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Best player not to have won the WC

Jimmy White
14
61%
Ding Junhui
9
39%
 
Total votes : 23

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby SnookerFan

Pink Ball wrote:Hearts ruling heads here. Mind you, Ding won’t be eligible for this poll after he wins the 2020 World Championship, so perhaps people are voting with the future in mind.


I am tending towards Ding, but Jimmy had six world finals to Ding's one.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ash147

Pink Ball wrote:Hearts ruling heads here. Mind you, Ding won’t be eligible for this poll after he wins the 2020 World Championship, so perhaps people are voting with the future in mind.


If Ding wins the 2020 World Championship, I'll get Wild to ban me.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby SnookerFan

Ash147 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Hearts ruling heads here. Mind you, Ding won’t be eligible for this poll after he wins the 2020 World Championship, so perhaps people are voting with the future in mind.


If Ding wins the 2020 World Championship, I'll get Wild to ban me.


:zzz:

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Johnny Bravo

In terms of greatness, Jimmy is still superior, cause he has achieved more than Ding so far. Plus he was more exciting to watch.

But in terms of who is better, it's Ding, cause he has the better game overall.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ck147

Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:In terms of greatness, Jimmy is still superior, cause he has achieved more than Ding so far.

So White has fewer ranking titles, fewer major titles, never topped the world rankings, but has achieved more?

Hard to compare 2 players from different era's, different number of events, different styles, etc, all the stuff we already know. SF made a good point about Jimmy being in 6 finals vs Ding's 1. To get to 6 finals in your era and never winning puts Jimmy in first place for best player to never win the WC. I think it's universally accepted and hard to argue against.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Pink Ball

Ck147 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:In terms of greatness, Jimmy is still superior, cause he has achieved more than Ding so far.

So White has fewer ranking titles, fewer major titles, never topped the world rankings, but has achieved more?

Hard to compare 2 players from different era's, different number of events, different styles, etc, all the stuff we already know. SF made a good point about Jimmy being in 6 finals vs Ding's 1. To get to 6 finals in your era and never winning puts Jimmy in first place for best player to never win the WC. I think it's universally accepted and hard to argue against, saying otherwise implies you could quite possibly be a hammer.

You do realise Jimmy White is my favourite player of all time?

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ck147

Pink Ball wrote:
Ck147 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:In terms of greatness, Jimmy is still superior, cause he has achieved more than Ding so far.

So White has fewer ranking titles, fewer major titles, never topped the world rankings, but has achieved more?

Hard to compare 2 players from different era's, different number of events, different styles, etc, all the stuff we already know. SF made a good point about Jimmy being in 6 finals vs Ding's 1. To get to 6 finals in your era and never winning puts Jimmy in first place for best player to never win the WC. I think it's universally accepted and hard to argue against, saying otherwise implies you could quite possibly be a hammer.

You do realise Jimmy White is my favourite player of all time?

I removed the hammer bit as I didn't intend to direct it at you (but it came across that way), it was intended as a more a general comment, but you quoted before my edit got in! Apologies for any offence, that was not my intent.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ck147

To be clear, anyone who says Jimmy is NOT the best player not to win the WC is a hammer and talking bull plop.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Andre147

Ck147 wrote:To be clear, anyone who says Jimmy is NOT the best player not to win the WC is a hammer and talking bull plop.


Clearly it's Jimmy.

Ding would have to reach probably at least 4 World Finals without winning any to be considered the best non-winner of the WC.

Ding may have achieved more than White in his career, but in terms of WC Jimmy still edges it.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ck147

Andre147 wrote:
Ck147 wrote:To be clear, anyone who says Jimmy is NOT the best player not to win the WC is a hammer and talking bull plop.


Clearly it's Jimmy.

Ding would have to reach probably at least 4 World Finals without winning any to be considered the best non-winner of the WC.

Ding may have achieved more than White in his career, but in terms of WC Jimmy still edges it.

Yep, Jimmy 6 finals and 4 semis, Ding 1 final and 2 semis, no comparison when it comes to WC.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Pink Ball

Andre147 wrote:
Ck147 wrote:To be clear, anyone who says Jimmy is NOT the best player not to win the WC is a hammer and talking bull plop.


Clearly it's Jimmy.

Ding would have to reach probably at least 4 World Finals without winning any to be considered the best non-winner of the WC.

Ding may have achieved more than White in his career, but in terms of WC Jimmy still edges it.

No it’s not ‘clearly’ Jimmy. In fact, it’s not Jimmy at all. It’s Ding.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ck147

Pink Ball wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
Ck147 wrote:To be clear, anyone who says Jimmy is NOT the best player not to win the WC is a hammer and talking bull plop.


Clearly it's Jimmy.

Ding would have to reach probably at least 4 World Finals without winning any to be considered the best non-winner of the WC.

Ding may have achieved more than White in his career, but in terms of WC Jimmy still edges it.

No it’s not ‘clearly’ Jimmy. In fact, it’s not Jimmy at all. It’s Ding.

Bull plop

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Pink Ball

So White is better than a guy who:
A) has won more majors than him
B) has won more ranking titles than him
C) Made it higher in the world rankings than he ever did
D) and did all of the above despite playing in a more complete era

...because he lost (LOST!) more world finals than that guy.

Give me strength.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Pink Ball

So White is better than a guy who:
A) has won more majors than him
B) has won more ranking titles than him
C) Made it higher in the world rankings than he ever did
D) and did all of the above despite playing in a more complete era

...because he lost (LOST!) more world finals than that guy.

Give me strength.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ck147

I think it's unfair to compare players of different era's in the way you are doing, he was good enough to get to those finals to lose them, Ding only managed it once. Ding also had more opportunity to build on the stats you are stating, as there are many more events now. Both are great players and have done a lot for the game, but on WC performance alone, which is the true test for a snooker player that can be compared over the timescales we are talking about here, there is no contest...Jimmy

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby chengdufan

I wasn't sure, but having read through the comments above and having had a think, I'm going for Ding. It comes down to how the question is phrased.
Ding is the best player not to have won it.
Jimmy is highest on the list of players who could have won it but haven't in terms of statistical probability.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Johnny Bravo

Pink Ball wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:In terms of greatness, Jimmy is still superior, cause he has achieved more than Ding so far.

So White has fewer ranking titles, fewer major titles, never topped the world rankings, but has achieved more?


I said he's greater, not better. Big difference between the 2 things.

Ding can obviously play to a higher level,and thus he is "better", but "greatness" is all about achievements and impact on the sport.
Ding has a few more rankers won, but he reached less WC finals, so that kind of evens it out. So it all comes down to impact on the sport, and Jimmy edges it by a country mile in this department, he is more of a legend.
So at the moment, he's still the greater player.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Iranu

Is John Higgins introduced as an 8-time World Championship finalist?

I don’t think Jimmy reaching 6 world finals means as much as you do, Johnny. It just means he was the ‘best’ of the losers in 6 world finals.

I’m not comfortable answering this poll because I never saw Jimmy at his peak, but using the 6 world finals in place of all the other achievements by both players doesn’t make much sense to me.

Also the poll is the ‘best’ player not to win the WC, not the ‘greatest’. So even if we accept that there’s a difference (which I don’t) that’s not the question being asked.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby vodkadiet1

This poll is ridiculous. Eddie Charlton is undoubtedly the best snooker player who never legitimately got both of his hands on snooker's most famous of all trophies.

Re: Best player not to have won the WC

Postby Ash147

vodkadiet1 wrote:This poll is ridiculous. Eddie Charlton is undoubtedly the best snooker player who never legitimately got both of his hands on snooker's most famous of all trophies.


You've said some real nonsense over the years, but that's right up there at the top.