by Iranu » 23 Aug 2020 Read
badtemperedcyril wrote:Iranu wrote:badtemperedcyril wrote:The fact that Jimmy never won the World Championship should not detract from him standing among the greats. He must be inside the all-time Top 10, albeit with a couple of world titles maybe a couple of places higher.
He was unfortunate insofar he came up against Davis in a final, Hendry in four and a virtually unplayable Parrott in 91. With the greatest respect to Ronnie (or rather his opponents), his world titles came against Higgins (ok - fair enough that was tough!), Dott, Carter (twice), Hawkins and Wilson. It's just bad luck for Jimmy that he was around at the wrong time.
Eh, Doherty and Ebdon beat Hendry, Dennis and Johnson beat Davis. Jimmy should have won at least two of his finals. I think bad luck is an excuse, to be honest.
I wasn't talking about Doherty or Ebdon - the example I gave was Ronnie's final opponents.
I know. But you said Jimmy was unfortunate to come up against Davis and Hendry. My point was they weren’t exactly unbeatable and “lesser” players beat them. Particularly considering Jimmy should have won twice against Hendry. He also should have performed a lot better at the Crucible in the 80s, you’d have to say.
-
Iranu
- Posts: 41387
- Joined: 24 January 2010
- Walk-On: Fort Knox - Noel Gallagher's High Flying Birds
by badtemperedcyril » 23 Aug 2020 Read
Iranu wrote:badtemperedcyril wrote:Iranu wrote:badtemperedcyril wrote:The fact that Jimmy never won the World Championship should not detract from him standing among the greats. He must be inside the all-time Top 10, albeit with a couple of world titles maybe a couple of places higher.
He was unfortunate insofar he came up against Davis in a final, Hendry in four and a virtually unplayable Parrott in 91. With the greatest respect to Ronnie (or rather his opponents), his world titles came against Higgins (ok - fair enough that was tough!), Dott, Carter (twice), Hawkins and Wilson. It's just bad luck for Jimmy that he was around at the wrong time.
Eh, Doherty and Ebdon beat Hendry, Dennis and Johnson beat Davis. Jimmy should have won at least two of his finals. I think bad luck is an excuse, to be honest.
I wasn't talking about Doherty or Ebdon - the example I gave was Ronnie's final opponents.
I know. But you said Jimmy was unfortunate to come up against Davis and Hendry. My point was they weren’t exactly unbeatable and “lesser” players beat them. Particularly considering Jimmy should have won twice against Hendry. He also should have performed a lot better at the Crucible in the 80s, you’d have to say.
Yes - don't get me wrong I'm not making excuses for him. I just feel that people only remember him as being a serial loser when that isn't the case. He won 30-odd tournaments in his career. He also only really "bottled" it once at the Crucible - the black in the deciding frame in 94 and that was the most severe pressure you could possibly be under. As for the 80's - he just wasn't dedicated enough then - when Davis was practicing 7 hours a day, Jimmy was out doing drink and drugs. Shame really.
-
badtemperedcyril
- Posts: 3240
- Joined: 11 August 2020
- Snooker Idol: Jackie Rea
- Walk-On: Sherry
-
by TheRocket » 23 Aug 2020 Read
Was Jimmy unlucky to play in the Davis/Hendry era? Probably. But there is no excuse for not winning after a 14:8 lead or missing a black off the spot in 1994. Like Iranu said. Dennis Taylor and Joe Johnson (much weaker players than Jimmy) beat Steve Davis in the final. And Doherty and Ebdon who beat Hendry arent greater players than Jimmy either.
Matthew Stevens another prime example. Was he unlucky to play in the (probably) toughest era ever? Yes. But no excuse for bottling a 13:7 lead against Williams in the final after he had completely dominated the match.
-
TheRocket
- Posts: 16398
- Joined: 23 September 2012
- Snooker Idol: Federer-ROS-Messi
by Dan-cat » 23 Aug 2020 Read
SnookerFan wrote:Acé wrote:SnookerFan wrote:Acé wrote:All the eurosport pundits are world champions lol
Ronnie - World snooker champion
Jimmy - World seniors champion
Reanne - Women's world champion
their revenue should be sky high next season
Does Neal Foulds count as a pundit? He's in the studio sometimes.
Would classify him as more of a commentator personally
Yeah, you're probably right.
He's on the panel on ITV. I'd say he's one of those rare beasts that can and does do both very well.
I'd go as far as to say that Fouldsy is a snooker colossus
-
Dan-cat
- Posts: 31477
- Joined: 20 August 2013
- Location: Shoreditch, London
- Snooker Idol: The Rocket + The Nugget
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: www.instagram.com/dan_cat
-
by Wildey » 23 Aug 2020 Read
By the 90s Jimmy was in the position Ding is today he felt pressure to win it and he couldn't live up to it
Jimmy went 5 years Watching Taylor, Johnson twice, Griffiths and Parrott reaching finals and the pressure was building on him under that pressure Jimmy did unbelievable to reach 5 finals on the spin.
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64427
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by chengdufan » 23 Aug 2020 Read
One thing about Jimmy that's often forgotten is that he starred in one of the best films of all time alongside Stephen Chow, Legend of the Dragon.
-
chengdufan
- Posts: 11521
- Joined: 08 July 2016
- Location: Chongqing
- Snooker Idol: Xiao Guodong
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: Europe - The Final Countdown
by SnookerFan » 23 Aug 2020 Read
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 150622
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by SnookerEd25 » 23 Aug 2020 Read
They should be stripped of all their tournaments for such a b*llock-brained decision.
-
SnookerEd25
- Posts: 18588
- Joined: 10 October 2011
- Location: West London
- Snooker Idol: Cliff Wilson
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: Play with Fire (Rolling Stones)
by SnookerFan » 23 Aug 2020 Read
SnookerEd25 wrote:They should be stripped of all their tournaments for such a b*llock-brained decision.
But golf though.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 150622
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by SnookerEd25 » 23 Aug 2020 Read
A good walk spoiled.
-
SnookerEd25
- Posts: 18588
- Joined: 10 October 2011
- Location: West London
- Snooker Idol: Cliff Wilson
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: Play with Fire (Rolling Stones)
by KrazeeEyezKilla » 23 Aug 2020 Read
That golf was on BBC2 at 11.45. There were probably more watching that than it on the red button. They could easily have covered snooker to the end.
-
KrazeeEyezKilla
- Posts: 4024
- Joined: 16 November 2009
- Location: Ireland
- Highest Break: 26
- Walk-On: Dazz Band - Let It All Blow
by Dan-cat » 23 Aug 2020 Read
SnookerEd25 wrote:They should be stripped of all their tournaments for such a b*llock-brained decision.
They hold all the cards.
-
Dan-cat
- Posts: 31477
- Joined: 20 August 2013
- Location: Shoreditch, London
- Snooker Idol: The Rocket + The Nugget
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: www.instagram.com/dan_cat
-
by SnookerEd25 » 24 Aug 2020 Read
KrazeeEyezKilla wrote:That golf was on BBC2 at 11.45. There were probably more watching that than it on the red button. They could easily have covered snooker to the end.
And the end was, what, thirty - thirty-five minutes away?
W*nkers.
-
SnookerEd25
- Posts: 18588
- Joined: 10 October 2011
- Location: West London
- Snooker Idol: Cliff Wilson
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: Play with Fire (Rolling Stones)
by SnookerFan » 24 Aug 2020 Read
Luckily, I have the I-Player on my TV, so could've watched it anyway.
(Though, I ended up watching the deciding frame online as I had something else on my TV at 10pm)
But what about people who don't have that? Surely, they could've delayed highlights by half an hour? I know golf fans pay their licence just the same as anybody else, so will want their needs catered too as well. But surely delaying something non-live by half an hour isn't the biggest deal. Maybe if somebody was Sky Plussing it or something it would've been disruptive.
Like I say, I could've still watched it on my TV should I have wanted to, so didn't really matter to me.
-
SnookerFan
- Posts: 150622
- Joined: 13 December 2009
- Snooker Idol: Michaela Tabb
- Walk-On: Entry Of The Gladiators
-
by SnookerEd25 » 25 Aug 2020 Read
hendry_fan wrote:Did,nt watch the Final,but have just seen the scores.
Jimmy was 4-0 down but comes back to win 5-4!,that really is amazing.
It,s a very rare feat that a player comes back from 0-4 to end up winning 5-4.
Without lookin up,2 examples spring to mind.
I can recall where Hendry came back from being 0-4 down,to end up beating Campbell 5-4.
And i think Ronnie once came back from 0-4 down,to end up beating Higginson 5-4,at the German Masters,he actually ended up winning that tournament which sparked him back to life.
Many congrats to the Whirlwind!.
Just looking at the H2H of Alex Higgins & Cliff Thorburn that Wildey posted (on the Ray Reardon thread) I noticed another instance of a 5-4 from 0-4 down comeback :
1982 Irish Masters - Professional Invitational
Quarter-final
(Northern Ireland) Alex Higgins 5(9)4 Cliff Thorburn (Canada)
Frame scores
28-99; 32-94; 20-91; 49-67(52); 92-19; 90(52)-33; 87-43; 94(73)-28; 63-55
-
SnookerEd25
- Posts: 18588
- Joined: 10 October 2011
- Location: West London
- Snooker Idol: Cliff Wilson
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: Play with Fire (Rolling Stones)
by Andre147 » 25 Aug 2020 Read
One of Higgins' big wins against Trump was also coming back from 4 nil down, at the World Open in China.
-
Andre147
- Posts: 41785
- Joined: 09 October 2011
- Snooker Idol: Ronnie and Luca
- Highest Break: 27
- Walk-On: Spies - Coldplay
by Wildey » 25 Aug 2020 Read
SnookerEd25 wrote:hendry_fan wrote:Did,nt watch the Final,but have just seen the scores.
Jimmy was 4-0 down but comes back to win 5-4!,that really is amazing.
It,s a very rare feat that a player comes back from 0-4 to end up winning 5-4.
Without lookin up,2 examples spring to mind.
I can recall where Hendry came back from being 0-4 down,to end up beating Campbell 5-4.
And i think Ronnie once came back from 0-4 down,to end up beating Higginson 5-4,at the German Masters,he actually ended up winning that tournament which sparked him back to life.
Many congrats to the Whirlwind!.
Just looking at the H2H of Alex Higgins & Cliff Thorburn that Wildey posted (on the Ray Reardon thread) I noticed another instance of a 5-4 from 0-4 down comeback :
1982 Irish Masters - Professional Invitational
Quarter-final
(Northern Ireland) Alex Higgins 5(9)4 Cliff Thorburn (Canada)
Frame scores
28-99; 32-94; 20-91; 49-67(52); 92-19; 90(52)-33; 87-43; 94(73)-28; 63-55
Not 4-0 but equivalent i remember once Gary Wilkinson beating Stephen Hendry 6-5 from 5-1 down the only time he beat Stephen in 18 matches the first 4 matches they had went to deciders Hendry won every one.
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64427
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by SnookerEd25 » 25 Aug 2020 Read
I remember the 1991 British open final; Hendry bt. Wilkinson 9-8. At the time assumed it was a matter of time before Gary lifted a ranking title but it never happened for him (though he did win the World Matchplay, which was a prestigious invitational with a BO35 final)
-
SnookerEd25
- Posts: 18588
- Joined: 10 October 2011
- Location: West London
- Snooker Idol: Cliff Wilson
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: Play with Fire (Rolling Stones)
by Wildey » 25 Aug 2020 Read
SnookerEd25 wrote:I remember the 1991 British open final; Hendry bt. Wilkinson 9-8. At the time assumed it was a matter of time before Gary lifted a ranking title but it never happened for him (though he did win the World Matchplay, which was a prestigious invitational with a BO35 final)
it was 10-9 not 9-8
-
Wildey
- Posts: 64427
- Joined: 02 October 2009
- Location: North Wales
- Snooker Idol: Mark Selby
- Highest Break: 25
- Walk-On: the one and only
by Empire State Human » 25 Aug 2020 Read
Thorburn also lost twice from 4-0 up in the space of 4 days in 1992 qualifying. 4-5 to Jason Wallace in the UK, 4-5 to Fergal O'Brien in the International Open.
Losing from winning positions dogged him even during the 70s, although it reached its zenith in the '94 WC match against Bond.
-
Empire State Human
- Posts: 1157
- Joined: 09 March 2019
- Snooker Idol: Trump Higgins Dott Fu
- Highest Break: 2
by SnookerEd25 » 25 Aug 2020 Read
Wildey wrote:SnookerEd25 wrote:I remember the 1991 British open final; Hendry bt. Wilkinson 9-8. At the time assumed it was a matter of time before Gary lifted a ranking title but it never happened for him (though he did win the World Matchplay, which was a prestigious invitational with a BO35 final)
it was 10-9 not 9-8
I stand corrected!
-
SnookerEd25
- Posts: 18588
- Joined: 10 October 2011
- Location: West London
- Snooker Idol: Cliff Wilson
- Highest Break: 53
- Walk-On: Play with Fire (Rolling Stones)
by Acé » 25 Aug 2020 Read
Wildey wrote:By the 90s Jimmy was in the position Ding is today he felt pressure to win it and he couldn't live up to it
Jimmy went 5 years Watching Taylor, Johnson twice, Griffiths and Parrott reaching finals and the pressure was building on him under that pressure Jimmy did unbelievable to reach 5 finals on the spin.
You're right in the last 5 years Ding has lost to the would be World Champion 4 out of 5 times
2020, Ronnie
2019, Judd
2017, Selby
2016, Selby
there's always an obstacle and even if he beats one of them like 2017 he's 90% gonna face another one of those guys
Ding needs an easy draw
-
Acé
- Posts: 1269
- Joined: 03 March 2020