Dafabet Masters Quarter Finals: Ali Carter v John Higgins

I believe that Ali thought he had hit the yellow, though it was clear to the TV audience that he hadn't. Desi was probably correct to believe that Ali wouldn't have told her he had hit it unless he truly believed that he had, so it's not hard to see why she would change her call.

That being said, this seems like someone that could and should be reviewed by the referee at the TV screen to make they get the call right...

Just seen it on the news. He didn't hit the yellow.

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:Just seen it on the news. He didn't hit the yellow.

An honest mistake. It could have happened to anyone.

Could they not check a replay if there was doubt?

SnookerFan wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:Just seen it on the news. He didn't hit the yellow.

An honest mistake. It could have happened to anyone.

Could they not check a replay if there was doubt?

I believe they could check replay if there was any doubt. The problem in this case is that the people involved (Carter, Higgins, the referee and the marker) didn’t have any doubt so why would they check replay?

Good old controversy. Ali really has replaced the Ron in the tournament.

He would have to be either brainless or a total moron to "parakeet" with cameras and audience all able to pick up what really happened. I don't believe there was any intent to parakeet.

Not his fault that the ref didn't even bother to check the replay.
Quoting the Ron, Ali probably could do with getting his eyes tested.

He's got a decent record against Murphy, every chance to do some more damage. Would be fun to see him lift the trophy!

Ronnie’s eyesight is certainly better than most. I believe in German Masters a few years ago MJW hit an escape shot so thin that the referee thought it didn’t hit and was a foul. But Ronnie the commentator yelled it out and the marker heard Ronnie and overturned the referee

The whole event was totally weird. It was weird the white missed the yellow by a fraction each way played at that angle. It’s weird Ali blurted “It hit” matter of factly rather than “I thought it hit”. It’s weird the ref took his word for it and changed the ruling. It’s weird Higgins had no input. It’s weird nobody checked it. Did Carter genuinely think it hit? Or was he so shocked it didn’t that he just said “it hit” the same way someone might say “OMG that did not happen”? Guess we’ll never know. It was weird

Scooper wrote:The whole event was totally weird. It was weird the white missed the yellow by a fraction each way played at that angle. It’s weird Ali blurted “It hit” matter of factly rather than “I thought it hit”. It’s weird the ref took his word for it and changed the ruling. It’s weird Higgins had no input. It’s weird nobody checked it. Did Carter genuinely think it hit? Or was he so shocked it didn’t that he just said “it hit” the same way someone might say “OMG that did not happen”? Guess we’ll never know. It was weird

Not really that weird but just an honest mistake? If you watched the replay again, you could see the white did move in a different direction very slightly on the way back, I think that probably made Carter think it did hit. And the referee was the other side of the table so most likely couldn’t see it very clearly so she just took Carter’s words for it. As for Higgins, he didn’t have a clear view of it either and he probably thought those 4 points didn’t make a difference so he didn’t bother to argue otherwise. Watch that table again I bet Carter could hit it a second time very easily even he hit it thicker he wouldn’t leave any chance at all

How can a ref call a miss and then change her mind because the player who played the shot says he hit the ball? This makes the sport seem very unprofessional.

Also a bit strange that Ali didn't say "I think I hit it" instead of just stating he did. I can't understand why the ref or Ali or John didn't ask to see the replay?

I'd turned off by then. (Crap match.)

Seeing it this morning on the news, it was obvious in real time that it didn't hit the yellow, let alone on slow-mo.

Referee should've held her ground, in my opinion. Even if ultimately wrong, the referee's decision is final. You can't give a decision because the player says.

I know snooker players are usually honest about calling fouls on themselves if the ref doesn't see it. But that shouldn't happen in reverse.

Just a good job it wasn't a deciding frame.

carayip wrote:

Scooper wrote:The whole event was totally weird. It was weird the white missed the yellow by a fraction each way played at that angle. It’s weird Ali blurted “It hit” matter of factly rather than “I thought it hit”. It’s weird the ref took his word for it and changed the ruling. It’s weird Higgins had no input. It’s weird nobody checked it. Did Carter genuinely think it hit? Or was he so shocked it didn’t that he just said “it hit” the same way someone might say “OMG that did not happen”? Guess we’ll never know. It was weird

Not really that weird but just an honest mistake? If you watched the replay again, you could see the white did move in a different direction very slightly on the way back, I think that probably made Carter think it did hit. And the referee was the other side of the table so most likely couldn’t see it very clearly so she just took Carter’s words for it. As for Higgins, he didn’t have a clear view of it either and he probably thought those 4 points didn’t make a difference so he didn’t bother to argue otherwise. Watch that table again I bet Carter could hit it a second time very easily even he hit it thicker he wouldn’t leave any chance at all

That’s what make it weird - the white moved bizarrely as if it was trying to dodge the yellow. And even if Carter thought it hit and nobody else knew for sure, it’s weird how events unfolded after that.

Holden Chinaski wrote:How can a ref call a miss and then change her mind because the player who played the shot says he hit the ball? This makes the sport seem very unprofessional.

I think the referee was very unsure herself otherwise she wouldn’t accept Carter’s words so easily

SnookerFan wrote:I'd turned off by then. (Crap match.)

Seeing it this morning on the news, it was obvious in real time that it didn't hit the yellow, let alone on slow-mo.

Referee should've held her ground, in my opinion. Even if ultimately wrong, the referee's decision is final. You can't give a decision because the player says.

I know snooker players are usually honest about calling fouls on themselves if the ref doesn't see it. But that shouldn't happen in reverse.

Just a good job it wasn't a deciding frame.

My eyesight was probably not that good. When I watched it real time I thought it hit too. Easy for people to say otherwise with the help of multiple time slow motion replays

carayip wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:How can a ref call a miss and then change her mind because the player who played the shot says he hit the ball? This makes the sport seem very unprofessional.

I think the referee was very unsure herself otherwise she wouldn’t accept Carter’s words so easily

I understand that, but then she should have checked the replay. You can't let the players decide for themselves. This is a professional sport. Imagine a football game where the ref is not sure if the ball went over the goal line and he just asks the guy who kicked the ball and lets him decide...

When somebody says something with full conviction matter of factly, professionalism can go out the window. Derren Brown has done lots of stuff like that. Something about the human psyche just accepts what it’s told when told with authority.

That situation a few years back when Selby thought the white hit the black and red thought it didn’t... Can’t remember all the details but the ref was pretty hesitant for a while, even though he stuck to his guns ultimately

Sadly, I expect to see Desislava relegated back to the minor tournaments after this. But probably rightly. She was poor in allowing herself to be influenced to the point of changing her decision by a player.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

carayip wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:How can a ref call a miss and then change her mind because the player who played the shot says he hit the ball? This makes the sport seem very unprofessional.

I think the referee was very unsure herself otherwise she wouldn’t accept Carter’s words so easily

I understand that, but then she should have checked the replay. You can't let the players decide for themselves. This is a professional sport. Imagine a football game where the ref is not sure if the ball went over the goal line and he just asks the guy who kicked the ball and lets him decide...

I am not totally sure of the rules but I think the general rule is that if both players and the referee accept a situation then it would keep going as it is whether it’s right or wrong. It’s not really necessary to check replay every time. I think they make this rule as a lot of matches especially non televised qualifiers are without the help of a marker or a replay system so they can only take the involved people’s words right or wrong

KatherineParsons wrote:Sadly, I expect to see Desislava relegated back to the minor tournaments after this. But probably rightly. She was poor in allowing herself to be influenced to the point of changing her decision by a player.

I kind of hope not, for making one mistake. Everybody makes them.

Though, it did make her look a bit easily led.

I have a feeling Uncle Barry will keep her around though. In a 'pretty girl promotes the sport well' sort of a way. It's the sort of thing Hearn would think.

SnookerFan wrote:

KatherineParsons wrote:Sadly, I expect to see Desislava relegated back to the minor tournaments after this. But probably rightly. She was poor in allowing herself to be influenced to the point of changing her decision by a player.

I kind of hope not, for making one mistake. Everybody makes them.

Though, it did make her look a bit easily led.

I have a feeling Uncle Barry will keep her around though. In a 'pretty girl promotes the sport well' sort of a way. It's the sort of thing Hearn would think.

She's a very Good referee, although she made a mistake last night, nothing to do with her appearance, for goodness sake

SnookerFan wrote:

KatherineParsons wrote:Sadly, I expect to see Desislava relegated back to the minor tournaments after this. But probably rightly. She was poor in allowing herself to be influenced to the point of changing her decision by a player.

I kind of hope not, for making one mistake. Everybody makes them.

Though, it did make her look a bit easily led.

I have a feeling Uncle Barry will keep her around though. In a 'pretty girl promotes the sport well' sort of a way. It's the sort of thing Hearn would think.

Exactly. No way Hearn would demote her. And despite this error she’s clearly one of the best young refs on tour. Look at Scullion, he seems to buck up in almost every match he refs - didn’t stop him doing the world final.

Hearn/world snooker don't appoint the referees, no? That's the WPBSA. They have a system for assessing performance, Andre prob knows the details. But I wouldn't think they'd do anything as drastic as that for a mistake.

I've no problem with the referee here. Higgins took Carter at his word, and when both players agree, the referee has always taken them at their word. It's always been thus. Now, whether or not you think that needs to change is a separate matter, I think it should, but as things stand she did okay.

She's a good referee, by the way.

Iranu wrote:Look at Scullion, he seems to buck up in almost every match he refs - didn’t stop him doing the world final.

Good point.

Pink Ball wrote:IHiggins took Carter at his word, and when both players agree, the referee has always taken them at their word..

You're right. I didn't look at it that way... If both players agree there's indeed no problem..

Iranu wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:

KatherineParsons wrote:Sadly, I expect to see Desislava relegated back to the minor tournaments after this. But probably rightly. She was poor in allowing herself to be influenced to the point of changing her decision by a player.

I kind of hope not, for making one mistake. Everybody makes them.

Though, it did make her look a bit easily led.

I have a feeling Uncle Barry will keep her around though. In a 'pretty girl promotes the sport well' sort of a way. It's the sort of thing Hearn would think.

Exactly. No way Hearn would demote her. And despite this error she’s clearly one of the best young refs on tour. Look at Scullion, he seems to buck up in almost every match he refs - didn’t stop him doing the world final.

I do hope that's the case, it's good to see more women refs breaking through. I just feel that rather than just a mistake, it was her weakness in changing her mind due to a player that makes this episode worse.

Would be like a football ref changing his mind on a goal when surrounded by players (memories come back of the awful Ferguson-era Man Utd of late 90s...how they got away with their behaviour towards the refs I'll never know)

What gets me most about this is that Higgins was walking towards the table as the cue-ball was making it's way past the yellow, he would've had the best view of it yet he went along with Alis' assessment, you can see him giving Ali the OK as he walks back to his chair.

Either Higgins wasn't watching the white closely and therefore took Alis' word for it or he didn't want to make a meal out of it, which would be odd in its own right.

Not only did Colin Murray refuse to ask Carter about the foul incident yesterday, but he has also criticised people who call players cheats on Twitter. Eurosport should be ashamed of themselves.