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Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

Wildey wrote:The Qualifiers are getting younger

Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010


Whose heart is beating a little faster with excitement at this news?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

Iranu wrote:I don’t think any snooker fan casual or otherwise would want to see a tour where there are no stakes. What sports fan would want that?
[/quote]

I don't know ask american football fans in the national football league where it seems much more of them each year in comparison to our football seem to think they have a shot at winning their championship the superbowl if they feel like there's no stakes or if their league isn't a sports league, different cultures meh how many arsenal or man utd fans can name a championship league player , they like the americans predominantly only care about their own team , its just unchartered territory in soccer thats all.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

cupotee wrote:
Iranu wrote:
mick745 wrote:I don’t think any snooker fan casual or otherwise would want to see a tour where there are no stakes. What sports fan would want that?


I don't know ask american football fans in the national football league where it seems much more of them each year in comparison to our football seem to think they have a shot at winning their championship the superbowl if they feel like there's no stakes or if their league isn't a sports league, different cultures meh how many arsenal or man utd fans can name a championship league player , they like the americans predominantly only care about their own team , its just unchartered territory in soccer thats all.


It depends what professional sport is for i guess. Is it purely for entertainment or is it a means of discovering who is best on a given day or over a period of time?

The truth is it is both isn't it. It just depends on which side the pendulum falls. But sport without a competitive edge is a "friendly".

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

mick745 wrote:
cupotee wrote:
Iranu wrote:
mick745 wrote:I don’t think any snooker fan casual or otherwise would want to see a tour where there are no stakes. What sports fan would want that?


I don't know ask american football fans in the national football league where it seems much more of them each year in comparison to our football seem to think they have a shot at winning their championship the superbowl if they feel like there's no stakes or if their league isn't a sports league, different cultures meh how many arsenal or man utd fans can name a championship league player , they like the americans predominantly only care about their own team , its just unchartered territory in soccer thats all.


It depends what professional sport is for i guess. Is it purely for entertainment or is it a means of discovering who is best on a given day or over a period of time?

The truth is it is both isn't it. It just depends on which side the pendulum falls. But sport without a competitive edge is a "friendly".


sorry it should have said Iranu on top

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Wildey

Barry Pinches Age 50 29th and 30th season on tour Turned Pro 1989/1990
Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010
Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993
Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

cupotee wrote:I don't know ask american football fans in the national football league where it seems much more of them each year in comparison to our football seem to think they have a shot at winning their championship the superbowl if they feel like there's no stakes or if their league isn't a sports league, different cultures meh how many arsenal or man utd fans can name a championship league player , they like the americans predominantly only care about their own team , its just unchartered territory in soccer thats all.

American football has a salary cap and the draft, and even then there are plenty of fans who call for a relegation/promotion system over there. It’s still a closed shop with the same 32 teams competing for honours every season.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

Wildey wrote:Barry Pinches Age 50 29th and 30th season on tour Turned Pro 1989/1990
Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010
Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993
Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995

That’s pretty lamentable isn’t it?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby The_Abbott

Wildey wrote:Barry Pinches Age 50 29th and 30th season on tour Turned Pro 1989/1990
Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010
Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993
Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995


I wonder what Judd thinks about this. Its certainly a young man's sport. No over 60's qualifying.

Only one 'Seed' has made it through so far.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Alex0paul

bucking shambles

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

Iranu wrote:
Wildey wrote:Barry Pinches Age 50 29th and 30th season on tour Turned Pro 1989/1990
Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010
Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993
Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995

That’s pretty lamentable isn’t it?

Yes. I have to say, I'm pretty distressed - and I'm not just saying that. I've been trying give young players some support for several years, and this is the lowest point. In fact, I can't remember feeling as bad as today in the 40 years I've been watching snooker.


Before covid interrupted the 2019-20 season, I attended 5 ranking tournaments including Austria. I've also watched snooker continuously, work permitting. It was similar in earlier seasons, including sometimes Barnsley or Preston qualifiers. I won't be doing any of that now. No point. Even the players I might want to see have been banished from the main venues.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

lhpirnie wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Wildey wrote:Barry Pinches Age 50 29th and 30th season on tour Turned Pro 1989/1990
Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010
Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993
Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995

That’s pretty lamentable isn’t it?

Yes. I have to say, I'm pretty distressed - and I'm not just saying that. I've been trying give young players some support for several years, and this is the lowest point. In fact, I can't remember feeling as bad as today in the 40 years I've been watching snooker.


Before covid interrupted the 2019-20 season, I attended 5 ranking tournaments including Austria. I've also watched snooker continuously, work permitting. It was similar in earlier seasons, including sometimes Barnsley or Preston qualifiers. I won't be doing any of that now. No point. Even the players I might want to see have been banished from the main venues.


always enjoy reading your posts etc but as someone who's played at the q school i don't overly understand the frustration or disappointment when there's seemingly no sense of investment in any amateur system outside of china , as you said to someone else was it in the barry hearn or judd trump thread how is the top 16 going to change in the next ten years without any youngsters comprehensively familiarising themselves with pro tables , just look at it from afar and chuckle , that isn't meant to sound in jest at all i just have no respect for wst , barry hearn etc , good luck.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby mick745

Wildey wrote:Barry Pinches Age 50 29th and 30th season on tour Turned Pro 1989/1990
Craig Steadman Age 38 10th and 11th season on tourTurned Pro 2009/2010
Michael Judge Age 45 20th and 21st season on tourTurned Pro 1992/1993
Alfie Burden Age 44 25th and 26th season on tourTurned Pro 1994/1995


Snooker R.I.P.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby SnookerEd25

aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.


I would add Kyren Wilson but, yes, the overall transference rate is something we shoiuld be despairing over :sad:

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.

Yes, a closed shop. It suits everyone to keep it that way. They are cashing in.


Probably they are hoping Yan Bingtao can quietly replace Ding Junhui and nobody will notice.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Prop

Wow. This is quite a sobering thought. I know you can’t teach experience, but even so.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby SteveJJ

aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.


But some of those events aren't that elite...ie the itv series. Everyone has the same chance of getting to them at the start of the season (so not like the top football teams playingextra games againstel each other). Most of the other elite events don't affect the rankings

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Prop

lhpirnie wrote:Probably they are hoping Yan Bingtao can quietly replace Ding Junhui and nobody will notice.


Eh?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby SteveJJ

SnookerEd25 wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.


I would add Kyren Wilson but, yes, the overall transference rate is something we shoiuld be despairing over :sad:


Came close to adding Dave Gilbert who i suspect is the most successful q school graduate in terms of consistency (until we find out if Jordan Brown's win was a one off)

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

lhpirnie wrote:Yes, a closed shop. It suits everyone to keep it that way. They are cashing in.


Probably they are hoping Yan Bingtao can quietly replace Ding Junhui and nobody will notice.

No, I think you’re being overly cynical there. Look how excited “everyone” was by Judd’s emergence as a dominant force. There was once a time when he was outside of any “closed shop”. Similar story with Yan winning the Masters.

It’s just that Q School isn’t conducive to getting exciting prospects on the tour.

It’s been a sorry state of affairs for winners but you’re basically saying “everyone” wants snooker to die within 15 yeas which doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

The qualification system needs an overhaul.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

SteveJJ wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.


But some of those events aren't that elite...ie the itv series. Everyone has the same chance of getting to them at the start of the season (so not like the top football teams playingextra games againstel each other). Most of the other elite events don't affect the rankings

Yep. The WGP was too early last season, though. And you could argue maybe those events should only count towards the one year list and be replaced yearly rather than two-yearly.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Iranu

Also, WST etc aren’t responsible for the likes of Michael White (so far) failing to get back on tour. And it’s not like he lacks experience of pro tables which Cupotee thinks is a big factor.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Prop

Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes, a closed shop. It suits everyone to keep it that way. They are cashing in.


Probably they are hoping Yan Bingtao can quietly replace Ding Junhui and nobody will notice.

No, I think you’re being overly cynical there. Look how excited “everyone” was by Judd’s emergence as a dominant force. There was once a time when he was outside of any “closed shop”. Similar story with Yan winning the Masters.

It’s just that Q School isn’t conducive to getting exciting prospects on the tour.

It’s been a sorry state of affairs for winners but you’re basically saying “everyone” wants snooker to die within 15 yeas which doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

The qualification system needs an overhaul.


It’s the closing sentence that confuses me. Could you help us understand you mean by that, Lewis?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

SteveJJ wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.


But some of those events aren't that elite...ie the itv series. Everyone has the same chance of getting to them at the start of the season (so not like the top football teams playingextra games againstel each other). Most of the other elite events don't affect the rankings


The football comparison still stands though. It’s like saying finish in the top four at the end of March and we’ll give you extra games against each other. Everyone in the league would have the same chance of getting into the top four as the league table is in effect football’s one year list. They’d never do that in football, so why snooker?

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby aimlesswandeer

SteveJJ wrote:
SnookerEd25 wrote:
aimlesswandeer wrote:50% of Q school graduates thus far will be eligible for the 2022 World Seniors. But good luck to them. Q school is a grind, experience counts a lot.

I agree that there is stagnation at the top end of snooker. I’m not a fan of the elite events where the top x number of players in the rankings/one year list get to play for additional ranking points. That’s a bit like giving the top four teams in the Premier League extra games against each other. The rich getting richer, ranking wise. It feels like a closed shop. Yan Bingtao is the only player for at least a decade that I can think of that has made a quick transition to the top of the rankings.


I would add Kyren Wilson but, yes, the overall transference rate is something we shoiuld be despairing over :sad:


Came close to adding Dave Gilbert who i suspect is the most successful q school graduate in terms of consistency (until we find out if Jordan Brown's win was a one off)


He wasn’t an overnight success though, he’d been on (and off) the tour for years before breaking through.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

Prop wrote:
Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes, a closed shop. It suits everyone to keep it that way. They are cashing in.


Probably they are hoping Yan Bingtao can quietly replace Ding Junhui and nobody will notice.

No, I think you’re being overly cynical there. Look how excited “everyone” was by Judd’s emergence as a dominant force. There was once a time when he was outside of any “closed shop”. Similar story with Yan winning the Masters.

It’s just that Q School isn’t conducive to getting exciting prospects on the tour.

It’s been a sorry state of affairs for winners but you’re basically saying “everyone” wants snooker to die within 15 yeas which doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

The qualification system needs an overhaul.


It’s the closing sentence that confuses me. Could you help us understand you mean by that, Lewis?

I'm not blaming WST directly for the failures of Michael White, James Cahill, Luo Honghao, Soheil Vahedi, Bai Langning, etc. this week. The system is only partially to blame.


My comments about 'closed shop' is because it's an increasing trend, for example the advent of the Coral, sorry Kazoo, Series. It's like they are closing the door behind Judd Trump, yes.

But they have to have one Chinese player, for promotional purposes. Whether that's Ding or Yan doesn't make much difference from the point of view of selling the game to China, or claiming that snooker is 'a global game'.

If snooker dies in 15 years, that will be blamed on the organisation then. I suspect that many at the top of snooker have given up on the future anyway - it's not their problem. The results from Q School today tend to affirm that view.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby cupotee

Iranu wrote:Also, WST etc aren’t responsible for the likes of Michael White (so far) failing to get back on tour. And it’s not like he lacks experience of pro tables which Cupotee thinks is a big factor.


if i was say ( just abbreviating for simplicity ) some mythical michael white fan i wouldn't be remotely worried about him anyway , he already has a huge amount of experience and if he doesn't qualify or get high enough on the order of merit from event 3 he can just have his mini exodus , sabbatical whatever you'd like to call it like alfie burden and qualify next year.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby hendry_fan

A BIG Congrats to Barry Pinches!. :hatoff:

He won the decider against Lam by 63 points to 54 and even chucked in a century in that match!.



Hard luck to the 32 year young Michael Collumb,failed at the last hurdle. :-(



It aint lookin braw for Ross Muir,he,s runnin out of chances.He managed to get as far as round 5,but of course,that aint good enough.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby Prop

lhpirnie wrote:
Prop wrote:
Iranu wrote:
lhpirnie wrote:Yes, a closed shop. It suits everyone to keep it that way. They are cashing in.


Probably they are hoping Yan Bingtao can quietly replace Ding Junhui and nobody will notice.

No, I think you’re being overly cynical there. Look how excited “everyone” was by Judd’s emergence as a dominant force. There was once a time when he was outside of any “closed shop”. Similar story with Yan winning the Masters.

It’s just that Q School isn’t conducive to getting exciting prospects on the tour.

It’s been a sorry state of affairs for winners but you’re basically saying “everyone” wants snooker to die within 15 yeas which doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

The qualification system needs an overhaul.


It’s the closing sentence that confuses me. Could you help us understand you mean by that, Lewis?

I'm not blaming WST directly for the failures of Michael White, James Cahill, Luo Honghao, Soheil Vahedi, Bai Langning, etc. this week. The system is only partially to blame.


My comments about 'closed shop' is because it's an increasing trend, for example the advent of the Coral, sorry Kazoo, Series. It's like they are closing the door behind Judd Trump, yes.

But they have to have one Chinese player, for promotional purposes. Whether that's Ding or Yan doesn't make much difference from the point of view of selling the game to China, or claiming that snooker is 'a global game'.

If snooker dies in 15 years, that will be blamed on the organisation then. I suspect that many at the top of snooker have given up on the future anyway - it's not their problem. The results from Q School today tend to affirm that view.


Right. Cool. It’s just the bit about them “quietly replacing Ding with Yan and nobody noticing” that puzzled me, and continues to do so. I find it quite an odd thing to say.

Re: Q School 2 !!!

Postby lhpirnie

Prop wrote:Right. Cool. It’s just the bit about them “quietly replacing Ding with Yan and nobody noticing” that puzzled me, and continues to do so. I find it quite an odd thing to say.

Yes, well before Christmas we heard both Neil Robertson and John Higgins (in interviews) saying that they thought Zhou Yuelong would be the one "to take over from Ding". Oops. But actually, many people have talked about "the Chinese No.1" as if there mustn't be more than one top player. We have all heard comments about 'Chinese invasions' and people who say they will stop watching snooker, etc, etc. Having a clear No.1 probably helps promoting.