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Re: Q School 2015

Postby fridge46

Wildey wrote:How is it right giving tour places to players that dont play and others that turn up to a remote part of England from Brazil or Australia gets hammered 5-0 without any hope of winning then return home without making no money.


Those that dont want to play dont accept their card. Peter Francisco* and Muhammad Asif (2012 IBSF Champion) come to mind.

*He beat Mohamed Khairy and Khalid Belaied in 2012 & 2013 Africa Championships, so based of that, yes, Khairy and Belaied should probably not have been on tour. Maybe World Snooker should prevent hand down spots and give them to qschool order of merit!

The names we have mentioned might have full intention of playing (they wouldnt have accepted the card if they didnt want to), and cant afford to. They accept their card because they think it will help them gain the necessary funding. A player is more likely to get some sponsorship if he has a tour card. Think Thor Chuan Leong - he missed events until Welsh Open, but then got funding and entered the last 4 events of this season. Ok, he lost all 4 matches, but they werent exactly walkovers:

Welsh: Lost 3-4 to Bingham
Indian: Lost 1-4 to Poomjaeng
China: Lost 3-5 to Cope
Worlds: Lost 7-10 to J Robertson

Because one player who comes through a regional event one year is sh*t, doesnt mean the next years winner wont be.

Kacper Filipiak won the 2011 Euro U21 Championship and didnt win a single main tour match in 11/12. Imagine if World Snooker then said they would withdrew that place for future years. We wouldnt have had James Cahill or Oliver Lines on tour.

Most issues in regard to no appearance or whitewash could be solved if World Snooker grew some balls and got tough:

- Players with tour cards must enter 75% of ranking events, or he/she loses their card
- Only regional champions can get cards, should they chose not to accept, the card is reallocated say to qschool, not to runner-ups.

Or maybe we should go back to formats in the last 90's, where we had an "overseas qualifier" in every event before the L128. Say we have 16 players (regional champions and qschool top ups) play the day before for the last 4 places in said tournament.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Wildey

No point accepting if you cant afford it and worst still World Snooker should not be inviting players that cant compete.

i understand how tough it is but World Snooker isnt a charity its running a professional sport and handing out tour cards like they are to any body is ridiculous and not very professional.

Oceania has not got a player strong enough to compete on the pro tour bar Vinnie Calbrese and that's not saying a lot so why is there a tour card open via that route? the same in America.

if players from those countries wants to play professionally they should have to qualify via a stronger pool of players.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby roy142857

One thought for a small tweak rather than a big change - the players from Africa, Oceania, North America and South America are clearly the weakest at the moment, so perhaps invite them to a play off at the same time as the EBSA OoM play-offs to get just one on Tour. Perhaps with a place in Q School without a fee for the 'losing' 3?

Instant reduction of players on Tour who aren't competitive, yet giving the 3 that don't make it practice of playing tougher opposition.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Wildey

roy142857 wrote:One thought for a small tweak rather than a big change - the players from Africa, Oceania, North America and South America are clearly the weakest at the moment, so perhaps invite them to a play off at the same time as the EBSA OoM play-offs to get just one on Tour. Perhaps with a place in Q School without a fee for the 'losing' 3?

Instant reduction of players on Tour who aren't competitive, yet giving the 3 that don't make it practice of playing tougher opposition.

Brilliant Idea

I am all for giving countries chances but not at the expense of a better player.

Adam Duffy is not on tour despite almost reaching the Crucible and a consistent performance at Q School and Vinnie Calbrese is on tour having earned £1,000 and Quit the tour for a easier re entry through Ocenia

Re: Q School 2015

Postby kolompar

I don't get why some are so outraged at the international players. They don't bother anyone really. Like Duffy had his chances but failed, you can say there's too much luck in Q school but blaming it on the international players is ridiculous. I think the tour is still unfair on the non-British players and they deserve a few places.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Tamctus

Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby kolompar

Tamctus wrote:Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

Yes, it should be obvious.
And it isn't even loads of wild cards, just like 5 to each Olympic region (I guess it may be a requirement for the Olympics).

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Wildey

Tamctus wrote:Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

No by having good international players on tour having whipping boys does nobody no favors.


No point having players play in cubicles in Crawley and thats all they are capable of doing they wont even be streamed unless they play old man White.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby TheSaviour

fridge46 wrote:When it comes to giving tour places to amateurs, World Snooker have a very difficult job in allocating those place. Yes, they should be offered to the best, but World Snooker also need to expand the game. While many disagree that the current allocation is flawed, I think it is just about right - just!

Remember, all players gaining tour places have done so by winning matches/tournaments; they havent been gifted to them on a plate or handed over a big brown envelope. Steve Mifsud, Mohammed Khairy, Floyd Ziegler, etc won tournaments - so in theory should be the best in their region. This how Neil Robertson got on tour - he had a terrible first season, dropped off, requalified and hasnt looked back since. While some who qualify from Asia dont turn up, some do - namely Li Hang who is now a top 64 player. Its not Ju Reti fault if he cant afford to move to England, and its unfair to punish Asia by removing spots where there could be plenty of others who just missed out who are willing to move. [I have an idea for those who cant afford to travel, but this isnt the place]

It cant be easy for these players to leave their life behind, relocate to a new country and expect to compete straight out of the box. I would struggle if I had to move to Africa or Asia, especially if there is no guarantee of an income - thats a lot of pressure.

I think the only fair way to have the best is to remove all qualification spots given out via regional championships and PTCs (on last years Euro OOM, 5 wins in 6 tournaments would have gained a tour card, whilst 6 wins in 3 tournaments in Asia would have gifted one! Reaching the Last 64 five times, in tournaments where many withdrew and the potential for pros to draw amateurs doesnt necessarily mean the best get the spots!) and have a bigger "QSchool".

For next season, 34 spots were available via qschool, regional qualifiers, AT/ET OOM's, etc.

I would have a tournament/s where pros that dropped off tour are joined by regional champions and qualifiers (there can be local tournaments all around the world, but amateurs must earn their spot, not just pay £600 - I dont want an important tournament like this where any Tom, sausage or Harry can turn up!) to get to 128 players or so. And from that, qualify 34 by whatever method (knockout, groups, combined rankings, double/triple elimination, etc).

In the short term, if a player hasnt entered a certain number of ranking events (excluding PTCs, and obviously players with ill health), they should lose their tour card. Additionally, Top-up players should receive a ranking (not necessarily a 2 year card) and the best so many receive tour cards for the next season. Xiao Zintong 100% deserves to be on tour (as do all those who came through qschool), but sadly has to wait another year whilst Mifsud, Reti and Leong do bugger all!


You mean Zhao Xintong? Is it because his age is is it a 17 or an 18. He is widely regarded as the "next big thing"! And I can agree that. He certainly has the fluency what current Chinese top-players are lacking. Liu Chuang, Ding, Anda Zhang, Tian Pengfei and Wenbo are all a really good players, but they certainly don´t play so fluent, And Zhao Xintong is potting everything he pots at the center of a pocket. Which is a very different we usually see. Those two things combined means that he will automatically get some tournaments runnings. There are a thousand reasons why he won´t necessarly win tournaments and so on. I am not any good to analyze those reasons, otherwise I would be there myself winning tournaments. But with the way he is playing he is basically granted to get some nice tournaments runs!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VWNMO31dpE See this! His fluency is a very much like Ronnie O´Sullivan has. And everything he pots, he pots at the center of a pocket.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Tamctus

Wildey wrote:
Tamctus wrote:Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

No by having good international players on tour having whipping boys does nobody no favors.


No point having players play in cubicles in Crawley and thats all they are capable of doing they wont even be streamed unless they play old man White.

Well they've got to start somewhere. Of course the players from new regions are no match for British players because there simply are not as many snooker players. But even the whipping boys get some publicity and thus help attract more players to snooker. Someone has to be the pioneer and the invitations are perfect way to give experience to players from around the World.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Wildey

Tamctus wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Tamctus wrote:Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

No by having good international players on tour having whipping boys does nobody no favors.


No point having players play in cubicles in Crawley and thats all they are capable of doing they wont even be streamed unless they play old man White.

Well they've got to start somewhere. Of course the players from new regions are no match for British players because there simply are not as many snooker players. But even the whipping boys get some publicity and thus help attract more players to snooker. Someone has to be the pioneer and the invitations are perfect way to give experience to players from around the World.

Players Normally Start on a competitive Amateur Circuit against competent players.


Hate that the Pro Tour is used as training for rubbish players.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Tamctus

Wildey wrote:
Tamctus wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Tamctus wrote:Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

No by having good international players on tour having whipping boys does nobody no favors.


No point having players play in cubicles in Crawley and thats all they are capable of doing they wont even be streamed unless they play old man White.

Well they've got to start somewhere. Of course the players from new regions are no match for British players because there simply are not as many snooker players. But even the whipping boys get some publicity and thus help attract more players to snooker. Someone has to be the pioneer and the invitations are perfect way to give experience to players from around the World.

Players Normally Start on a competitive Amateur Circuit against competent players.


Hate that the Pro Tour is used as training for rubbish players.

Yes, the international players have started on amateur circuit and earned their tour cards for being the best of their continent. I still can't see why it's so bad to have the best of every continent on Tour.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Wildey

Tamctus wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Tamctus wrote:
Wildey wrote:
Tamctus wrote:Plus having international players on tour (even if they would be losing every match) is the only way to really get snooker more publicity and more players in said countries. It is a sad fact at the moment that only British and Chinese players are competitive (with some exceptions of course) but that is never going to change if the international players don't get chances to gain experience by competing with the best. That is the only way snooker can grow into a truely global sport.

No by having good international players on tour having whipping boys does nobody no favors.


No point having players play in cubicles in Crawley and thats all they are capable of doing they wont even be streamed unless they play old man White.

Well they've got to start somewhere. Of course the players from new regions are no match for British players because there simply are not as many snooker players. But even the whipping boys get some publicity and thus help attract more players to snooker. Someone has to be the pioneer and the invitations are perfect way to give experience to players from around the World.

Players Normally Start on a competitive Amateur Circuit against competent players.


Hate that the Pro Tour is used as training for rubbish players.

Yes, the international players have started on amateur circuit and earned their tour cards for being the best of their continent. I still can't see why it's so bad to have the best of every continent on Tour.

Because they are rubbish.

the mandate Hearn said was we wont reward mediocrity well by accepting Oceania, African or American players entering through their weak region that is exactly what hes doing.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Sickpotter

Hate to disagree here Wild but if one really is rubbish being given a pro tour ticket isn't really a reward.

Players are so desperate to gain good tournament experience they're willing to take a shot at the pro tour knowing they've little chance of success in the short term.

Expanding the tour beyond 64 players opens it up to some weaker players certainly but some will gain the experience they need and become future stars.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Tamctus

Wildey wrote:Because they are rubbish.

the mandate Hearn said was we wont reward mediocrity well by accepting Oceania, African or American players entering through their weak region that is exactly what hes doing.

Recent nominations like Calabrese, Figueiredo and even Khairy have won more matches on tour than some of the Q school graduates. You just can't say a player will be rubbish before he gets the chance to prove his skill. With your logic Igor doesn't belong on tour because he's from the Americas (=rubbish).

Re: Q School 2015

Postby Wildey

Tamctus wrote:
Wildey wrote:Because they are rubbish.

the mandate Hearn said was we wont reward mediocrity well by accepting Oceania, African or American players entering through their weak region that is exactly what hes doing.

Recent nominations like Calabrese, Figueiredo and even Khairy have won more matches on tour than some of the Q school graduates. You just can't say a player will be rubbish before he gets the chance to prove his skill. With your logic Igor doesn't belong on tour because he's from the Americas (=rubbish).


Khairy has won 2 matches on tour in 13 tournaments he has played in 2 seasons i can Guarantee you by Christmas Every one of the players that has Qualified would have won more than that.

Re: Q School 2015

Postby bluelagoon

Let's have a quick look at your predictions:

1) Sydney Wilson --> 3 wins til xmas
2) Daniel Wells --> 11 wins til xmas
3) Eden Sharav --> 5 wins til xmas
4) Rhys Clark --> 4 wins til :santa:
5) Jason Weston --> 3 wins, 1 walkover til :tree:
6) Gareth Allen --> 3 wins til :elves:
7) Duane Jones --> 2 wins til :hankey:
8) Paul Davison --> 3 wins til xmas

So, you are Wildey clairvoyant, the oracle of the island :bowdown:

EDIT: Just read that you wrote "more than 2 matches". But Jones only won 2. So I have to cancel all I said above!!!! Don't trust Wildey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :parrot:

Re: Q School 2015

Postby kolompar

:D
Yeah, when I saw Wildey's post that he wants the best players even if they are Brits, I was thinking nothing's changed, we had the same last year <laugh>