BetVictor English Open Quarter Finals !!

Andy Spark wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:This what we're discussing, right?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aH_Esz9qHRU

Ronnie could retire tomorrow, and I wouldn't miss him. But on first glance, that looks accidental to me.

It's not so much the act itself that is the issue. It's the fact that he didn't own up to it that is causing the consternation. The general consensus is that he must surely have known he touched the red.

Well, I disagree with the consensus. Three reasons...
1) the red was touched well after the shot, when a player is not concentrating. Therefore it can easily go unnoticed.
2) It was accompanied by considerable other movements of environment. Therefore the sensory experience of committing the foul would be far less likely to register.
3) Ronnie has admitted fouls upon himself in more important situations on tour, so why would he not own up to this one?



On balance Ronnie probably did not perceive the foul.

I absolutely disagree. He would definitely have felt it.

As for point number 3, the reason is that every situation is different. You have a split second to make up your mind whether to admit you have fouled or not. I would say that just a few seconds after not admitting it he had already regretted it. He would have thought "I cannot own up now as that would look even worse than just carrying on as if nothing happened."

I would liken it to someone who would never usually steal anything, but in a certain situation and when they are desperate and the opportunity arises their brain tells them to behave in a way that they would never usually. In many ways, O'Sullivan isn't to blame for what happened. People make bad decisions in the split second.

The most faithful and loyal of men have cheated on their partners just because an unexpected opportunity arose and they somehow found themselves having their manhood tugged by a stunning home wrecker in a broom cupboard! And they couldn't find a way out!

Let's put this subject to rest! 'Rest' being the appropriate word!

I hope Mavis makes all of it moot I do!

Wildey wrote:Just a thought Here had Luo Honghao done that against Ronnie i wander what the reaction on here would have been.

Would it be a case of understanding or would it be a case of racism thrown in for good measure as ive seen before on here.

People are Human they make mistakes just remember that the next time this sort of thing happens because it will.

I like to think people on here wouldn't be being racist.

You do wonder if a playet, of any race, had done it against Ronnie, what the reaction would be though.

Alex0paul wrote:Storm in a tea cup. He can be an idiot but I don’t for a second believe he’s not owned up to a foul deliberately

I'm with you. I'm not sure it's deliberate.

If accidental, which I believe it was, he's done plenty worse than this.

Yeah we should all move on.

Is it pretty to see this in our Sport? Certainly not. But nothing to do about it now.

O’Sullivan was asked about an incident in the sixth frame when he brushed a red with his cue tip as he pulled it away after potting a red with the rest.

“I am devastated,” said the Essex cueman, having been shown a replay of the incident after the match. “I was only aware when they showed me in the TV studio. It’s not in me to not call a foul if I know I have done it. I feel gutted.

“It was one of those things, sometimes when you are holding the rest you are watching the white. If there are people saying stuff on social media, what can I do? Most have watched my career and 99% would know that I have owned up to fouls even when there hasn’t been a foul. And I don’t blame the referee either, she is like me, watching the white.”

Luo said: “I didn’t see it – and anyway now the match is gone and it is over.”

(worldsnooker.com)

It just got mentioned on the BBC news.

Re-watched it.


Just seen what Ronnie did. I misunderstood what happened originally. I thought that Ronnie hit the red ball, that a second later was hit by the cueball. I couldn't understand why I never saw it.

It was the red after, whilst picking the cue up. That was a lot more blatant, to be fair.

I can see now why people didn't believe he'd not seen it.

Difficult to know but dishonesty wouldn't be a charge I'd normally level on Ronnie. There are plenty of others I don't like him for but not that.

After sleeping on it i actually woke up with a modicum of sympathy for Ronnie. He loves the game so much that what he did will have killed him inside. He is probably as surprised as anyone that on the spur of the moment he didn't do the right thing and once two or three seconds pass there is no coming back. I could here the hurt in his voice with the post match interview when he offered to replay the match. He sounded desperate. No doubt he was.

I'd say Ronnie had the worst nights sleep he ever had last night and waking up he will not be a happy camper.

To those who said he's done worse that's a load of coddswolop. Walking out on Hendry is nowhere near as bad. Cheating is the games ultimate sin.

I love Ronnie and he's been my idol for quarter of a century. I will forgove him for this. Like i did with John Higgins. Far too much credit in the bank for this one glaring misdemeanour to not stick by him now.

Vodka has it best for me. An accurate summary. It's a bad thing Ronnie did but even thoigh hes from another planet he bleeds red and has proven hes fallible like every other human. I feel nobody will be more disappointed than Ronnie himself and he really let himself dowm but its done now.

I will support him as ever but this tournament has been severely tarnished for him.

I believe Ronnie when he says he didn't notice it. He's not the kind of player to foul and pretend like he didn't know. He has always owned up to his fouls throughout his career. His reaction afterwards says enough. He's gutted.

Alex0paul wrote:Storm in a tea cup. He can be an idiot but I don’t for a second believe he’s not owned up to a foul deliberately

Indeed.

I've seen Ronnie saying he fouled in matches many times when the camera replay showed he didn't even make a foul. He's not the kind of guy to hide a foul.

This is ALL Dave Hendon's fault.

What convinced me that he knew was when the rest strikes the ball, Ronnie's eyes move to where that happened.

That is exactly what happens when you do this as you feel the impact (and hear the noise). He would have seen the reds moving.

I agree it is probably worth moving on and not debating for ever and a day but there is no doubt in my mind that Ronnie deliberately cheated and it gives me zero pleasure to say that.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:What convinced me that he knew was when the rest strikes the ball, Ronnie's eyes move to where that happened.

That is exactly what happens when you do this as you feel the impact (and hear the noise). He would have seen the reds moving.

I agree it is probably worth moving on and not debating for ever and a day but there is no doubt in my mind that Ronnie deliberately cheated and it gives me zero pleasure to say that.

If you have a look at Ronnie's career, all those times he admitted to fouls even when he didn't make a foul... To think he did it on purpose this time at this point in his career... It's just silly. Watch his reaction afterwards, he's gutted. Ther's just no way. We all make misstakes, nobody's perfect. He didn't notice it. It happens. Never, ever, in his career did he do something like this. He has called fouls on himself even when he didn't make a foul. I know Ronnie gets a lot of hate, and some love to hate him, but this is not the kind of player he is. There are many, many examples of him owning up to fouls. In the heat of the moment, sometimes you don't notice things. It's easy for us to see things on camera.

Holden Chinaski wrote:I believe Ronnie when he says he didn't notice it. He's not the kind of player to foul and pretend like he didn't know. He has always owned up to his fouls throughout his career. His reaction afterwards says enough. He's gutted.

Exactly. Ronnie doesn’t have the same “internal edit function” in his head that most people have. He tells the truth he feels in the moment by habit; deviousness is not part of his DNA.

If Ronnie wins the tournament then it would be a nice gesture to donate the prize money to that young Chinese player.

Denying what happened because he has never done it in the past is illogical.

He has always played by the rules in the past and called a foul on himself when required. Agreed.

Last night, something happened and he decided not to call a foul on himself. To me, it is clear that he felt the impact, saw a red moved and pretended he had not.

The argument that I have never done something in the past so could not have done it now is lovely but does not stand up.

Badsnookerplayer wrote: To me, it is clear that he felt the impact, saw a red moved and pretended he had not.

The argument that I have never done something in the past so could not have done it now is lovely but does not stand up.

To me, it is not clear at all. Only the player himself knows.

And, if a person shows a certain kind of behaviour for over twenty years, it is only logical to assume he made a misstake when he shows the opposite behaviour for the very first time in over twenty years. (the misstake being not noticing the foul).

Anyone that doesn't think Ronnie didn't notice fouling that red is either blinded by loyalty or doesn't really understand the game. Excuses are a bit pathetic imo.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote: To me, it is clear that he felt the impact, saw a red moved and pretended he had not.

The argument that I have never done something in the past so could not have done it now is lovely but does not stand up.

To me, it is not clear at all. Only the player himself knows.

And, if a person shows a certain kind of behaviour for over twenty years, it is only logical to assume he made a misstake when he shows the opposite behaviour for the very first time in over twenty years.

Agreed. A person's previous good character has to be taken into account when judging them in the present.

Having thought about this more and gone back through what said Ronnie afterwards, I'm convinced, it was an honest mistake which Ronnie had no idea he had made. He may have suspected he touched the red, but that's not his call to make. This is where we needed some strong officiating, but unfortunately the referee and officials let down the players and fans with their ineptitude.

One thing I don't understand, is how the ref didn't notice it...

Holden Chinaski wrote:One thing I don't understand, is how the ref didn't notice it...

Very poor officiating. I actually noticed it in real time myself.

Holden Chinaski wrote:One thing I don't understand, is how the ref didn't notice it...

It was poor from Tatiana.

I think the modern day referees in general get caught up in snooker's myth of gentlemanly etiquette and expect the players to almost ref themselves, and forget to do their own jobs properly.

Chalk McHugh wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:One thing I don't understand, is how the ref didn't notice it...

Very poor officiating. I actually noticed it in real time myself.

I think both Ronnie and the ref had their attention on the rest, which Ronnie was handing to the ref while he made the foul.

vodkadiet wrote:

Andy Spark wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:This what we're discussing, right?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aH_Esz9qHRU

Ronnie could retire tomorrow, and I wouldn't miss him. But on first glance, that looks accidental to me.

It's not so much the act itself that is the issue. It's the fact that he didn't own up to it that is causing the consternation. The general consensus is that he must surely have known he touched the red.

Well, I disagree with the consensus. Three reasons...
1) the red was touched well after the shot, when a player is not concentrating. Therefore it can easily go unnoticed.
2) It was accompanied by considerable other movements of environment. Therefore the sensory experience of committing the foul would be far less likely to register.
3) Ronnie has admitted fouls upon himself in more important situations on tour, so why would he not own up to this one?



On balance Ronnie probably did not perceive the foul.

I absolutely disagree. He would definitely have felt it.

As for point number 3...

...I would liken it to someone who would never usually steal anything, but in a certain situation and when they are desperate and the opportunity arises their brain tells them to behave in a way that they would never usually. In many ways, O'Sullivan isn't to blame for what happened. People make bad decisions in the split second...

...Let's put this subject to rest! 'Rest' being the appropriate word!

I think Ronnie has more integrity than you believe. Ronnie is of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire for services to snooker, he is not a common crook who throws away his values in the moment like an old English slave owner who steals wealth from natives while building the British Empire...err...hang on...bad example.

TWITTER ATTACK!


Marc J Davis
@MarcDavis147
CRAZY to read these
@ronnieo147
'parakeet' comments. 1.When you lift the rest your cue knocks around on the metal/slate. 2. The crowd are clapping (can't hear it) 3. He's in the zone. No way Ronnie's a parakeet. Unfortunate, forget, move on. #EnglishOpen

SnookerFan wrote:TWITTER ATTACK!


Marc J Davis
@MarcDavis147
CRAZY to read these
@ronnieo147
'parakeet' comments. 1.When you lift the rest your cue knocks around on the metal/slate. 2. The crowd are clapping (can't hear it) 3. He's in the zone. No way Ronnie's a parakeet. Unfortunate, forget, move on. #EnglishOpen

Great tweet.

Holden, you seem desperate to defend him but most people who saw it live - and in context - were in agreement. Your faith is admirable I must say.