Players Appearance Money

The subject of players getting appearance money for some events has surfaced today after Mark Williams suggested he wasn't against the idea of paying Ronnie O'Sullivan to turn up to more events. There's probably a bit of self interest too but it's worthy of discussion.

I personally think no player should ever get appearance money to play in a ranking event, or big invitationals like the Masters. After the success of the Shootout I think any player refusing to play in that next time around will be shooting themselves in the foot, so not for that event.

For Brazil next season - there's a case. It's not ranking, and I imagine the prize money won't be enough for some to want to travel. Promoting the game in Brazil is a PR exercise and for it to work best you want the best players to showcase the game. So in principle I am not against extra incentive for top players to turn up.

What are your thoughts?

NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS

it should be performance Related not about falling out of Bed

The subject of players getting appearance money for some events has surfaced today after Mark Williams suggested he wasn't against the idea of paying Ronnie O'Sullivan to turn up to more events. There's probably a bit of self interest too but it's worthy of discussion.

I personally think no player should ever get appearance money to play in a ranking event, or big invitationals like the Masters. After the success of the Shootout I think any player refusing to play in that next time around will be shooting themselves in the foot, so not for that event.

-- NO I AGREE FOR BIG RANKERS THAT CARRY BIG PRIZE MONEY AND RANKING POINTS THERE SHOULD BE NO APPEARANCE MONEY

FOR SMALLER RANKERS ABROAD SUCH AS THE GERMAN MASTERS, SHANGHAI ETC, THEN IF YOU LOOK AT GOLF AND TENNIS WHO GIVE APPEARANCE MONEY TO THE BIG NAMES LIKE WOODS, FEDERER TO PLAY THEN YOU CAN SORT OF SEE WHY SPONSORS ETC WANT THE BIG NAMES THERE TO BOOST THE PROFILE OF THE EVENT ETC. SO THERE MAY BE A TIME WHEN ITS REQUIRED, BUT AT THE MOMENT I DONT THINK SNOOKER IS AT THAT LEVEL. THE DIFFERENCE IN THESE SPORTS IS THE TOP PLAYERS ARE EARNING TENS OF MILLION PER SEASON, NOT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS LIKE THE TOP SNOOKER PLAYERS ARE.

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For Brazil next season - there's a case. It's not ranking, and I imagine the prize money won't be enough for some to want to travel. Promoting the game in Brazil is a PR exercise and for it to work best you want the best players to showcase the game. So in principle I am not against extra incentive for top players to turn up.

What are your thoughts?

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ID EXPECT THE WSA WILL BE PICKING UP THE TAB FOR FLIGHTS, HOTELS ETC FOR THE PLAYERS AS THEY NEED THEM TO GO OVER AND HELP PROMOTE THE GAME. THE PRIZE MONEY IS A BONUS AND ADDED INCENTIVE TO PLAY WELL AND SHOWCASE THE GAME BUT ITS EFFECTIVELY AN ALL EXPENSES PAID HOLIDAY FOR THE TOP PLAYERS SO THEYD BE DAFT NOT TO GO.

Sonny wrote: no player should ever get appearance money to play in a ranking event, or big invitationals like the Masters.

There was no sponsor covering the GM to pay Ronnie appearance money.

Thing is, snooker prizemoney is still fighting its way back up and it would be disappointing to see some of the money go to one or two players.

That said, events like the Wuzi classic and the one in Brazil, I think they should definitely have appearance money.

For non-ranking events outside Europe, yes.

Casey wrote:There was no sponsor covering the GM to pay Ronnie appearance money.

Thing is, snooker prizemoney is still fighting its way back up and it would be disappointing to see some of the money go to one or two players.

That said, events like the Wuzi classic and the one in Brazil, I think they should definitely have appearance money.

yes but then that opens some more can of worms.

Players was getting appearance money apparently for the World Series no point saying what happened there.

is the Brazilian Masters going to Grow in to a Major or a Glorified Exhibition if it has no ambition Pay Appearance money if it has Ambition dont.

Wild wrote:

Casey wrote:There was no sponsor covering the GM to pay Ronnie appearance money.

Thing is, snooker prizemoney is still fighting its way back up and it would be disappointing to see some of the money go to one or two players.

That said, events like the Wuzi classic and the one in Brazil, I think they should definitely have appearance money.

yes but then that opens some more can of worms.

Players was getting appearance money apparently for the World Series no point saying what happened there.

is the Brazilian Masters going to Grow in to a Major or a Glorified Exhibition if it has no ambition Pay Appearance money if it has Ambition dont.

i totally disagree

take the Brazilian Masters.

By paying an extra few quid as an investment to guarantee the top players travel to the inagural event and take part, then this gives the event more chance of being a success and becoming a fully fledged ranker in future seasons.

fairly straight forward business sense IMO.

Mate if money is a factor id rather they stayed in bed anyway

Havent they got any decent bone left in their body or its Money Grabing from all angles

ok thinking slightly Different in Invitational Overseas ONLY

How about Prize Money

Winner
Runner Up
Semis
etc etc etc

Plus Something like £500 a frame as equivalent to Appearance money so that players has some other incentive to put up a show.

Better you play more appearance money you get.

Wild wrote:Mate if money is a factor id rather they stayed in bed anyway

Havent they got any decent bone left in their body or its Money Grabing from all angles

its the way snooker will go if the sports to grow into something far bigger.

the top players will be able to pick and choose what events they play in, just like tennis and golfers do, so the sponsors for certain events will offer appearance money as a carrot to lure the top stars to their event to give it more prestige and importance.

Wild wrote:Mate if money is a factor id rather they stayed in bed anyway

Havent they got any decent bone left in their body or its Money Grabing from all angles

Says the Hendry fan

Mark Williams has openly admitted the money means more than the titles to him. I'm sure after last night he wouldn't say that though.

It's hard to know what is fair though and I guess it should come from the sponsors and not World Snooker. Maybe World Snooker could provide end of season bonuses to top 8 players who turned up to pre-agreed invitationals. I think there used to be a bonus for reaching the top 16 didn't there? What's happened to that since the rolling rankings started?

i just find it Bribery

and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth i know it happens but i think its Wrong..

You've got multi multi millionaire golfers and tennis players and footballers etc etc so why not snooker? If you can make millions if you're good enough, how much incentive is that for the youngsters starting out? The fact those who would get the appearance money are already plenty rich enough not to need it may grate on some, but I'm afraid that's what makes the world work.

Wild wrote:ok thinking slightly Different in Invitational Overseas ONLY

How about Prize Money

Winner
Runner Up
Semis
etc etc etc

Plus Something like £500 a frame as equivalent to Appearance money so that players has some other incentive to put up a show.

Better you play more appearance money you get.

that might lead to accusations players were fixing matches to be 5-4 etc so both of them made a few extra quid. the only way to stop that would be to do the frame money like this so only the winners are rewarded.

5-4 - £500 bonus
5-3 - £1000 bonus
5-2 £1500 bonus
5-1 £2000 bonus
5-0 £2500 bonus

so there was a clear incentive to try 100% in every frame and to win the match.

I think what you propose is a bit of a compromise between prize money and appearance money but wouldnt really have the desired effect.

One way you could do things is in an invitational event with say the top 8 players.

appearance money - £10k per player guaranteed
QF exit - no prize money
SF exit - no prize money
runner up - extra £20k
winner - extra £100k

that way rather than spread the 200k prize fund fairly evenly, say to the 8 players that they get a 10k appearance fee then after that the carrot of a £110,000 pay out if they win 3 games and the event is there, so they will all be trying like mad to grab that great top prize. that way the 10k appearance money in effect wouldbt be the carrot to lure the top players, it would be the vast top prize.

infact you could almost just about do away with an appearance fee as the top players would see it as worth entering to try and win that top prize.




But i think

Sonny wrote:

Wild wrote:Mate if money is a factor id rather they stayed in bed anyway

Havent they got any decent bone left in their body or its Money Grabing from all angles

Says the Hendry fan

Mark Williams has openly admitted the money means more than the titles to him. I'm sure after last night he wouldn't say that though.

It's hard to know what is fair though and I guess it should come from the sponsors and not World Snooker. Maybe World Snooker could provide end of season bonuses to top 8 players who turned up to pre-agreed invitationals. I think there used to be a bonus for reaching the top 16 didn't there? What's happened to that since the rolling rankings started?

i dont remember anything about a bonus.

i just remember interviews with the likes of Mark King when they secured top 16 place for the following season, they would comment that it was worth a minimum of 50k to them.

At what point do the Tournaments start paying out these days? In essence, the players, at least the Top 64 anyway, are already getting paid, so all they have to do is turn up & play to get paid.
I agree that Mark Williams saying Ronnie should be paid appearance money is driven by self interest, but everyone knows that Ronnie is only gonna play when he feels like it, if ever, he has all the money he needs, so why should they pay him? Its his drive/motivation that he needs to deal with.
I can only imagine that Barry Hearn will be spitting nails at the idea. I'm sure his take is, 'There's already money there to be earned, its up to each individual if they want to earn any'.

what a total rubbish thread

Sonny wrote:You've got multi multi millionaire golfers and tennis players and footballers etc etc so why not snooker? If you can make millions if you're good enough, how much incentive is that for the youngsters starting out? The fact those who would get the appearance money are already plenty rich enough not to need it may grate on some, but I'm afraid that's what makes the world work.

first of all that would not Inspire Ronnie to turn up anyway unless hes been lying about his Priorities of being a Dad.

second of all thats whats wrong in the Sporting World Sportsmen getting cash for sitting on a subs bench or injured and not enough emphasis on Performance Related Pay for Sportsmen i dont want Snooker to go down that Route of Being Greedy chameleons.

Keep it Real you win you get payed simple as that.

Smart wrote:what a total rubbish thread

Wild wrote:

Sonny wrote:You've got multi multi millionaire golfers and tennis players and footballers etc etc so why not snooker? If you can make millions if you're good enough, how much incentive is that for the youngsters starting out? The fact those who would get the appearance money are already plenty rich enough not to need it may grate on some, but I'm afraid that's what makes the world work.

first of all that would not Inspire Ronnie to turn up anyway unless hes been lying about his Priorities of being a Dad.

second of all thats whats wrong in the Sporting World Sportsmen getting cash for sitting on a subs bench or injured and not enough emphasis on Performance Related Pay for Sportsmen i dont want Snooker to go down that Route of Being Greedy chameleons.

Keep it Real you win you get payed simple as that.

those days are long gone and unless snooker wants to remain a minorty small sport then things will gradually, albeit on a lesser scale head the way they are in football and other sports in terms of the top stars earning vast amounts.

The Nadals, Ronaldos, Woods, etc of this world earn 10s of millions every year in sponsorship, appearance fees and earnings, so if snooker truly wants to become a big world sport, then why shouldnt the top stars in snooker start to earn silly money.

Remember back in the mid 80s snooker was at such a level that Steve Davis was Britian highest earning sportsman

this was when people like Mansell, McGuigan, Lineker, Faldo etc were around.

Could you imagine now, say Ronnie earning more than the modern day equivalents in these sports Lewis Hamilton, Ricky Hatton, Wayne Rooney and Lee Westwood

Snooker slipped badly and stagnated whilst all these other sports rose in popularity.

Its time for snooker to close that gap on these other sports again, and the early signs under Hearn are good

Just where are they going to get the appearance money from? Are they going to scrape it off the prize money?

If this was a big money sport then i could understand it but snooker is currently trying to get ahead so i dont think that it i an option.

I don't know why people are so against this idea, what is wrong with the top players earning more and having a bit of motivation to get to tournaments and perform for the fans ? It's not exactly an alien concept that's never been tried before ...

Bourne wrote:I don't know why people are so against this idea, what is wrong with the top players earning more and having a bit of motivation to get to tournaments and perform for the fans ? It's not exactly an alien concept that's never been tried before ...

Bourne, where are they going to get the money to pay the appearance money? Is Mr Hearn going to pay out of his own pocket? Where do they stop it, ranks 1-16 or will it be just the top few??
If they scrape it off the prize money then why would lesser ranked players be concerned to go to an event knowing that their potential earnings are going to be greatly reduced due to some players getting appearance money. It could seriously damage the sport.

Snooker is currently in a rebuilding fase and still has difficulties finding sponsors so it is simply not feasable right now. If snooker became a very rich sport again in a few years then by all means but right now... A big NO.

Bourne wrote:I don't know why people are so against this idea, what is wrong with the top players earning more and having a bit of motivation to get to tournaments and perform for the fans ? It's not exactly an alien concept that's never been tried before ...

I would rather that money go into the main prize fund so in a few years the players are playing for more than 50,000 Euro

Smart wrote:

Smart wrote:what a total rubbish thread

Bourne wrote:I don't know why people are so against this idea, what is wrong with the top players earning more and having a bit of motivation to get to tournaments and perform for the fans ? It's not exactly an alien concept that's never been tried before ...

yes plus if the lower ranked players see the top stars earning vast sums and having superstar status then they will think, i fancy a piece of that but the only way i can do that is by knuckling down and improving my game and becoming a star name in my own right.

if anything this will ultimately help improve standards as the top players will be keen to remain at the top of the earnings tree whilst those below try to dispose them and become the new stars who can dictate where they go and how much they can earn.

We've all got to make a living haven't we

Smart wrote:

Smart wrote:

Smart wrote:what a total poo thread

Its one of those that will get 1 billion pages and i never comment on

As im not one of the wpbsa so cant make any decisions

Casey wrote:

Bourne wrote:I don't know why people are so against this idea, what is wrong with the top players earning more and having a bit of motivation to get to tournaments and perform for the fans ? It's not exactly an alien concept that's never been tried before ...

I would rather that money go into the main prize fund so in a few years the players are playing for more than 50,000 Euro

as Hearn famously said before he got into power "Mediocrity doesnt deserve to be rewarded" and i agree