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Should the format for the World Championships be reduced?

Yes
2
6%
No
27
87%
Maybe
2
6%
 
Total votes : 31

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Wildey

This question was asked during the WC and the pulse it was about that much then.

so why is it still doing the rounds this rubbish needs to be burried ASAP.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:
case_master wrote:I think the players need to hit the gym a bit more :)

The final needs to start earlier, this tiredness issue wasn't as prevalent when finals were finishing at a decent hour.

Hendry hardly mr universe the Amount of Snooker he played in the 90s did we here him complaining about being tired ?

then the 85 WC Tiredness personified was that any less a match because of players being nackered.

GJ is spot on players being used to do sod all for so long it scares them faced with a proper test of their stamina+talent= The Best.


Hendry in the early 90th was very young. Remember when you were 20-25? You could go out, dance all night and be in office/college/uni next day? Were you able to do it at 30? at 35?

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Wildey

so we have to change the WC to accommodate 35 year olds ....

id rather think along the lines of yes Ding Junhui,Mark Allen,Jamie Cope,Judd Trump and in 5 or 6 years Luca Brecal coming up.

they are the future of the sport and they should be tested the same way their predecessors been and not getting things on a silver platter and easier.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:so we have to change the WC to accommodate 35 year olds ....

id rather think along the lines of yes Ding Junhui,Mark Allen,Jamie Cope,Judd Trump and in 5 or 6 years Luca Brecal coming up.

they are the future of the sport and they should be tested the same way their predecessors been and not getting things on a silver platter and easier.


No that's not what I suggested. It was an answer to your statement about Hendry, nothing more.
Stop reading in my posts what isn't there.

I think there is a case to at least raise the question about the WC format, I'm not suggesting the answer should necessarily be "yes". Steve Davis, John Higgins, Neil Robertson and Ronnie all think something should be done. Shaun Murphy and a few others have complained on more than one occasion about late finishes also. If this game wants to attract young viewers this has to be considered.
Formats have been changed in the past to take societal changes, and television "needs" better notably, into account. I've no doubt some of the then die hard fans were outraged. Now it's the norm. I can't see why it should stay this way forever though as society continues to evolve.
Refusing to even consider changes would be the end of snooker actually. Considering changes and alternatives is healthy. Implementing changes needs, time, care and good thinking. That's why I voted "maybe".

It's easy to say the players have only the right to shut up and play and no one cares if they are dead on their feet ... when seated confortably with a drink and a bite. I'd rather watch 3 sessions of good snooker than a 4 sessions miss fest between two guys who barely remember their own names ;)

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Roland

Monique wrote:I don't see why being snooker players and World Champions doesn't qualify them to have an intelligent opinion, on the contrary. It's not because things have been done one way for a long time they should never change. I think they have more reasons to have a say at this than any fan slumped in their chair at home with a beer!


No chance! If they had their way they would be getting £50,000 for appearance money and would be being pampered left right and centre.

Winning the World Championship is a test of endurance and ability to play under all conditions and sustain a standard throughout 5 gruelling matches. It's blood and guts. To shorten it would be sacrilege in order to pamper to players who

a) have a short attention span (Ronnie)
b) don't like Sheffield (Ronnie)
c) get bored in hotel rooms between sessions (Robbo)
d) appear to be going insane just at the point where they have some power (Davis)


I'm sorry but there is no arguement for change which I have read where I think whoever said it may have a point. None whatsoever. The worst reason is to stop players playing because they are tired and the quality drops. Watch The Hustler where they would play for 24 hours and more without breaks. We want to see how the players cope when they aren't fresh as a daisy. Want be called a World Champion and a deserving World Champion? Prove yourself in the toughest test in snooker that you have what it takes.


And yes, wildJONESEYE learn to debate constructively. It's embarrassing reading your explosions and you do yourself and the forum no favours when you openly lose it. I think you should apologise to Monique.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Roland

For me the best day of the entire event is the semi-final Saturday. You get 3 sessions and usually two cracking finale's. Having a day off before the final would kill the momentum.

Anyway, the main thing and it is the main thing for me, is that Barry Hearn and Steve Davis PROMISED not to touch the "Crown Jewels" and if they go back on that promise, especially the World Championships then they can expect mutiny.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:
Monique wrote:I don't see why being snooker players and World Champions doesn't qualify them to have an intelligent opinion, on the contrary. It's not because things have been done one way for a long time they should never change. I think they have more reasons to have a say at this than any fan slumped in their chair at home with a beer!


No chance! If they had their way they would be getting £50,000 for appearance money and would be being pampered left right and centre.

Winning the World Championship is a test of endurance and ability to play under all conditions and sustain a standard throughout 5 gruelling matches. It's blood and guts. To shorten it would be sacrilege in order to pamper to players who

a) have a short attention span (Ronnie)
b) don't like Sheffield (Ronnie)
c) get bored in hotel rooms between sessions (Robbo)
d) appear to be going insane just at the point where they have some power (Davis)


I'm sorry but there is no arguement for change which I have read where I think whoever said it may have a point. None whatsoever. The worst reason is to stop players playing because they are tired and the quality drops. Watch The Hustler where they would play for 24 hours and more without breaks. We want to see how the players cope when they aren't fresh as a daisy. Want be called a World Champion and a deserving World Champion? Prove yourself in the toughest test in snooker that you have what it takes.


And yes, wildJONESEYE learn to debate constructively. It's embarrassing reading your explosions and you do yourself and the forum no favours when you openly lose it. I think you should apologise to Monique.


I need no apologies Sonny. But I want to be allowed my opinion that snooker should NOT be an endurance test. NEVER for me. That's killing it for me. It's not about short attention span - the guy's won it 3 times - it's not that Ronnie doesn't like Sheffield (he probably likes Sheffield better than most other places, he just doesn't like to be away from home LOL) and that shouldn't count anyway, it's not about being bored in hotel rooms (Neil isn't the only one BTW). It's about quality of what I watch and not enjoying in the slightest to see human beings in pain and again it's not about making a "point", it's just a "point of view", mine as is happens.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Wildey

monique and me understand each other and nothing ever is personel between me to her its her opinion thats fair enough and sorry if i spoke out of turn however snooker is a endurance test it has always been a endurance test.

they tried to make billiards more fan TV friendly that has died a death the die hard fans walked away from it.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:What's this about players being in pain?


Pain maybe isn't the right word. I don't mean physical pain. I mean physical/mental exhaustion to the point it's becoming a real suffering.
Again this is my point of view. I just hate to see that. Just as I hate to see athletes vomiting at the end of a marathon ...
I'm afraid I'm not impressed with pushing oneselves over physical limits. I just find it completely daft and possibly dangerous. I'm more interested in skills. Then again, my opinion.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Roland

Forgive for saying it but it's laughable to suggest it's dangerous to make players play a best of 35 frame match after a couple of weeks or in actual fact a maximum of 12 sessions of snooker of 8 frames prior to that.

If you are the best you will win your matches comfortably and be fresher for the final. This means you may trounce your opponent by a big score in the final but that will prove your dominance and right to be called the best.

Steve Davis 18-3
Stephen Hendry 18-5

How would those results look if they were 13-3 and 13-5 or even 10-3 and 10-5? Not as dominant.

Most snooker stats and snooker matches and comparitive records across the ages have one thing in common in being able to judge - the consistency of the World Championship format.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Eirebilly

sundaygirl wrote:Monique
To be pushed to the limit on a regular basis would be cruel
Once a year for the biggest prize - every world champion would say it was worth it


Bang on there :ahh:

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Roland

It's my favourite two weeks of the year and it has been since I can remember. None of the other sports are having people saying they should change their blue ribband event. The one event in the year which means more than all the others put together.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

I've always thought that the first two rounds should be best of 17/19. You could easily tighten things up at this stage by having four sessions in the first weekend. This way you could have reached the quarters by the second saturday. There are ways of shortening the tournament without changing the core aspect of it. I wouldn't be as opposed to changes as most people here but I don't think there's that much wrong with the tournament.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Wildey

the only player ive seen physically tired after the WC was Parrott in 1989 but that was more to do with circumstance of Hillsborough being a scouser in sheffield that year was tough for him and he did his bit to comfort family of the dead in between playing snooker so the 18-3 that year was down to that.

but in between them rout there's been moments you cant get at any other tournament and reducing that is the start of the end of snooker.

great have other formats around that but reducing everything the magic of the sport will soon vanish.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby onlyevertonjon

In answer to the question no it shouldn't. People will point to ONE World Open being better than what was expected but that is not enough reason to tinker with something that has been tried and tested for years.

I hate how T20 has started to affect test match cricket already but people are just pointing to the success of T20 cricket rather than its hindering test cricket! I have been travelling round Europe this summer and met a number of Aussies, Kiwis, Indians who despise T20 and they are all in their early 20s, some in their teens, who talk about the 5 days of cricket with such feeling. I cant stand this patronising attitude towards youth now that they want everything quickly. If thats the case why does X Factor take 20 weeks, Big Brother 14 weeks. I hate these shows and dont watch them but it shows if marketed right youngsters can still be in to something for the long haul. I have been watching snooker since I was 5 and my memories are of the Worlds. My niece was 3 and watched the snooker with me last week, (it was a colour thing I think) she didnt tire of it.

Start messing with the Worlds and you're going to lose more fans than you gain.

Also I thought the late 90's finals were all great. Saw on this thread that they were poor. I loved them.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby onlyevertonjon

wildJONESEYE wrote:the only player ive seen physically tired after the WC was Parrott in 1989 but that was more to do with circumstance of Hillsborough being a scouser in sheffield that year was tough for him and he did his bit to comfort family of the dead in between playing snooker so the 18-3 that year was down to that.

but in between them rout there's been moments you cant get at any other tournament and reducing that is the start of the end of snooker.

great have other formats around that but reducing everything the magic of the sport will soon vanish.



Very good point Wild. You know I've never thought of that. That the World Champs started that year on the same day as Hillsborough. Just never linked the two events. Would have been great if John had won it that year for Merseyside. I suppose both teams going to the Cup final was that little something at a horrible time for the area.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Monique

wildJONESEYE wrote:the only player ive seen physically tired after the WC was Parrott in 1989 but that was more to do with circumstance of Hillsborough being a scouser in sheffield that year was tough for him and he did his bit to comfort family of the dead in between playing snooker so the 18-3 that year was down to that.

but in between them rout there's been moments you cant get at any other tournament and reducing that is the start of the end of snooker.

great have other formats around that but reducing everything the magic of the sport will soon vanish.


Well obviously you haven't looked at them quite closely.
Both Neil and Graeme were very tired this year, Graeme more so because he had a late finish in the semis and he was obviously affected by Mooney's involvement in the NOTW sting. And that was Neils point in the interview. Playing tired snooker... isn't what he wants to show the fans.
Ali was shattered in 2008 and Ronnie stiffling yawns every minute and it wasn't boredom.
John (Higgins) said he was dead on his feet last year.
Peter Ebdon and Graeme Dott again in 2006 ... were they exactly fresh?

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Casey

If they are tired that's just tuff. Other players have dealt better over the last 30 years. Why should it change to pander to a few players who can't last the pace?

If they treat snooker like a sport and take nutritional advice, get fit etc that will help their cause.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby NedB-H

Sonny wrote:For me the best day of the entire event is the semi-final Saturday. You get 3 sessions and usually two cracking finale's. Having a day off before the final would kill the momentum.


Anyway, having a two week long tournament with a rest day at the weekend is stupid, the weekends are the prime viewing days, if you want a rest day have it in the middle of one of the weeks. Unless you're Wimbledon.


I don't want to see sports events devalued because the players are "tired", it's the same for everyone and being able to overcome that is part of the challenge. I'm sure footballers are bloody knackered at the end of a World Cup, cricketers at the end of a Test series, tennis players at the end of a two-week major, and so on, but no one seriously suggests shortening any of those tournaments, even though football, cricket and tennis all have smaller tournaments that are played over shorter formats. If they want to pamper the players, schedule the snooker better, don't cut the snooker - it's their job to play, get on with it.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Wildey

mon

yes they tired but so they should be this is the ultimate test for a player something they been waiting all their pro life and before to win..

it should be hard work guts determination they climbing the snooker Everest ive not herd of mountaineers thinking of putting dynamite at the top of that to blow the summit make it less of a climb.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Wildey

all there needs doing is better thinking regarding sessions of the final

1st day of final 3.30pm and 7.30pm give them more time to get over the semi finals

2nd day of final 1.30pm and 6.30pm

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby NedB-H

Actually, thinking about it, the "exhaustion argument" gets used in a similar way by players wanting to play less in cricket, too. Like wild says, there was far more snooker played over the course of the year in the 1990s than in the past 5 years, and the WC format was the same, but the players seemed to cope without collapsing from overwork. And in cricket, the players complain about how much they have to play during the season, but they actually play far less than their predecessors in the 50s and 60s. The exhaustion argument only stands up if they're having to do more than previous generations who coped ok, and they're not. Robbo only played 87 frames this year to win; in 1969 John Spencer played 153 to win the first knockout WC.

Re: Should the World Championship Format be Reduced?

Postby Bourne

case_master wrote:Put another way, how 'tired' would any of use have to get to earn £250k. Something to think about players.

More than the money though, the prestige. Being World Champion should NEVER be an easy walk in the park.