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Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

that is the key theres nothing there with 10 ranking tournaments having to work round the PL Matches the ranking tournaments will have to start mid july start of august or another instance where players will have to chose PL or Ranker. which is not fair on players.

this is unworkable in such a short space of time if i was davison just to be fair on him id tell the players to go with hearn just aslong as we can have a vote between what they just played in 2010/2011 and what he is offering in a vote next may so that players can chew the fat on both....as it stands i don't think J D has a hope Snooker players always goes with better the devil you know buck me about 30 voted to keep walker in a bucking Job for christ sake <doh> .

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:that is the key theres nothing there with 10 ranking tournaments having to work round the PL Matches the ranking tournaments will have to start mid july start of august or another instance where players will have to chose PL or Ranker. which is not fair on players.

this is unworkable in such a short space of time if i was davison just to be fair on him id tell the players to go with hearn just aslong as we can have a vote between what they just played in 2010/2011 and what he is offering in a vote next may so that players can chew the fat on both....as it stands i don't think J D has a hope Snooker players always goes with better the devil you know intercourse me about 30 voted to keep walker in a intercoursing Job for christ sake <doh> .


Lets hope so Wild.

Interesting to see that Hearn had talks with Davison last week in a bid to unite their resources and clout for the good of the game but talks broke down.

Makes me think Davison, led by Doyle, 110 etc has since concocted this offer and thrown it onto the table in a bid to spite Hearn.

Shows you how genuine and straight up, Hearn is though when instead of ignoring Davisons bid and trying to blank it out and fast track his way to power, he has actually invited Davison to the EGM next week to air his views on his rival bid. Not many people would invite their rival onto their own patch at risk of being upstaged but Hearn wants everything to be in the public domain and on the table so the players are not voting blindly or without all facts on the table. He clearly sees Davisons bid as being flawed and unrealistic and aims to pick holes in it, whilst rubber stamping his own one which is full of guarantees the Davison one clearly cant offer at this moment in time.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

i can guarantee you one thing Rod Walker and co would have Vetoed it and the bid would never have reached the table on 2nd of june.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... earn-wpbsa?
Challenge to Barry Hearn's plan to transform snooker's ruling body
• Hearn plan to buy 51% of WPBSA to be discussed at EGM
• New proposal suggests revising stake to 63%

Clive Everton
guardian.co.uk, Friday 28 May 2010 19.01 BST
Article history
Image
Barry Hearn wants the WPBSA to become solely a rules, regulation and disciplinary authority. Photograph: David Levene

Barry Hearn's radical plan to transform snooker is facing an unexpected late challenge inspired by Lee Doyle, the chairman of 110sport, the game's largest player management agency, and fronted by John Davison, a City figure recently retired from the venture capitalists Bridgepoint.

Hearn's plan will be discussed at Wednesday's emergency general meeting of the World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association and if it is defeated Davison's offer will be put forward at a subsequent EGM. Hearn proposes the WPBSA becomes solely a rules, regulatory and disciplinary authority, with Hearn's company Matchroom holding a 51% stake.

"The reason I want 51% is that I don't want to do the major job that is needed to revive snooker and then leave myself vulnerable to a coup from a combination of other shareholders," said Hearn, who would pay £255,000 for this holding.

In Davison's plan he would acquire a 63% stake in snooker's commercial assets for £315,000 with the WPBSA taking 37% in a players' trust. He has suggested that this £315,000 be paid "to the top 64 players [ie the voting membership] as a special dividend in cash immediately the acquisition is completed", an offer Hearn described as "a barefaced attempt to buy votes which in any case, under our constitution, I believe to be illegal".

Hearn was invited to become chairman after December's annual general meeting ousted his predecessor Sir Rodney Walker, and two other board members, Jim McMahon and Mike Dunn, on a vote of no confidence.

These three are among Hearn's opponents, as well as Doyle who did not come up for re-election but resigned shortly afterwards after Hearn had complained that his access to WPBSA information was giving 110sport commercial advantages, notably in China, which constituted an unacceptable conflict of interest.

Whereas Hearn's long released plans guarantee £4.5m in prize money for next season's circuit, rising by 5% annually, Davison's bid, published on Thursday evening, guarantees £5m rising by £200,000 annually. Davison promises more ranking tournaments but has offered no information on dates, sponsors, venues or broadcasting arrangements.


bold added by me. This I think, sums it up. It's fact against promised. Facts against greed.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

Not surprisingly Hendry is backing Davison

http://www.110sport.tv/News/550-HENDRY_ ... OFFER.aspx

HENDRY GIVES BACKING TO DAVISON OFFER

SNOOKER legend Stephen Hendry says the offer made by John Davison to his fellow professionals “really has to succeed” if snooker is to go forward.

On Thursday, Davison – who failed in his attempt to take commercial control of snooker eight years ago – returned with an alternative plan to rival Barry Hearn’s attempt to persuade the players to hand over complete control of the game.

“For a sport which many would like to write off, to have two bids on the table to take the game forward shows that there is plenty of life in snooker,” Hendry, the most successful player in history told 110sport.tv.

“Players have been crying out for proper tournaments and more money and the proposal put forward by John Davison certain meets those criteria.

“John (Davison) is a guy with a fantastic track record and huge experience in the sports industry. He has come forward again to lend his expertise and acumen to snooker says a lot about what he sees in terms of potential for the sport.

“He has stipulated the time scale he will work within, which for me is more appealing than just handing all of our assets over.”

Hendry added; “Eight years ago his offer then was rejected almost entirely on the back of ill-informed individuals who spread rumours and lies that myself and Ian Doyle had something to do with the Altium proposal when nothing could have been further from the truth.

“Thankfully this time around, there won’t be that kind of misleading distraction. Ian has retired and some would say I’m going the same way! But this is down to individual players making the right decision this time.

“I want what is best for snooker. No-one can say that has been the case over the last decade.

“But this time, whoever comes out the winner at the other end, there should be a shaking of hands and none of the acrimony that has belittled snooker for so long.

“That said, which ever proposal is accepted has to succeed.“

World No.15 Mark King, portrayed as a ‘wavering voter’ by some insiders ahead of the Davison announcement, is another supporter of the alternative offer.

“I don’t see how anyone couldn’t be impressed by this offer,” said King.

“Several years ago I was one of those who made a wrong call – which proved to be a disaster for snooker – by not backing Mr Davison’s Altium bid.

“Obviously he still sees potential in snooker – and he is investing his money in pushing the game forward. The fact he has come back for another try to save the game shows a huge level of conviction in my eyes.

“All of last week in Austria people were wondering if there was going to be a counter proposal. Now that I’ve seen it, it was worth waiting for.

“We need serious tournaments, not every event carrying ranking status, playing on tables with pockets like buckets where the outcome is just a lottery.”

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

and here is Dave Hendon's view
http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... again.html
BATTLE LINES DRAWN...AGAIN
Just as Barry Hearn’s plans for the future of snooker looked set to receive the green light from players at next Wednesday’s EGM a rival bid has been tabled to take control of the sport.

John Davison, who was behind the Altium bid in 2002, which wanted control of the game’s commercial rights in return for a large investment, is heading a team promising ten world ranking events

In fact, I understand Davison and Hearn met last week and came close to agreeing a joint deal but could not conclude terms.

So, once again, battle lines are being drawn and the players have to decide who to back as various parties tug at their waistcoats, asking for support.

Davison was treated disgracefully by the snooker world when he originally attempted to breathe much needed investment into the game eight years ago.

All manner of misinformation was spread, chiefly that he was some kind of patsy for Ian Doyle, the then 110sport chairman, to “take over the game.”

The players’ vote was tied at 36-36. In the days that followed, Davison formed the view that the WPBSA board members – who would have had their power significantly eroded were he successful – were doing their best to prevent him getting anywhere near the sport and withdrew his offer.

Davison is a serious figure from the business world. He was a partner in a leading private equity firm and thus has access not only to financial resources but also other contacts in the City.

He has named Karl Bistany, a leading sports rights agent, and Joylon Armstrong, a well established PR expert, as two other members of his team.

What is Davison proposing?

His plan is for ten ranking events, two invitation events, six Players Tour events and prize money for next season guaranteed at £5m, rising by £200,000 for each of the next three years.

What does he want in return?

Davison is asking to secure the commercial rights of the game for the next 15 years, acquiring a 63% stake in World Snooker Limited, the WPBSA’s subsidiary company.

He intends to pay £315,000 for this, which will be redistributed as a dividend of around £5,000 to each of the world’s top 64 (i.e. the voting membership). Hearn has questioned whether this is legal.

Davison also states that the WPBSA, which will remain the rules and regulatory body, will have “a strong team of new independent directors.”

What are the pitfalls?

Davison is not some con-artist trying to scoop up snooker’s commercial rights in a big swag bag but there is a lack of clarity in parts of his proposal.

These ten ranking events: where will they be? When will they be? Who will broadcast them? Is there a provisional calendar?

Crucially, who will be the new directors?

Snooker’s problems are not just related to finances but also personnel. Will Davison invite back any members of the previous WPBSA board?

If he does, the game will lose credibility with broadcasters, sponsors and other potential partners. These people were after all rejected by the players less than six months ago.

So what happens now?

Well, Hearn has invited Davison to the EGM to address the players directly and debate the issues surrounding his bid.

This will give Davison the chance to himself answer some of the questions in this post and the many others the players will have.

It will also give Hearn the opportunity to point out the dangers – as he would see them – of abandoning his plan and taking a chance on this last minute proposal.

However, the vote won’t be for Hearn or Davison. If the players want to take a chance on the Davison proposal they will have to vote down Hearn and then vote for Davison at a subsequent EGM.

And knowing the snooker world, it is entirely conceivable that they could reject Hearn, then conspire to reject Davison and end up back where we started.

Davison, and of course his money, would be a valuable asset to snooker. Had he launched this bid a year ago he would probably now be running the sport.

But many will argue that Hearn has started a job and should be allowed to continue it. He is known and liked by the various broadcasters snooker will need to increase its reach (Sky Sports have said they will not work with anyone else) and has a very clear set of plans in place – whether you agree with all of them or not.

With his directness and enthusiasm, he has established a media profile for himself that has seen a thaw in sports editors’ generally negative attitudes towards the game.

These same people would have a field-day at snooker’s expense if he was kicked out so soon after becoming chairman.

It’s a shame he and Davison could not reach an agreement because they would have made a formidable team.

As ever, though, it is up to the players. They will vote according to such a multitude of reasons, and because of various pressures they are put under from those who surround them, that I couldn’t predict the EGM outcome with any degree of confidence.

What I can say, though, is that it will be the most important vote snooker has faced since, er, the last one...

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby NedB-H

Monique wrote:
It’s a shame he and Davison could not reach an agreement because they would have made a formidable team.



That sums it up for me. The big selling point for both Hearn and Davison is that they're not Walker. The big downside for both of them is that they seem to want to run the entire sport as their own plaything taking majority shares in the governing body, which for me isn't the way to run sport. The fact that they'd both rather have "rival" bids than work together in charge of the sport they supposedly care about says a lot about their way of doing things. As for who the players should vote for, I don't think it matters all that much, I expect the end result to be much the same either way.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

wildJONESEYE wrote:HENDRY is talking through his bucking bottom.

Davidson plan will buck up snooker its 2 late in the day...


Was he talking out of his ass 8 years ago? If the players went with him then the sport would not be in this mess.

people getting their nickers in a twist over a rival bid are either stubborn or thick.

At least now there is a contingency if Hearn’s plans are not passed. What would have happened if this wasn’t on the table and Hearn didn’t get enough votes? Who would run the sport then, think about that.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

case that was different how can he say the davidson deal is the best when no bucker knows jack rubbish about it nothing concrete anywhere.Barry Hearn has not failed in anything regarding this and he could just disapere without failing never to be seen again.

mate this could buck up the game same as 2002 and maybe no bucker will be interested in the sport come the final analysis.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

So the game was screwed up in 02 because they didn't vote for Davison's plan and now it will be screwed up if they do?

people should be glad that 1. more than one organisation believes in snooker 2. if Hearn's plans did fall through there is now a back up.

Davision is not a guy on the make, he recently headed an organisation with a 7 billion pound price tag. He is the real deal and he and his plans deserve a bit more respect ,ok>

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

ive read through what Davidson put down and it scares me shitless if barry hearn isnt passed and then davidson plan falls through whitch lets be honest with nothing concrete being done it could easily snooker is screwed.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

if he had put this proposal earlier it would be worth considering and taken serious but come on its to late in the day for this season .

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Witz78

Case,

we all know of your hatred for Hearn and all things Matchroom and its no secret youve spouted anti-Hearn views ever since he took control.

The fact is hes backed up his words with actions, hes talked the talk and walked the walk so he deserves the chance. It seems you hate Hearn so Davison is a better option for no reason at all other than this, yeh he was involved in a company with 7 million turnover blah blah so what i was financially involved as a Commercial Manager with a company building supermarkets for Tesco with their massive turnover etc etc. At the end of the day Hearn is Britains premier sports promoter with 35 years of success and a proven track record behind him, and he was the first to try and rescue snooker in the wake of the Walker debacle so he deserves the chance to fulfil his plans long term.

Hendry and King are a joke if theyve ditched all support for Hearn the minute Davison the 8 year mystery man re-appears. Its laughable frankly

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

case_master wrote:
Facts against greed


What so Davision's offer is greed? The offer that will take no money ulsess their is profit of 2 mill, I don't see that in Hearn's bid.


I never said Davison's offer is greed. I say that top 64 players who would chose promise of money backed only by words versus facts - Hear has actually already done a lot in only 6 months - would be driven by greed.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:Case,

we all know of your hatred for Hearn and all things Matchroom and its no secret youve spouted anti-Hearn views ever since he took control.

The fact is hes backed up his words with actions, hes talked the talk and walked the walk so he deserves the chance. It seems you hate Hearn so Davison is a better option for no reason at all other than this, yeh he was involved in a company with 7 million turnover blah blah so what i was financially involved as a Commercial Manager with a company building supermarkets for Tesco with their massive turnover etc etc. At the end of the day Hearn is Britains premier sports promoter with 35 years of success and a proven track record behind him, and he was the first to try and rescue snooker in the wake of the Walker debacle so he deserves the chance to fulfil his plans long term.

Hendry and King are a joke if theyve ditched all support for Hearn the minute Davison the 8 year mystery man re-appears. Its laughable frankly


if this proposal would have been put forward about february or march before the first meeting on may the 5th then it would be seen as a alternative and well thought through if he could get some concrete figures, venues and these 3 extra Ranking tournaments worked around the schedule but now with the 2010/2011 calender up and running some venues been booked by Barry Hearn its wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to late in the day to be a viable consideration for the coming season.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Witz78

if the snooker players vote out Hearn the media will have a field day thinking what a bunch of muppets the players are for shooting themselves in the foot.

For all the comments ive read here, 606 and elsewhere, especially from player sources, for a lot the 51% control seems to be an issue, yet they are happy to handover 63% control for FIFTEEN years at the drop of a hat to this Davison guy they dont know, all for the sake of a 5 grand sweetener he will give them all. Bribery i say. 5K then the prospect of a shambles of a season with tv deal, venues, tournaments etc to be sorted out DURING the season.

Hearn said it would take him 6 months to sort things out when he took over and that was the case as only recently have things become confirmed, so what chance has Davison of sorting out TEN ranking events at short notice??

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote: so what chance has Davison of sorting out TEN ranking events at short notice??


that what scares me shitless last time we had 10 ranking tournaments in snooker was 1996/1997 season in that time different boards has tried to get more tournaments and failed after long negotiations. i bet Barry Hearn has attempted in his 6 months reign to get more than 1 extra tournament ideally we wanted 8 minimum and he didn't manage and yet John Davidson from outside the WPBSA has managed to secure "10" come on are we seriously thinking that is viable in such a short space of time.

what has he told sponsors "if i get in will you sponsor the cloud coocoo land open or the fairylights masters"

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Witz78

wildJONESEYE wrote:
Witz78 wrote: so what chance has Davison of sorting out TEN ranking events at short notice??


that what scares me shitless last time we had 10 ranking tournaments in snooker was 1996/1997 season in that time different boards has tried to get more tournaments and failed after long negotiations. i bet Barry Hearn has attempted in his 6 months reign to get more than 1 extra tournament ideally we wanted 8 minimum and he didn't manage and yet John Davidson from outside the WPBSA has managed to secure "10" come on are we seriously thinking that is viable in such a short space of time.

what has he told sponsors "if i get in will you sponsor the cloud coocoo land open or the fairylights masters"



plus if Hearn loses the vote next week, he will walk away from the sport he says which would be a great shame after all the great work hes started. Id be gutted for him as hes clearly passionate about snooker and has a history with the sport. Despite him wanting 51% control, this is not really about money with him, more so he can implement his plans without all the humming and hawing that normally goes on with the current set up of players being indecisive on the most trivial matters. All he wants is proper control, sure he makes a quid or two out of it but guarantees everyones a winner, and most importantly the sport will be back in the public domain and general publics conscience which it already has been far more in the last 6 months than the last 6 years before that.

If Hearn loses, then thered have to be a month before the next EGM could be held which would take us into July then even then theres no guarantee that Davison himself would get voted on, Whats to say that Hearn might come back with an even better bid than Davison just before his was due to be voted through, then wed be in a vicious circle of counter bids from the 2 men whod be stuck in a personal battle for the control of snooker, whilst time ticked on and on, with no snooker !!!

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

yes the season could get cut very short and some tournaments canceled the way things are going.

we need to get closure on this so everyone knows IN PLENTY OF TIME whats happening and move on with the snooker.

in a way im pleased JD showing intrest but the timing of it stinks of anti hearn and doing it for all the wrong reasons at the wrong time and very rushed.

and while these 2 business men play tug of war snooker is in limbo.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

Ebdon of course backs Davison. http://www.sportinglife.com/snooker/wor ... ooker.html
So does Hendry, not surprisingly as it is Doyle behind Davison's bid. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/ma ... earn-wpbsa?
King also backs Davison and I expect a few 110 players to follow.
But alas this has also instillied doubts in the mind of players who did back Hearn.

Here for instance is Selby's reaction: http://www.markselby.info/blog.html?#item12957-28130
Sat, 29 May 2010
Rival bid could pose a dilemma
I was surprised to hear that an alternative bid to Barry Hearn’s plans for the future of snooker will be presented next week. I understand John Davison is behind it, and I know he tried to launch something similar with the Altium group several years ago.
This could potentially create a dilemma for me, as well as all the other players who will have to wait until next week’s EGM to discover what Davison is proposing. I won’t be making up my mind until I see exactly what is on the table. I know what Barry is proposing, and I know he would do a great job and that he’s got a lot of support, and that it will be difficult to go against what he has already proposed. But as of now, I’m still undecided. I’m going to wait and see what this rival bid is about and, until then, I don’t intend to put all my eggs in one basket.
You can read more about Davison and his rival bid at Dave Hendon’s blog: http://www.snookerscene.blogspot.com/


I feel I will be crossing fingers and toes on Wednesday!

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Roland

I don't know about anyone else but I want to know who snookersweep and tgntg are

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/A68983285

thegreat has certainly gone down in my estimations - it's hard to take his points seriously when he's being so disrespectful to others especially you Monique.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby JohnFromLondonTown

I've never been a fan of tgntg. He knows my feelings on him, which I've made quite clear to him. It wouldn't surprise me if snookersweep & him are one & the same, seeing how their posts always follow each other's so quickly. If he bothers you Monique, I'll get involved in the debate if you want because he hates me (thankfully) & will attack me for all he's worth if he see's me getting involved. Let me know Lady. :)

Anyway, back to this debate. What does concern me, is with the issue on the commercial rights peice. In one corner, we have BH taking total control for £1 & in the other corner, we have JD taking control for 15 years. The latter, will make the players think...... :chin:

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

yes who are they.

theres a guy on TSF Called big break and hes been dead against hearn because aparantly he works with some players on the PIOS and thats now canceled so hes backing Davidson but i know from lengthy arguaments with tgntg his aim is a 48 man tour now if he is in with some information who knows but a 48 man tour could be the ultimate price if davidson had 63% share.

so how can big break support davidson and not hearn Ive herd nothing beyond top 64 from the davison proposals that just could be reduced very soon after he gets 63% of the share.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Casey

Witz, you are way off the mark. At first I didn't want Hearn voted in, however since then he has proven me wrong. he quickly got about obtaining new sponsors and setting a schedule for the PTC. I was impressed, similarly with the deal he set out for the players, I was hoping it would be passed as there was no other choice.

Well there is another choice and imo it has the potential to be better than Hearn's, taking out 6 of the PTC events and replacing them with an extra 3 full ranking events (to be 4 next season) is much better. The fact the shareholders don't get a penny unless there is 2 mill profit is much better than what Hearn has offered.

Obviously there are a lot of questions to be answered as to were, when and how these ranking events should take place.

The difference is I don't have my head so far up Hearn's ass that I can see what else is going on. So instead of bulling on with Hearn's plan this new proposal should be considered. It might be better, it might not....nobody can answer that until all the details are giving.

Its alright for you Witz, to want the players to bull on with Hearn's proposal but then its not your livelihood on the line, not to consider all options is just plain thick and is the sort of behaviour that got the game in the state it is.

Also people criticising Hendry should remember that he was slandered 8 years ago by several old board members and some high profile players over a similar deal. He obviously knows the in’s and outs of this deal and he believes it to be the best for the game. That ultimately has to placed above any loyality to Hearn (for whom Hendry has had a hand in earning Barry a lot of money) <ok>

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

hendry wants davidson to succeed just to prove he was right all thoes years ago backing him nothing wrong in that but i think his ego getting in the way of him seeing clearly.

if Davidson had come on board earlier then it would be worth considering as it is next season will become a washout if hearn isn't voted in on this.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Monique

Case, Hendry's loyalty has always been with the Doyles and as Clive exposes in the guardian it's Lee Doyle behind this.
I'm not sure at all Hendry knows anything more than anyone else about this deal. And I don't think he's very concerned about the grass root game or what would happen to the lower ranked players.

Re: Alternative proposal by John Davison "Mr Altium"

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:Case, Hendry's loyalty has always been with the Doyles and as Clive exposes in the guardian it's Lee Doyle behind this.
I'm not sure at all Hendry knows anything more than anyone else about this deal. And I don't think he's very concerned about the grass root game or what would happen to the lower ranked players.


theres no love lost between Hendry and Lee Doyle anymore i think its more a persanal thing for him to be proven right that John Higgins and Ebdon was very wrong in 2002 so he sees this as a chance to prove it.