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Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Iranu

LC wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
LC wrote:Last 2 major tournaments have seen judd reverting to form and not producing in the “majors”. Which is a surprise I was beginning to fall for the hype that he was the new dominant force. To be fair he form has been sensational, but he has to retain WC now or the seasons been a disaster? Harsh possibly but true


Disaster? He's won 3 rankers, plus another final.

If that's a disaster then I dont know what a good season is.

The top players judge themselves in the so called triple crown events not winning any this season and only having 3 in his whole career isn’t going to cut it

What a load of rubbish

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby LC

Winning events that probably won’t exist in a few years like home nations, compared to the established major events there is no comparison, that’s what he will be ultimately be judged on, ask Stephen hendry

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Iranu

LC wrote:Winning events that probably won’t exist in a few years like home nations, compared to the established major events there is no comparison, that’s what he will be ultimately be judged on, ask Stephen hendry

Hendry’s judged more on his 36 rankers than his TCs. The Worlds obviously stands alone.

Either way that doesn’t make the season a disaster with what Judd has won.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Cloud Strife

Iranu wrote:
LC wrote:Winning events that probably won’t exist in a few years like home nations, compared to the established major events there is no comparison, that’s what he will be ultimately be judged on, ask Stephen hendry

Hendry’s judged more on his 36 rankers than his TCs. The Worlds obviously stands alone.

Either way that doesn’t make the season a disaster with what Judd has won.


Yes, but what does Hendry himself judge on his career on? The 36 rankers or his triple crown wins? For Judd to have only won three of these so far is a poor return, no two ways about it.

He's still had a good season obviously, but I'm sure he'll be disappointed, and somewhat regard the season as a failure, if he doesn't win a triple crown event this season, especially as he's supposed to be the so-called dominant player on the tour now.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Wildey

I Hate this Triple Crown thing with a passion its all Rubbish However Tournaments Come and Tournaments Go and What makes these 3 Events Special is Every Player since 1977 has had a chance of winning all of them From Ray Reardon to Judd Trump.

List of Triple Crown Winers
19 Ronnie O'Sullivan All 3 x 5
18 Stephen Hendry All 3 x 5
15 Steve Davis All 3 x 3
9 John Higgins All 3 x 2
8 Mark Selby All 3 x 2
7 Mark Williams All 3 x 2
7 Ray Reardon
5 Alex Higgins All 3 x 1
4 Neil Robertson All 3 x 1
4 Ding Junhui
4 Cliff Thorburn
4 John Spencer
3 Judd Trump All 3 x 1
3 Shaun Murphy All 3 x 1
3 Terry Griffiths All 3 x 1
3 Paul Hunter
3 Doug Mountjoy

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby D4P

The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby LC

Wildey wrote:I Hate this Triple Crown thing with a passion its all Rubbish However Tournaments Come and Tournaments Go and What makes these 3 Events Special is Every Player since 1977 has had a chance of winning all of them From Ray Reardon to Judd Trump.

List of Triple Crown Winers
19 Ronnie O'Sullivan All 3 x 5
18 Stephen Hendry All 3 x 5
15 Steve Davis All 3 x 3
9 John Higgins All 3 x 2
8 Mark Selby All 3 x 2
7 Mark Williams All 3 x 2
7 Ray Reardon
5 Alex Higgins All 3 x 1
4 Neil Robertson All 3 x 1
4 Ding Junhui
4 Cliff Thorburn
4 John Spencer
3 Judd Trump All 3 x 1
3 Shaun Murphy All 3 x 1
3 Terry Griffiths All 3 x 1
3 Paul Hunter
3 Doug Mountjoy

That’s what I was getting at, the greatest players of all time are defined by there triple crown wins, as you said these tournaments have ran since 1977 and will continue forever probably, so have to be the yardstick IMO

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Alex0paul

D4P wrote:The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...


Claiming winning the Masters or UK is the same as winning the World Championship is an utter disgrace

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby D4P

Alex0paul wrote:Claiming winning the Masters or UK is the same as winning the World Championship is an utter disgrace


Referring to all 3 of the events as "Triple Crown" events or "majors" doesn't have to imply that they are all "the same", just as referring to the Tour Championship and the Gibraltar Open as "ranking events" doesn't have to imply that they are "the same".

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby SnookerFan

D4P wrote:The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...


I don't mind it. But it's basically something the BBC invented when they went from four events to three.

Like Wild said, at least they have the history.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

There isn't a lot of history on the Snooker tour since most of the events have existed for less than a decade. Having a history that goes back to Ray Reardon, John Spencer and Alex Higgins is something considering most tournaments don't even have Hendry or Davis on their list of winners.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby SnookerFan

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:There isn't a lot of history on the Snooker tour since most of the events have existed for less than a decade. Having a history that goes back to Ray Reardon, John Spencer and Alex Higgins is something considering most tournaments don't even have Hendry or Davis on their list of winners.


True.

But there's not a lot we can do about that. The previous administration dropped the ball and took us down to 6 ranking events a year.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Holden Chinaski

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:There isn't a lot of history on the Snooker tour since most of the events have existed for less than a decade. Having a history that goes back to Ray Reardon, John Spencer and Alex Higgins is something considering most tournaments don't even have Hendry or Davis on their list of winners.

:goodpost:

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Iranu

KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:There isn't a lot of history on the Snooker tour since most of the events have existed for less than a decade. Having a history that goes back to Ray Reardon, John Spencer and Alex Higgins is something considering most tournaments don't even have Hendry or Davis on their list of winners.

The Welsh Open should be more prestigious than it is really, on that basis.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:There isn't a lot of history on the Snooker tour since most of the events have existed for less than a decade. Having a history that goes back to Ray Reardon, John Spencer and Alex Higgins is something considering most tournaments don't even have Hendry or Davis on their list of winners.

The Welsh Open should be more prestigious than it is really, on that basis.


:goodpost:

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerFan wrote:
Iranu wrote:
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:There isn't a lot of history on the Snooker tour since most of the events have existed for less than a decade. Having a history that goes back to Ray Reardon, John Spencer and Alex Higgins is something considering most tournaments don't even have Hendry or Davis on their list of winners.

The Welsh Open should be more prestigious than it is really, on that basis.


:goodpost:

Image

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby SnookerEd25

Wildey wrote:I Hate this Triple Crown thing with a passion its all Rubbish However Tournaments Come and Tournaments Go and What makes these 3 Events Special is Every Player since 1977 has had a chance of winning all of them From Ray Reardon to Judd Trump.



I have to agree. My main problem with it is that it was effectively invented by the BBC to promote the tournaments they cover, to the detriment of all others. The biggest problem with the BBC's coverage is that it is so insular, they treat all other events as irrelevant and only mention them in the context of a comment like "Oh, i think he won an event somewhere recently. One of the Chinese ones maybe", and this from commentators or studio guests who are supposed to be 'experts' on the sport they represent.

Thus, you are left with Ding Junhui winning the UK just before Christmas, and the BBC registering that it's his first 'major' in 8yrs. The casual fan thinks he's done nothing since then, when in fact he's picked up 9 ranking titles in that time.

Hell, you'll have BBC commentators saying they've 'not really seen this player before' when they've been on the tour for years and had some deep runs into tournaments!

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby SnookerFan

Andre147 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
HustleKing wrote:
Wildey wrote:Let's be honest there is no lower ranked players in this tournament they all proven that's why they agreed in It. No real surprises for me.


Agree except for Carter beating Selby. That was a surprise, the others were fairly 50/50.


Beating Selby isn't what it was teo years ago.


BUNGKE


rofl

I just was scrolling through this old thread, noticed my spelling mistake and edited it.

Then I noticed you'd called me on it.

#fascinatingstory #raconteur

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Dan-cat

D4P wrote:The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...


D4P dropping science.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Iranu

Dan-cat wrote:
D4P wrote:The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...


D4P dropping science.

There is no science in D4P’s post.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Dan-cat

Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
D4P wrote:The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...


D4P dropping science.

There is no science in D4P’s post.


It's hip hop vernacular.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Iranu

Dan-cat wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
D4P wrote:The concept of a "Triple Crown" (or a "grand slam") is a very familiar one in other individual (as opposed to team) sports, as sports like golf and tennis have long kept track of the number of "majors" a player has won over their career.

I don't see any reason to resist using this concept in snooker, unless a person is a Ronnie-hater who doesn't like the fact that Ronnie's name is at the top of the Triple Crown list ahead of Stephen Hendry...


D4P dropping science.

There is no science in D4P’s post.


It's hip hop vernacular.

Metaphorically there’s no science, I meant! I don’t know enough about golf to compare but in tennis (sorry SF) the grand slams have been considered the outstanding tournaments for a century, with the exception of the Australian Open which was the black sheep and not always entered by top players until the last few decades. Not to mention that currently they have a distinct format that’s the same between the four of them give or take the odd final set tie break rule (I’m not sure if other tournaments have always been shorter formats).

It’s completely different to the Triple Crown which didn’t even exist until the BBC dropped the Grand Prix. Prior to that they referred to the four tournaments (funnily enough) as the Grand Slam of snooker and the Triple Crown didn’t exist. It's completely artificial and smacks of BBC’s arrogance when it comes to snooker, and it’s amazing the extent to which they’ve hoodwinked fans into believing it’s the be-all and end-all of a player’s greatness.

It’s a factor, yes, as they’re the longest running tournaments and are highly prized by players. But the UK is fast being eclipsed by tournaments with better formats, better coverage and better prize money. Give it a decade and unless something changes with the UK, the Tour Championship, China Open and possibly others will move ahead of it in the most prestigious tournaments list. All it has going for it is its history. Its history is outstanding but can only count for so much (just look at the Welsh Open!)

Is Selby a better player than MJW because he has one more Masters title? Is he buck.

And I’m a Ronnie fan, so the last part of D4P’s post isn’t correct either.

Re: Dafabet Masters 1st Round: Judd Trump v Shaun Murphy

Postby Dan-cat

Admittedly excellent points you make Iranu. I like the idea of grouping tournaments, to make a sort of Major series, but it could be changed to include those other (better) tournaments you mention.

I'm confused now.

Right, Marilyn beckons... will have to think more on this