Post a reply

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby mantorok

Pink Ball wrote:Boys, your issue shouldn't be with pensioners, it should be with the hip youngsters who can build big breaks but couldn't tactic their way out of a paper bag.


The sport is heading in the completely wrong direction, Hendry pioneered the modern game, followed by ROS, MJW & the likes of Higgins, Hunter etc. Now we're going backwards into the 80s game.

Sure, there's still a lot of breakbuilding but in order to win these days you have to be willing to slog it out in a game of chess, and yeah I appreciate that's hardcore snooker but to the audience it drags on too long.

The modern game should focus on long potting and one-visit breaks to create a nice consistent flow to the game, not stop-start snooker with the winner emerging completely exhausted and only claiming victory through intense, boring, grinding late hour safety play.

It's a shame it's going backwards.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Pink Ball wrote:Boys, your issue shouldn't be with pensioners, it should be with the hip youngsters who can build big breaks but couldn't tactic their way out of a paper bag.


I actually agree with this. People seem to act like the old 'uns are doing something wrong in turning up and trying to win. How dare they?

I've always said that it's up to the youngsters to come in, and retire the old guard. It's not for the old guard to stand aside and let the young players win. Nobody benefits from that.

Title wins should be earned, and if the youngsters aren't capable of winning it, that's their problem. Nobody benefits if a player is winning stuff, because their older opponent is taking it easy on them.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Pink Ball

mantorok wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Boys, your issue shouldn't be with pensioners, it should be with the hip youngsters who can build big breaks but couldn't tactic their way out of a paper bag.


The sport is heading in the completely wrong direction, Hendry pioneered the modern game, followed by ROS, MJW & the likes of Higgins, Hunter etc. Now we're going backwards into the 80s game.

Sure, there's still a lot of breakbuilding but in order to win these days you have to be willing to slog it out in a game of chess, and yeah I appreciate that's hardcore snooker but to the audience it drags on too long.

The modern game should focus on long potting and one-visit breaks to create a nice consistent flow to the game, not stop-start snooker with the winner emerging completely exhausted and only claiming victory through intense, boring, grinding late hour safety play.

It's a shame it's going backwards.

Those days weren't all wham bam thank you mam either. Sullivan, Williams and Higgins could all build breaks, but they'd a hell of a safety game too.

Who have the best three players of the generation that followed? Selby, Ding and Robertson - who can all mix it tactically as well as build breaks.

If these excellent young potters and break builders had a safety game, they'd breeze past the pensioners WITHOUT having to be all that boring. But they don't learn.

That's why I'm impressed by Bingtao. He is very sharp and can build breaks - for a 16 year old, his results have already been promising.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby mantorok

SnookerFan wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Boys, your issue shouldn't be with pensioners, it should be with the hip youngsters who can build big breaks but couldn't tactic their way out of a paper bag.


I actually agree with this. People seem to act like the old 'uns are doing something wrong in turning up and trying to win. How dare they?

I've always said that it's up to the youngsters to come in, and retire the old guard. It's not for the old guard to stand aside and let the young players win. Nobody benefits from that.

Title wins should be earned, and if the youngsters aren't capable of winning it, that's their problem. Nobody benefits if a player is winning stuff, because their older opponent is taking it easy on them.


I do actually agree with what you're saying, it's up to the youngsters to put pressure on their opponent the way they know how, whether it's long potting, one-visit snooker etc. They just aren't doing that, then when they lose they're probably being told they must have a good safety game, which imo is BS, Hendry is the best that's ever lived and he never had a safety game, he just put so much pressure with his potting ability.

We need more players like that otherwise the game is going to end up like the Davis era, full of boring grinders and un-entertaining snooker.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby SnookerFan

Pink Ball wrote:Those days weren't all wham bam thank you mam either. Sullivan, Williams and Higgins could all build breaks, but they'd a hell of a safety game too.

Who have the best three players of the generation that followed? Selby, Ding and Robertson - who can all mix it tactically as well as build breaks.

If these excellent young potters and break builders had a safety game, they'd breeze past the pensioners WITHOUT having to be all that boring. But they don't learn.

That's why I'm impressed by Bingtao. He is very sharp and can build breaks - for a 16 year old, his results have already been promising.



Again, I agree.

I watched the Bingham vs Bingtao match from Berlin last week, slightly assuming because he was a hyped up young player, he'd be knocking in all centuries and whatnot. Playing naughty snooker. But he looked very mature in his approach, playing safety when it was required, and playing it well. Not taking on pots because he thought he had to.

Watched his match with Ronnie on ITV 4. Same thing. Went 2-0 down, came back to 2-2 with a quality all round game. Didn't look overawed. Didn't rush shots, didn't make too many incorrect shot selections.

Okay he lost both games, but you could see for one so young he has a real understanding of the game.

I usually don't like getting on hype trains before people have won tournaments, or are doing so consistently. But I am thinking of making an exception in Bingtao.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby mantorok

Pink Ball wrote:Those days weren't all wham bam thank you mam either. Sullivan, Williams and Higgins could all build breaks, but they'd a hell of a safety game too.


Higgins could run rings around the other two in the safety department, Williams was a pure potter, ROS too but with probably a better safety game back then. They're now efficient safety players because they need to be.

It's just a shame that's where the bread and butter is heading, for the future of the sport no kid is going to be sitting at home wishing he could play safety like those guys, nah, they see all the potting and positional play, that's what gets their blood going, not seeing how many times they can glue the cue-ball to the top cushion.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Cheshire Cat

I really like the Chinese contingent of Xintong, Bingtao and Yuelong. I see a lot of talk about Yan, and I agree he's probably the most all-round player of the three, but I think Zhou is one to watch.

Zhao is still so raw that it's hard to make a call on him yet, but Zhou Yuelong is like a cross between him and Bingtao; his long game is cracking and there's very noticeable improvement in shot selection and safety throughout this season, compared to when he defeated Murphy back in that Champion of Champion's match.

In all honesty, I would argue that Yan Bingtao and Zhou Yuelong are two of the most improved players on the tour this season.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby SnookerFan

mantorok wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Those days weren't all wham bam thank you mam either. Sullivan, Williams and Higgins could all build breaks, but they'd a hell of a safety game too.


Higgins could run rings around the other two in the safety department, Williams was a pure potter, ROS too but with probably a better safety game back then. They're now efficient safety players because they need to be.

It's just a shame that's where the bread and butter is heading, for the future of the sport no kid is going to be sitting at home wishing he could play safety like those guys, nah, they see all the potting and positional play, that's what gets their blood going, not seeing how many times they can glue the cue-ball to the top cushion.



I guess me and Pinkball are rare breeds. <ok>

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby mantorok

I remember when Ding first burst on to the scene, he was very much like the new crop we're seeing now, he was potting them off the lampshades, he showed no fear, I don't think he had much of a safety game due to his potting prowess.

Now look at him, another robot like the rest of them, the boy can still play but he's far too conservative now, he seems deflated and bored with the way he has to play now in order to win.

This type of play is dominating the sport too much, Hendry must despise the direction it's heading, and I don't blame him.

Even Hearn can't spruce this sport up, as much as he's tried.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby SnookerFan

mantorok wrote:I remember when Ding first burst on to the scene, he was very much like the new crop we're seeing now, he was potting them off the lampshades, he showed no fear, I don't think he had much of a safety game due to his potting prowess.

Now look at him, another robot like the rest of them, the boy can still play but he's far too conservative now, he seems deflated and bored with the way he has to play now in order to win.

This type of play is dominating the sport too much, Hendry must despise the direction it's heading, and I don't blame him.

Even Hearn can't spruce this sport up, as much as he's tried.


I refer you to the Masters final of 2007.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Iranu

mantorok wrote:I remember when Ding first burst on to the scene, he was very much like the new crop we're seeing now, he was potting them off the lampshades, he showed no fear, I don't think he had much of a safety game due to his potting prowess.

Now look at him, another robot like the rest of them, the boy can still play but he's far too conservative now, he seems deflated and bored with the way he has to play now in order to win.

This type of play is dominating the sport too much, Hendry must despise the direction it's heading, and I don't blame him.

Even Hearn can't spruce this sport up, as much as he's tried.

I still remember the plant he took on in (I think) his first UK final. Two reds spaced about 3-4 inches apart, close to the top cushion. He didn't even think about it, just got down and knocked it in.

I do think the 2007 Masters final damaged his confidence irreparably.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Pink Ball

Ding has always had a strong safety game; Ebdon guided him along his early days, and it showed straight away. When he burst on to the scene he was an all-round player, hugely impressive.

No way was Williams an out and out potter, he was an excellent safety player, and I strongly disagree that Higgins ran rings around Williams and Sullivan in that department. Sullivan was the best safety player in the world for a time in the mid-noughties IMO.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby mantorok

Pink Ball wrote:Ding has always had a strong safety game; Ebdon guided him along his early days, and it showed straight away. When he burst on to the scene he was an all-round player, hugely impressive.

No way was Williams an out and out potter, he was an excellent safety player, and I strongly disagree that Higgins ran rings around Williams and Sullivan in that department. Sullivan was the best safety player in the world for a time in the mid-noughties IMO.


Go back to the 90s and you won't see an impressive safety game, it's only since they've matured. I remember a match, may have been a final but I can't remember, where Williams frequently made 71 left Higgins needing a snooker, and in most scenarios was getting the snooker and pinching frames. Williams didn't use to respect safety, that's why he frequently went beyond 70 breaks, that isn't a player who respects the tactical side of the game. I'm not saying he was a cr@p safety player, but it wasn't his strongest virtue.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Andre147

SnookerFan wrote:Remember when I raved about Lu Ning, after one game? rofl

Is he even still playing?


No.

He won one match v Murphy and that was it basically.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby LC

Andre147 wrote:Nice start from Day, hardly missing a ball. 2-0 up already.

Did miss crucial balls in both frames when leading by over 50 points in both frames, but Murphy botched the chances he had

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Andre147

LC wrote:
Andre147 wrote:Nice start from Day, hardly missing a ball. 2-0 up already.

Did miss crucial balls in both frames when leading by over 50 points in both frames, but Murphy botched the chances he had


Well ok then :roll:

Murphy reduces to 2-1.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Andre147

Day winning this event is the best possible outcome. Especially him now being widely considered the best player never to win a ranker, bit of irony if he won it because only a week ago it was Hamilton who had that tag.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby mantorok

Murphy's another one, used to be all out attack, beautiful when in full flow, now forced to tow the safety line and pretend to be a good tactician when he's clearly better at potting balls.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby Andre147

When Murphy's long game is gone, is whole game falls apart. Unlike Robbo who has other weapons, or even Judd who in recent times has developed a much better safety game and doesnt rely as much on his long potting.

Re: Ladbrokes World Grand Prix Quarter Finals !!!

Postby SnookerFan

mantorok wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I refer you to the Masters final of 2007.


Wasn't there racial insults being thrown?


There were certainly insults Ding's way. At the time it was reported that some of it was racial.

During The Masters this year, I had one of Ding's matches on Eurosport. Foulds suggested some of the negativity towards Ding was from his own fans. Some of the Chinese in were shouting that he should be winning, and that he was a disgrace to China. Now I wasn't there, so I don't know what proportion of it was Ronnie fans booing Ding, and how many of it was Chinese fans getting the boot in. So, now I know this, I'm more reluctant to suggest it was just "Ronnie fans" being racist.

The point I was trying to make though, you could see Ding's confidence being rocked just by that one match. Ronnie was just too good for him on the day, and the fans were all on top of him. Poor lad was only a teenager, in a country where he was only just learning the language. His confidence was dead for a good couple of seasons after that.