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Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

The draws are out for the two UK events.

Bai Yulu has entered.

Robin Hull is giving it another go.

Dean Reynolds and Tony Knowles too. No Dessie Sheehan. But Heather Clare is there.

Looks like Reanne and On Yee are all in for the British Open as a qualifying route as neither has entered. Unless On Yee is eligible for Asia Q School.

No Marco Fu, unless he gets a wildcard or is eligible for Asia Q School.

Most other relegated players have entered. I think Michael Judge and Lei Peifan are the only omissions. Again, whether Lei is eligible for Asia Q School, we will see when the draw comes out.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby The_Abbott

Lei Peifan was in China but failed to qualify from that event. He hopped on a plane after he lost in the qualifiers.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby The_Abbott

other names to look out for:

Lucky is back

Ronnie Sullivan has dropped the O to give Q School a try

having not got a dance partner in recent years, Strictly's Neil Jones has entered

Also, Mark Joyce's mum's favourite son Mickey is also in the draw

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

The_Abbott wrote:Lei Peifan was in China but failed to qualify from that event. He hopped on a plane after he lost in the qualifiers.

Yes, along with Gao Yang, they went back to the CBSA qualifiers directly after playing in the World Championship. But they didn't fare too well.

There are no Chinese players in this Q School apart from Bai Yulu. She is actually arriving in Manchester tomorrow, to play in the Women's British Open and then Q School. It's her first time in Europe.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby The_Abbott

lhpirnie wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:Lei Peifan was in China but failed to qualify from that event. He hopped on a plane after he lost in the qualifiers.

Yes, along with Gao Yang, they went back to the CBSA qualifiers directly after playing in the World Championship. But they didn't fare too well.

There are no Chinese players in this Q School apart from Bai Yulu. She is actually arriving in Manchester tomorrow, to play in the Women's British Open and then Q School. It's her first time in Europe.


He probably thought that route was easier to get back on tour but it hasn't worked. I think he would have qualified from Q School had he entered. But maybe he will enter the China Q School instead now

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

The_Abbott wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:Lei Peifan was in China but failed to qualify from that event. He hopped on a plane after he lost in the qualifiers.

Yes, along with Gao Yang, they went back to the CBSA qualifiers directly after playing in the World Championship. But they didn't fare too well.

There are no Chinese players in this Q School apart from Bai Yulu. She is actually arriving in Manchester tomorrow, to play in the Women's British Open and then Q School. It's her first time in Europe.


He probably thought that route was easier to get back on tour but it hasn't worked. I think he would have qualified from Q School had he entered. But maybe he will enter the China Q School instead now

With only 8 places, no player can be confident to get through Q School. Their careers are decided by a lottery. The Asia/Oceania Q School is much easier. I'm not sure if the CBSA are sending a delegation to Bangkok.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

lhpirnie wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:
The_Abbott wrote:Lei Peifan was in China but failed to qualify from that event. He hopped on a plane after he lost in the qualifiers.

Yes, along with Gao Yang, they went back to the CBSA qualifiers directly after playing in the World Championship. But they didn't fare too well.

There are no Chinese players in this Q School apart from Bai Yulu. She is actually arriving in Manchester tomorrow, to play in the Women's British Open and then Q School. It's her first time in Europe.


He probably thought that route was easier to get back on tour but it hasn't worked. I think he would have qualified from Q School had he entered. But maybe he will enter the China Q School instead now

With only 8 places, no player can be confident to get through Q School. Their careers are decided by a lottery. The Asia/Oceania Q School is much easier. I'm not sure if the CBSA are sending a delegation to Bangkok.


Assume Fu will be in Asian Q School as is resident of Hong Kong, like On Yee.

We surely would have heard if Fu was getting another wildcard by now.

I wonder if Sunny will enter, health permitting.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

Interesting that Bai has gone for British Q School. I know it makes sense that she's already over here but still.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

SteveJJ wrote:Interesting that Bai has gone for British Q School. I know it makes sense that she's already over here but still.

Well, that's the whole point! She's playing in the British Open, which starts on 13th May. It's very unlikely she will qualify from either Q School at this stage, so spending a couple of months in the UK academy is probably a good thing. She will need to get used to playing in the UK.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby HappyCamper

what would evans and ng need to happen at the british open in order to get the second wws your card?

Re: Q School 2023

Postby GeF

HappyCamper wrote:what would evans and ng need to happen at the british open in order to get the second wws your card?

Ng On Ye gets the card if :

- She wins the british open,
- She is finalist while Reanne Evans doesn't reach quarters,
- She is semi-finalist and Reanne fails to win a match.
- She is quarter-finalist and Reanne makes carpooling with Neil Robertson as a driver.

In other cases, Reanne gets the card.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby HappyCamper

cheers, thought ng would likely have to win. which looks likes that's what it is.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SnookerEd25

GeF wrote:
- She is quarter-finalist and Reanne makes carpooling with Neil Robertson as a driver.



pmsl

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

Other thing to note is, I believe last year Russian players were banned from WST events. I see that must be over as Kakovskii is in the draw.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

lhpirnie wrote:
SteveJJ wrote:Interesting that Bai has gone for British Q School. I know it makes sense that she's already over here but still.

Well, that's the whole point! She's playing in the British Open, which starts on 13th May. It's very unlikely she will qualify from either Q School at this stage, so spending a couple of months in the UK academy is probably a good thing. She will need to get used to playing in the UK.


True, what i meant is that she had time to play in the British Open and travel for Asian Q School which should be an easier route.

Well done her for taking on the bigger challenge

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

Asia Pacific Q School entry deadline moved from yesterday to Friday.

Wonder why...low turnout?

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

SteveJJ wrote:Asia Pacific Q School entry deadline moved from yesterday to Friday.

Wonder why...low turnout?

They only just decided on the venue. Since players need to calculate their costs, they might understandably have queries about the location before entering.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

Well, the deadline has passed now so hopefully we will get the draw soon. Didn't they stream the draw last year?

Re: Q School 2023

Postby chengdufan

Here's a rundown of who is in each bracket for the first event. 208 players have entered, so each bracket has 52 players. Bracket 4 for the first event is down to 51, as one player has apparently withdrawn.

I've divided each bracket into who I believe are contenders, tough opponents, unlikely winners and unknown quantities. You are welcome to disagree :-)
So here's the first bracket:

Contenders:
Name then Age
Alexander Ursenbacher 27
Alfie Burden 46
Barry Pinches 52
Jamie Wilson 19
Louis Heathcote 25
Peter Lines 53
Rory McLeod 52
Ross Bulman 21
Ryan Davies 21

Tough Opponents:
Alex Clenshaw 21
Alfie Davies 22
Andrew Doherty 27
Chris Totten 24
Daan Leyssen 36
Ian Martin 41
Rodion Judin 25
Sean Maddocks 21
Simon Bedford 47

Unlikely winners:
Andy Marriott 38
Ben Robinson 29
Bradley Tyson 20
Daniel Holoyda 24
Gary Thomson 45
Ian Desmier 54
Imran Puri 59
Ivan Kakovskii 24
Jack Bradford 31
Jack Haley 20
James Lee 35
Jason Wright 53
Jeremiah Connors 29
Joe Fenton 20
John Fearick 30
Keith Keldie 41
Marc Shaw 41
Martyn Taylor 34
Matthew Glasby 27
Mike Finn 37
Nathan Jones 33
Patrick Whelan 25
Phil O'Kane 30
Robert Cloherty 51

Unknown Quantities:
Aristos Pampouris 22
Carl Bennett 32
Daniel Webb 31
Edwin Depoorter 58
Ian Barlow 50
Neil Craycraft 49
Neil Jones 44
Rupesh Thakkar 36
Thomas Peasland 31
Wang Chooi Tan 53
Last edited by chengdufan on 20 May 2023, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby chengdufan

Bracket 2

Contenders:
Andrew Higginson 45
Billy Joe Castle 30
Duane Jones 30
Florian Nüßle 21
Fraser Patrick 37
Haydon Pinhey 26
Jamie Curtis-Barrett 39
Michael Holt 44
Rhys Clark 28
Robbie McGuigan 18

Tough opponents:
Aidan Murphy 18
Alfie Lee 19
Bulcsú Révész 16
Darryl Hill 27
Fergal Quinn 23
Hamim Hussain 22
Hayden Staniland 22
Kuldesh Johal 42
Luke Pinches 21
Michael Collumb 34
Paul Deaville 18

Unlikely winners:
Andy Neck 50
Ben Fortey 26
Bradley Cowdroy 21
Brandon Hall 23
Daniel Walker 40
Dylan Smith 15
Halim Hussain 21
Heather Clare
Jeff Cundy 54
John Parkin 37
Josh Mulholland 26
Juan Pedro Duran 47
Labeeb Ahmed 32
Lucky Vatnani 37
Mark Vincent 38
Matthew Roberts 34
Mickey Joyce 20
Saqib Nasir 30
Stephen Kershaw 47
Stuart Watson 46
Tom Maxfield 29

Unknown quantities:
Anthony Wall 21
Ben Pacan 31
Dale Prime 33
Gary Widdecomb 46
Kriangsak Chiranothai 34
Kyle Holland 31
Mandeep Singh 38
Pommy Kang 46
Ronnie Kralj 28
Vladislav Gradinari 14
Last edited by chengdufan on 20 May 2023, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby chengdufan

Bracket 3

Contenders:
Brian Ochoiski 24
Craig Steadman 40
Dean Young 21
Eden Sharav 31
Farakh Ajaib 32
Liam Pullen 17
Luke Simmonds 43
Mark Lloyd 23
Mitchell Mann 31
Steven Hallworth 27
Sydney Wilson 33

Tough opponents:
Alex Taubman 34
Bai Yulu 19
Jake Crofts 17
Laxman Rawat 31
Lewis Ullah 21
Niel Vincent 22
Riley Parsons 23

Unlikely winners:
Abdul Raheem 24
Andrei Orzan 27
Bash Maqsood 53
Danny Brindle 38
Faizaan Mohammed 19
Gary Miller 58
Jack Harris 23
James Height 45
James Silverwood 32
Jason Tart 30
Jed Mann 23
Jordan Shepherd 32
Joshua Cooper 26
Neal Jones 47
Nigel Clarke 30
Simon Dent 54
Tam Mustafa 45
Tony Knowles 67
Zack Richardson 36

Unknown quantities
Andrew Robson 20
Arturs Kengis 22
David Allender 47
Dharminder Lilly 48
Elias Martin-Beris 21
Gary Britton 49
James Kirk 31
Julien Leifert 29
Manuel Ederer 30
Muhammad Aurangzaib 51
Rees Carter 31
Ronnie Sullivan 18
Sam McKay 18
Scott Rogan 42
Zac Cosker 17
Last edited by chengdufan on 20 May 2023, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby chengdufan

Bracket 4

Contenders
Andrew Pagett 41
Chae Ross 22
Daniel Womersley 31
George Pragnell 28
Gerard Greene 49
Harvey Chandler 28
Iulian Boiko 17
Jamie O'Neill 36
Liam Davies 16
Peter Devlin 26
Robin Hull 48
Stuart Carrington 32

Tough opponents:
Antoni Kowalski 19
Connor Benzey 21
Joshua Thomond 26
Kayden Brierley 21
Samuel Lee-Stephens 18
Sean McAllister 22
Tyler Rees 24
Umut Dikme 23

Unlikely winners:
Aaron Busuttil 31
Alex Millington 27
Amaan Iqbal 17
Aman Goel 39
Andrew Milliard 58
Andrew Tapper 42
Dean Reynolds 60
James Burrett 44
Lee Shanker 35
Paul Burrell 55
Ronnie Blake 27
Scott Bell 32
Simon Bevz 49
Wayne Townsend 43

Unknown quantities:
Adam Williams 21
Aidan Gallagher 19
Andrew Greaves 46
Anthony Krysa 38
Ayaan Iqbal 16
Daniel Young 42
Darren McVicar 48
Edward Warr 30
Evan Plummer 19
Francisco Domingues 41
Jack Borwick 16
Jake Robinson 25
Nicolas Mortreux 20
Oliver Sykes 17
Richard Pipe 58
Riley Powell 14
Sheldon O'Connor 31

Re: Q School 2023

Postby GeF

Heather Clare in the "Unlikely winners" seems to be a correct classification.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

Yes, I'm in broad agreement with your classifications.

I've calculated the Elo Ratings of all those players, using my statistical formula based on all professional and amateur matches in my database (with 10000 active players). The highest rated players are:

5248 Alexander Ursenbacher (Switzerland), 27
5246 Andrew Higginson (England), 45
5222 Alfie Burden (England), 46
5222 Louis Heathcote (England), 25
5218 Fraser Patrick (Scotland), 37
5217 Stuart Carrington (England), 32
5213 Peter Lines (England), 53
5189 Duane Jones (Wales), 30
5178 Gerard Greene (Northern Ireland), 49
5175 Mitchell Mann (England), 31
5173 Craig Steadman (England), 40
5169 Steven Hallworth (England), 27
5153 Florian Nüßle (Austria), 21
5152 Michael Holt (England), 44
5151 Barry Pinches (England), 52
5149 Haydon Pinhey (England), 26
5145 Andrew Pagett (Wales), 41
5142 Rhys Clark (Scotland), 28
5138 Robin Hull (Finland), 48
5136 Jamie O'Neill (England), 36
5132 Farakh Ajaib (England), 32
5126 Harvey Chandler (England), 28
5115 Iulian Boiko (Ukraine), 17
5112 Rory McLeod (Jamaica), 52
5111 Dean Young (Scotland), 21
5104 Billy Joe Castle (England), 30
5103 George Pragnell (England), 28
5096 Sydney Wilson (England), 33
5090 Simon Bedford (England), 47
5080 Michael Collumb (Scotland), 34

The full list is on another thread 'New Ideas for Snooker' to avoid polluting this thread with another list of 207 players!

It's going to be a real bloodbath this year, with only 8 places available. They will be under such intense pressure, not much snooker will be played. It will be ultra-tactical: pot a few balls and play safe. I call this event 'The Raft of the Medusa' for a reason...

Re: Q School 2023

Postby gninnur karona

Around 400 matches, dependent upon withdrawals, over 12 days.

Usual random nature of the draws. QSchool1 has, for example, section 1 dominated by recently relegated pros, section 2 has four of the leading amateurs. Craig Steadman may face Bai Yulu first up in round 2, whilst there are a number of potential mouthwatering clashes in round 3 including Liam Davies versus Iulian Boiko. Guess this is an example of intense pressure. How to reduce it?

Of course you already have the answer. How many matches and days would your Swiss system require to provide eight qualifiers?

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

gninnur karona wrote:Around 400 matches, dependent upon withdrawals, over 12 days.

Usual random nature of the draws. QSchool1 has, for example, section 1 dominated by recently relegated pros, section 2 has four of the leading amateurs. Craig Steadman may face Bai Yulu first up in round 2, whilst there are a number of potential mouthwatering clashes in round 3 including Liam Davies versus Iulian Boiko. Guess this is an example of intense pressure. How to reduce it?

Of course you already have the answer. How many matches and days would your Swiss system require to provide eight qualifiers?

Well, a Swiss Double-Elimination would require 410 matches, so not much difference. That would be fairer than the knockout draws, but both are far too much of a lottery.


There are too few places available and the structure isn't as fair as it should be. As I said above, the type of snooker that's required to get through this bloodbath isn't the type of snooker that they will need to do well on tour. This, and the increasing number of tour places that are being given to substandard players means that we won't be getting the best players on tour, or players who are improving who might be a good investment for the future. It's horrible.

Incidentally, with a Swiss system, you could combine the UK Q School with the Asia/Oceania Q School in the later rounds. That would probably lead to a 250-player event with 12 qualifiers, which would be a big improvement. I don't expect much from the Asia/Oceania Q School participants. The best of them already qualified last year: Dechawat Poomjaeng, Himanshu Dinesh Jain, Mohammed Asif and Asjad Iqbal.

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

lhpirnie wrote:
gninnur karona wrote:Around 400 matches, dependent upon withdrawals, over 12 days.

Usual random nature of the draws. QSchool1 has, for example, section 1 dominated by recently relegated pros, section 2 has four of the leading amateurs. Craig Steadman may face Bai Yulu first up in round 2, whilst there are a number of potential mouthwatering clashes in round 3 including Liam Davies versus Iulian Boiko. Guess this is an example of intense pressure. How to reduce it?

Of course you already have the answer. How many matches and days would your Swiss system require to provide eight qualifiers?

Well, a Swiss Double-Elimination would require 410 matches, so not much difference. That would be fairer than the knockout draws, but both are far too much of a lottery.


There are too few places available and the structure isn't as fair as it should be. As I said above, the type of snooker that's required to get through this bloodbath isn't the type of snooker that they will need to do well on tour. This, and the increasing number of tour places that are being given to substandard players means that we won't be getting the best players on tour, or players who are improving who might be a good investment for the future. It's horrible.

Incidentally, with a Swiss system, you could combine the UK Q School with the Asia/Oceania Q School in the later rounds. That would probably lead to a 250-player event with 12 qualifiers, which would be a big improvement. I don't expect much from the Asia/Oceania Q School participants. The best of them already qualified last year: Dechawat Poomjaeng, Himanshu Dinesh Jain, Mohammed Asif and Asjad Iqbal.


Assuming no Chinese entries again this year. Depending if they've entered...Vahedi, Thor, Lersattayathorn, Sunny might be worth places on the tour.

Assume if Suwannawat entered he'd suffer the same fate as Thanawat last year?

Re: Q School 2023

Postby SteveJJ

gninnur karona wrote:Around 400 matches, dependent upon withdrawals, over 12 days.

Usual random nature of the draws. QSchool1 has, for example, section 1 dominated by recently relegated pros, section 2 has four of the leading amateurs. Craig Steadman may face Bai Yulu first up in round 2, whilst there are a number of potential mouthwatering clashes in round 3 including Liam Davies versus Iulian Boiko. Guess this is an example of intense pressure. How to reduce it?

Of course you already have the answer. How many matches and days would your Swiss system require to provide eight qualifiers?


Not to sound like Hearn and his desire for brutal competition, do we want to lessen intense pressure, or are those that deal with it better, more equipped to deal with the pro tour?

I do agree that 8 places is too few. Especially in a year where they could do with an injection of fresh faces with the likely imminent bans.

Plus the order of merit could be a lottery based on 2 events

Re: Q School 2023

Postby lhpirnie

SteveJJ wrote:
gninnur karona wrote:Around 400 matches, dependent upon withdrawals, over 12 days.

Usual random nature of the draws. QSchool1 has, for example, section 1 dominated by recently relegated pros, section 2 has four of the leading amateurs. Craig Steadman may face Bai Yulu first up in round 2, whilst there are a number of potential mouthwatering clashes in round 3 including Liam Davies versus Iulian Boiko. Guess this is an example of intense pressure. How to reduce it?

Of course you already have the answer. How many matches and days would your Swiss system require to provide eight qualifiers?


Not to sound like Hearn and his desire for brutal competition, do we want to lessen intense pressure, or are those that deal with it better, more equipped to deal with the pro tour?

I do agree that 8 places is too few. Especially in a year where they could do with an injection of fresh faces with the likely imminent bans.

Plus the order of merit could be a lottery based on 2 events

There are different types of pressure. The pressure at Q School is about the future of your career, especially for the guys who've just dropped off the tour. That's why the matches are so defensive. On the main tour, it's necessary to play proper snooker, and try and win frames in one visit - if that leads to a loss, there will be another tournament next week. Q School's format favours grinders rather than scorers.


I agree that the OM is terrible, but then it's always been very dodgy. People don't think about that so much, because top-ups 'aren't supposed to happen', but of course we know they do. There have now been several players who qualified for the tour by the 1-year list as a top-up player.