.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby The_Abbott

Juddernaut88 wrote:
Acé wrote:what's the calendar for next season?

i know there's no events in china until 2021 but that's it


It's only updated to the rest of 2020 so far:
September 13-20
Championship League

September 21-27
European Masters

September 28 to October 5
Championship League

October 12-18
English Open

October 23-27
Championship League

October 29 to November 1
Shoot Out

November 2-8
Champion of Champions

November 10-14
German Masters qualifiers

November 16-22
Northern Ireland Open

November 24 to December 6
UK Championship

December 7-13
Scottish Open

December 14-20
World Grand Prix


Ronnie absent until English Open? or maybe Champion of Champions?

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby SnookerFan

The_Abbott wrote:Ronnie absent until English Open? or maybe Champion of Champions?


Depends, I guess.

Do we know where the European Masters will be this year? My guess would be somewhere in the UK. Would they risk going anywhere on the continent at the moment?

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby cupotee

The_Abbott wrote:didn't Ronnie sit a whole year out? and yet he was still top scorer?


But how much of that time was he actually not practising on star’s with other pro’s like trump in the grove or like with bingham on his table , there was a media thing of him forking hay on some farm but he still may have had loads of practise i don’t know

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby Iranu

The_Abbott wrote:didn't Ronnie sit a whole year out? and yet he was still top scorer?

Well it’s per frame and considering he won the Worlds it’s not surprising he was scoring heavily during the tournament.

Re: Betfred World Championship Final K.Wilson v R.O'Sullivan

Postby rekoons

I went through the data and listed the numbers 1 2 and 10 % +50 break scorers from the last 20 seasons:

Image

For me this on it's own is enough objective data to state O Sullivan is the greatest snooker player from the last 2 decades.
Otherwise the whole GOAT debate feels too subjective to me.

Who knows where hendry would've been had he been born the same year as Ronnie, they would've pushed each other on to ever become better my guess.

I highlighted some seasons which seem to be more competititve than others in terms of % difference between numbers 1 and 2. (I forgot to highlight 11/12 with Ronnie and Allen, can't be bothered now to change)

another interesting observation is that over the course of 20 years the number 10 percentage has been rising smoothly, and faster than the # 1 spot, suggesting the top of the field is getting more competitive.