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Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

I don't know why you think Hendry doesn't care about the game, its greassroots etc. At the end of the day Hendry being where he is in his career he won't benifit from either deal like the younger players will.

He did say that its the best deal for 'snooker'. Also as you pointed out, if Doyle spearheaded this well then Hendry would obviously know all the details as his close friend Doyle would surely have informed him. Stephen is not thick, he wouldn't put his name to something if he didn't know exactly what it was...bizarre to suggest otherwise.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

This proposal is fantastic news for all professional players and those who would aspire to join their ranks in the future.

The entire crux of the matter for me is that we (the players) will still be in control. John Davison is in effect 'leasing' snooker from the players for the next 15 years.

"We are not being asked to sign away everything we have built up over the years and that we may never see again. Even the most ardent supporter of the other option cannot be happy with that prospect

This is a chance for someone else to maximise the potential of the game, secure the commercial assets, take it forward, secure the future, and then hand back a healthy, vibrant sport at the end of it


Hendry

These are not the comments of a man that doesn't care about the future of the sport. Stephen was slandered 8 years ago when he was falsely accused of trying to take control of the game, now he is being slandered again.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby gallantrabbit

I`d rather refer to Hendry`s previous statement where he said `an alternative bid shows that the game is in rude health`... F... me what a load of cods. The ONLY reason that snooker has taken a slight upturn despite the Higgins scandal is because of Hearn`s hard work and unbending enthusiasm. Rude health it is definitely not in. Does Hendry even know what that statement means?

Jesus I hope the players read boards like this. How could they possibly vote for a last minute stump up which contains no details about anything.`10 rankers, where and how. That`s 4 more than last season just plucked out of the air. Barry is reinventing and building slowly which is the healthy way. Snooker hasn`t had such a buzz since ages. Don`t throw it away whatever you do.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/gene ... 87556.html
Snooker: Hearn turns to O'Sullivan as ally in battle for player loyalty

By Hector Nunns

Monday, 31 May 2010

Image

Barry Hearn has moved to shore up his most prized playing asset, Ronnie O'Sullivan, ahead of a crucial player vote on Wednesday that will decide snooker's future.

World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association chairman Hearn's plans to launch a series of new events, while taking a 51 per cent stake in the game's commercial activities, will be decided on at an emergency general meeting this week.

An alternative vision, revealed late last week and headed by the respected City figure and former Olympian John Davison, has split the game and left some players in a quandary.

Davison has pledged an immediate £5,000 "dividend" to the top 64 players – a sizeable inducement to those struggling on £9,000 a year lower down the rankings.

O'Sullivan, who hinted that he might retire soon, said: "I have very good vibes about what Barry is trying to do, and he could make me see things in a different way. His plans are exciting. He has been very straight with me. He said to me: 'I want you on board. I don't want someone who isn't too sure, I want Ronnie O'Sullivan who wants to play snooker. I can do it without you, but I would much rather do it with you.'"


bold added by me

When in 2002 Davison's Altium deal was rejected, top players were offered money to vote against it. Ronnie and John Higgins were amongst them. Later Ronnie had the honesty and the guts to admit in public he had been wrong about that and that greed had prevailed (he was the only one BTW)

Well John Davison got the lesson it seems.

Now we have on one hand Barry Hearn who actually has concretely secured sponsoring and events already and has put on the table a detailed plan, on the other hand, John Davison (and behind him Lee Doyle) with the promise of 10 ranking events (with no details whatsoever regarding calendar, venues, formats and, for what we know, no guarantees), 6 PTC - probably those that have already been announced and somehow "opened" to players and the public (3 PTCs in Germany are already advertised on Dragonstars site) and that are in fact there because of Hearn's job - and 2 invitational (Masters and PL? well that's nothing new) BUT the promise of immediate money for the top 64. Some players really struggled over the last years with the lack of tournament ...

Players under 64 have no existence in Davison's plan but hey! they don't vote ;)

As I said it will be facts vs greed and I wish I would be more confident. But I'm not.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

Monique the two non-ranking events would not include the PL, that's a matchroom event and would remain separate from any deal proposed. The prize money, costing of staging the event etc would not come from the WPBSA. So we can assume the Masters is one of them, hasn't a clue as to what the other one would be

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

For anybody that wants a direct comparison on the key points of the deal - here is a post by bigbreak on tsf

.
Hearn gets a £3.5M bank balance for £1.00
Davis pays 1.3M down payment and £250,000 per annum for 15 years lease

2.
Hearn wants it forever unless he wants to hand the rights back if it fails. But hand no cash back!
Davison will give it back even it is highly successful, Hearn won't! and Davison will maintain a £2M balance before taking profits

3.
Davidson wants 12% less equity than Hearn's package which is 75%

4.
Davison has increased individual guarantees to the top 64 players by approx 60%
Hearn has scrapped that

5.
Hearn is scrapping the Medical Health care. Davison retains this plan.

6.
Davison plans to pay the top 64 £5,000 each if he is successful with his bid and leave 37% equity in a trust for the prevailing top 64 players at any time. Hearn would sell his balance of 25% to the current top players and take no account of top 64 players of the future

7.
Hearn plans 7 ranking events. Davison, 10 ranking events.

8.
Hearn will take 6 years to provide £5m prize fund. Davison provides this in year one

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

Yes but Hearn's plan is detailed and he has done concrete things, he has secured events and he has secured sponsors. Davison's plan is until now backed by no evidence at all all this is feasible and secured. There is nothing about dates, formats, venues, actual broadcasting.

Plus your comparison is not complete.

Davison's plan says nothing about the top 96-65 players or are they to be "scrapped"? Remember the initial Altium deal was based on a 64 men tour.
Davison's plan says nothing about how the tour will be run: qualifiers, ranking and all.

If Hearn is voted out and this proves only to be paper work and promises as we so often have seen over the years then the game will really be in big trouble. And BH won't come back to pick the pieces on the floor!

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

Well it would be silly for the players to vote for Davison’s plan on just blind faith. That’s not what I am suggesting and I never have. However it does need to be investigated fully by the players, this guy has previously shown big interest in the game, in the past he has been willing to put huge sums of money into the game (more than anybody else ever).

The players now need to ask the questions that Monique mentioned, what, where, when, are the tournaments guaranteed? Will there be sponsors? All these things need answered. However it would be criminal to dismiss this proposal as if there were no answers to the questions.

Both sides are asking a lot from the players, it’s a massive decision for them, especially the younger players who are not set up financially and who are trying to build a career for themselves. All the players that have a vote also have a responsibility to the next generation of talent to ensure that they secure the best deal so they have a sport to come into.

Many people are angry at a new deal being proposed, however I feel this people are more afraid than anything. They had focused their mindset on one proposal and that’s it. However this needs to be seen as a positive thing, people are willing to invest in the sport, a sport that was on its knees before the new year. There needs to be competition for the sport to get the best from its investors. It would be dangerous if Barry were to be to complacent, it would seem that he was and I would be confident that if he knew (when he made his proposal) that a rival bid like this was coming….he would have issued a stronger deal from the beginning.

Saying all this I still fully expect Hearn to get enough votes to secure his plans, as some board members are allowed to vote I would say between 31-33 votes would seal it (consider not all players will turn out).

Its hard to see how he won’t get that many, even though some players have spoken out, Davision will need a big swing to take it away from Barry.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

JohnFromLondonTown wrote:Does Reanne Evans still retain her tour card in all of this? If, for example, BH does not get through? :chin:

Any other losers in this BH v JD thing?


What about the seniors world championship?
What about the involvement of the amateurs in the tour? I see this as very positive as it is an opportunity to bridge the gap between the amateur game and the pro game; it's also a big incentive especially for young amateurs. It would be a shame to lose that.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

That's my point Mon. Its all well & good people being caught up in the financials of all this, because it is salient, but what about the players & the infrastructure of the game....?
Has it become lost once again on people? :chin:

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

With regards to the John Higgins investigation, I wonder how this would be effected by any changes at the top of the game? The people leading the investigation were brought in by Hearn so if he were to go, would they follow? If so would happen, would John still be suspended?

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

case_master wrote:With regards to the John Higgins investigation, I wonder how this would be effected by any changes at the top of the game? The people leading the investigation were brought in by Hearn so if he were to go, would they follow? If so would happen, would John still be suspended?

I don't think it would change anything for John's situation. They can't do anything but suspend him considering how serious the affair is. If David Douglas was to go it would only lenghten the disciplinary process which would be desastrous, for John if he is innocent and for the game as sponsors might lose faith and trust.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

case_master wrote:With regards to the John Higgins investigation, I wonder how this would be effected by any changes at the top of the game? The people leading the investigation were brought in by Hearn so if he were to go, would they follow? If so would happen, would John still be suspended?


lets put it like this John Higgins was against altium so what do you think his fate will be.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Monique

do you know anything about Big Break on TSF.

i find his stance very similar to Ebdon with no real focus of what he wants.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

case_master wrote:Well I read through quite a few of his posts Wild and imo it would seem he wants people to consider the new proposal before rushing through Hearn’s plan

but his main gripe with Hearn was stopping PIOS and this 51% issue now Davidson cant count past 64 and he wants 63% so how does that fit.

15 years is a lifetime in snooker so theres not much difference in that either

15 years ago Stephen Hendry was 5 Times World Champion and it seems a lifetime since he won his 7th..

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

case_master wrote:Well I read through quite a few of his posts Wild and imo it would seem he wants people to consider the new proposal before rushing through Hearn’s plan


Well the problem is they have to vote on Hearn's plan in 2 days time. So the only way not to "rush" is to reject it, right? Because I doubt BH will come back if voted out. I can't help to think that this very short timing (6 days including a week-end) might be deliberate. It does not leave time for a cross examination, it does not leave time to discover what really concretely is behind the promises if anything and it forces a decision... with the manager of the biggest stable and former member of the Sir Rodney board behind the "alternative" bid... :chin:

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:Monique

do you know anything about Big Break on TSF.

i find his stance very similar to Ebdon with no real focus of what he wants.


No, TBH I'm not very active on TSF lately. I'm afraid I'm sick and tired of cue stories ...

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
case_master wrote:Well I read through quite a few of his posts Wild and imo it would seem he wants people to consider the new proposal before rushing through Hearn’s plan


Well the problem is they have to vote on Hearn's plan in 2 days time. So the only way not to "rush" is to reject it, right? Because I doubt BH will come back if voted out. I can't help to think that this very short timing (6 days including a week-end) might be deliberate. It does not leave time for a cross examination, it does not leave time to discover what really concretely is behind the promises if anything and it forces a decision... with the manager of the biggest stable and former member of the Sir Rodney board behind the "alternative" bid... :chin:


Spot on Monique

that is the question every player has to ask himself on wednesday.

are we going to risk Barry Hearn leaving the Sport and possibly taking the PL and Sky with him out of snooker on the off chance Davison could be voted in Next meeting....

we Really could be in a position that a Walker clone is chairman this time next year and everything has passed us by again.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
wildJONESEYE wrote:Monique

do you know anything about Big Break on TSF.

i find his stance very similar to Ebdon with no real focus of what he wants.


No, TBH I'm not very active on TSF lately. I'm afraid I'm sick and tired of cue stories ...


yes im not really in to threads like

Anti Kick Chalk ? - Cuebik
**Post Pictures of your cue!**
Old Ash Cue
Ebony butt losing its shine
New Professional Tips
my new cue


<doh>

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:Not to mention "Post pictures of your cue case" <doh>

But I'm afraid we are going off topic there lol!


yes back on topic before we get pictures of your chalk lol

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

I don't doubt that they could get 10 Ranking events next season. It was only two years ago that there were eight events. The problem is that one of those events was a joke. There may be more money to put on more ranking events but what kind of events will they be. If it's the same events thrown together at a few weeks notice than it won't be much good. For all his faults Hearn knows how to promote Snooker and deal with the sceptical media. Thats even more important than a couple of extra ranking events.

Has Davidson any previous involvement in Sports. Someone on 606 mentioned Moto GP but I wouldn't trust the people posting there to walk my dog.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

http://blogs.bettor.com/Barry-Hearns-sn ... ion-a11836

Barry Hearn’s snooker transformation plan faces opposition

Barry Hearn's drastic plan to renovate snooker is facing a surprising late challenge by Lee Doyle, the chairman and organising head of 110sport’s. This very company is snooker’s biggest player management organization. Lee Doyle’s opposition is followed by John Davison, a city figure who just retired from the venture capitalists Bridgepoint.

Hearn's transformation plan will be discussed at the emergency general meeting of the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association (WPBSA) on Wednesday. In case the plan gets rejected, John Davison's bid will be put forward at the following EGM. Hearn proposes the WPBSA becomes an exclusive rule in the world of snooker into a regulatory and disciplinary authority, in which Hearn's company Matchroom will be acquiring a 51% stake and would pay £255,000 for this share.

"The reason I want 51% is that I don't want to do the major job that is needed to revive snooker and then leave myself vulnerable to a coup from a combination of other shareholders," said Hearn.

According to Davison's plans, he would hold a 63% share in commercial assets of snooker for £315,000. On the other hand, the WPBSA would be content with 37% shares in relation to players' trust. He has recommended that this £315,000 would be paid to the voting membership to the top 64 players as a special dividend in cash soon after the acquisition is completed.

Hearn has condemned the offer. He described it as a "barefaced attempt to buy votes which in any case, under our constitution, was illegal".


While Hearn's bid promises £4.5m in prize money for next season's tournament, increasing the amount by 5% per annum, Davison's long released plans were revealed on Thursday eve. According to the document, he has assured £5m which would grow by £200,000 every year. Davison vowed more ranking circuits but has offered no information on sponsors, dates, broadcasting or venues arrangements.

Barry Hearn, Chairman of World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association, has moved to support his most prized playing talent, Ronnie O'Sullivan, ahead of a vital player vote on Wednesday that will determine snooker's future.

Hearn's plans to initiate a chain of new events, while taking a 51 percent stake in the commercial activities of game, will be determined at an emergency general meeting of the WPBSA this week.

An alternative idea revealed by the end of last week and headed by the former Olympian and respected city figure Davison, has split the game leaving some players in a predicament.

Davison has vowed an instant £5,000 "dividend" to the top 64 players – a significant incentive to those struggling on £9,000 a year lower down the rankings.

Ronnie O'Sullivan, who implicitly announced that he might retire shortly, said that he has very good feelings about what Hearn is trying to do. He further added that Barry has been very straight with him and his plans are quite exciting.

O'Sullivan told that Barry said to him: “I want you on board. I don't want someone who isn't too sure; I want Ronnie O'Sullivan who wants to play snooker. I can do it without you, but I would much rather do it with you.”

Hearn got the chairmanship of WPBSA after his antecedent Sir Rodney Walker, and two other board members, Mike Dunn and Jim McMahon were ousted in December's annual general meeting on a vote of no confidence.

These three ousted board members are among Hearn's opponents, as well as Lee Doyle, who did not come up for re-election but resigned soon after Hearn had objected that his admittance to information was giving 110sport many commercial benefits, particularly in China, which comprised an unacceptable clash of interest.



bold added by me.

The scary thing is that apparantly Doyle's coup is working.
This is Dave Hendon's last twit "Support for Hearn is crumbling...he will have to put in some performance on Wednesday to survive"

TBH I don't have a good feeling. :-(

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

'Barry Hearn's drastic plan to renovate snooker is facing a surprising late challenge by Lee Doyle'.

Well Doyle might have instigated Davision's involvement but he isn't standing to be chariman or a shareholder from this deal.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

case_master wrote:'Barry Hearn's drastic plan to renovate snooker is facing a surprising late challenge by Lee Doyle'.

Well Doyle might have instigated Davision's involvement but he isn't standing to be chariman or a shareholder from this deal.


But you can be certain he will be back on the board if Davison becomes the snooker boss.