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Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better?

Judd Trump
3
14%
Ronnie O'Sullivan
19
86%
 
Total votes : 22

Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better?

Postby Ace

Let's have a proper contest shall we? One where Judd deserves to go up against a stronger contender than Neil?

Who's A game is better?

provide responses below because the poll doesn't show who has voted which is a shame

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Badsnookerplayer wrote:OK well I think that Judd is now at his peak so I shall give it some thought before casting my vote


There's already 2 votes for Judd, one by me and you?

And do give your response, I'd like to see it. If you can include matches from those 2 players who you think were their peakiest that would be good too, and reasons ofc

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Iranu wrote:What’s the point in this thread? It’s already been decided that Judd is now the yardstick against which all players past, present and future will be judged.

Lock it up, mods.


2004 SF Ronnie was holding that mantle for 15 years! It didn't stop the whole bloody snooker fandom from praising 2004 Ronnie as the benchmark

Now it's 2019 Final Judd.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I am very disappointed with Iranu to be honest.

All the time ROS was winning he was saying he was the Goat and now Judd wins the Masters and WC, he has switched sides and is crowing in several threads about how Judd is the benchmark.

Very very disloyal


Forget him, have you thought of your answer yet?

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Ace wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I am very disappointed with Iranu to be honest.

All the time ROS was winning he was saying he was the Goat and now Judd wins the Masters and WC, he has switched sides and is crowing in several threads about how Judd is the benchmark.

Very very disloyal


Forget him, have you thought of your answer yet?

No I don't think comparisons over time are very easy.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Iranu

Badsnookerplayer wrote:I am very disappointed with Iranu to be honest.

All the time ROS was winning he was saying he was the Goat and now Judd wins the Masters and WC, he has switched sides and is crowing in several threads about how Judd is the benchmark.

Very very disloyal

Judd has unseated him, there’s no shame in that.

As Ace correctly points out, Ronnie sat at the top of the pile for 15 years. Judd has risen up and surpassed him.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Ace wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:I am very disappointed with Iranu to be honest.

All the time ROS was winning he was saying he was the Goat and now Judd wins the Masters and WC, he has switched sides and is crowing in several threads about how Judd is the benchmark.

Very very disloyal


Forget him, have you thought of your answer yet?

No I don't think comparisons over time are very easy.


What matches are you considering from the 2 players?

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

@Andre

Yes Judd has passed Ronnie 2004, I've said this a while ago against Snookerfan

1. Trump scored more points than Ronnie at his peak did between those two matches. 1539 points vs 1681. They are both attacking, offensive players so this is a very important stat.
2. Trump scored 7 centuries, Ronnie only scored 2.
3. Higgins was a better opponent. Higgins scored 1050 points vs Hendry's 514. Which leads to point #4
4. Higgins scored 4 century breaks and 8 50+ breaks, Hendry only scored 3 50+ breaks and no centuries. Tying back to better opponent.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

And everytime I bring out actual data, no one has a response. I at least try to back up my opinions instead of just saying "lolz peak Ronnie da best" with no supporting evidence

SnookerFan backed away once he said 2004 Ronnie until I showed him the stats.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Look, I get it Ronnie has the biggest fanbase ever which are all Snooker fans anyway given they pay for tickets and stuff (never understood the Ronnie fans and Snooker fans divide) but at the end of the day stats and level of play etc don't lie, if you can see past his popularity and just think about the actual level of performance which Judd leads in pretty much everything, it's easier to accept.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby TheRocket

You're having a laugh. Ronnie O'Sullivan has had matches in his career where he had a pot success up to 98% after a bo17 and bo19 match which also includes winning every single frame in one visit.

Namely the Masters final in 2005. Mastersfinal 2007. English Open final 2017. I'm pretty sure there are even more in the early 00's.

Lets see if peak Trump can ever reach those heights. Oh wait. He won't. And that's why he's only won 3 majors compared to Ronnies 19.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Lemnas

Ace wrote:And everytime I bring out actual data, no one has a response.


Average break for 2018/19 season:
1. 37.131, 715, Ronnie O'Sullivan
4. 28.748, 1223, Judd Trump

Ronnie's A game breakbuilding is still superior to everybody else.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

TheRocket wrote:You're having a laugh. Ronnie O'Sullivan has had matches in his career where he had a pot success up to 98% after a bo17 and bo19 match which also includes winning every single frame in one visit.

Namely the Masters final in 2005. Mastersfinal 2007. English Open final 2017. I'm pretty sure there are even more in the early 00's.

Lets see if peak Trump can ever reach those heights. Oh wait. He won't. And that's why he's only won 3 majors compared to Ronnies 19.


Look at the stats I provided for a World Championship format tournament. 2019 Judd final vs 2004 Ronnie SF and Judd leads in every stat, that's where it matters. All those matches you said are less than the longer formats, what Judd did is he did it over the longest distance possible, he scored so many points that even if the 2004 SF was a match where Ronnie needed 18 frames to win instead of 17 and he scored a 147 in the 18th frame, the points wouldn't still add up to Judd's tally in 2019 final.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Lemnas wrote:
Ace wrote:And everytime I bring out actual data, no one has a response.


Average break for 2018/19 season:
1. 37.131, 715, Ronnie O'Sullivan
4. 28.748, 1223, Judd Trump

Ronnie's A game breakbuilding is still superior to everybody else.


How can you use that to decide peak? Peak is between two best moments and matches in time being compared with each other, that's just a breakbuilding stat for overall season, not to mention it's so pointless because Judd beat Ronnie twice.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Lemnas

Ace wrote:
Lemnas wrote:
Ace wrote:And everytime I bring out actual data, no one has a response.


Average break for 2018/19 season:
1. 37.131, 715, Ronnie O'Sullivan
4. 28.748, 1223, Judd Trump

Ronnie's A game breakbuilding is still superior to everybody else.


How can you use that to decide peak? Peak is between two best moments and matches in time being compared with each other, that's just a breakbuilding stat for overall season, not to mention it's so pointless because Judd beat Ronnie twice.


How can you use stats between two matches that were not played over the same number of frames, happened 15 years apart and where Ronnie and Judd played different opponents?
My stat proves that Ronnie is the better scorer on average and I conclude from this that he is the better scorer at his peak as well.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

Lemnas wrote:How can you use stats between two matches that were not played over the same number of frames, happened 15 years apart and where Ronnie and Judd played different opponents?
My stat proves that Ronnie is the better scorer on average and I conclude from this that he is the better scorer at his peak as well.


Even if that match was 18 frames instead of 17 and Ronnie scored a 147, his point total would still be less than Trump's and because 2004 Ronnie SF is considered peak Ronnie and Judd 2019 final is considered peak Trump and those two matches are the closest we have got to decide peak, when Ronnie was young and over 17 frames, Judd similar age and 18 frames, only 1 frame is different but more than reasonable to compare...and it makes sense.

You're just making your own peak up.

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby TheRocket

Ace wrote:
Lemnas wrote:How can you use stats between two matches that were not played over the same number of frames, happened 15 years apart and where Ronnie and Judd played different opponents?
My stat proves that Ronnie is the better scorer on average and I conclude from this that he is the better scorer at his peak as well.


Even if that match was 18 frames instead of 17 and Ronnie scored a 147, his point total would still be less than Trump's and because 2004 Ronnie SF is considered peak Ronnie and Judd 2019 final is considered peak Trump and those two matches are the closest we have got to decide peak, when Ronnie was young and over 17 frames, Judd similar age and 18 frames, only 1 frame is different but more than reasonable to compare...and it makes sense.

You're just making your own peak up.


Actually you do mate. What matters is average points scored per frame. Of course Ronnies total points are lower than Trumps. He destroyed Hendry 17:4 in the 2004 semifinals. While Trump on the other hand played six more frames during his 18:9 win over Higgins.

Average points/frame.
2004 SF Ronnie 73,29
2019 F Trump: 62,26

Re: Judd Trump Vs Ronnie O'Sullivan - Who's A Game Is Better

Postby Ace

TheRocket wrote:
Ace wrote:
Lemnas wrote:How can you use stats between two matches that were not played over the same number of frames, happened 15 years apart and where Ronnie and Judd played different opponents?
My stat proves that Ronnie is the better scorer on average and I conclude from this that he is the better scorer at his peak as well.


Even if that match was 18 frames instead of 17 and Ronnie scored a 147, his point total would still be less than Trump's and because 2004 Ronnie SF is considered peak Ronnie and Judd 2019 final is considered peak Trump and those two matches are the closest we have got to decide peak, when Ronnie was young and over 17 frames, Judd similar age and 18 frames, only 1 frame is different but more than reasonable to compare...and it makes sense.

You're just making your own peak up.


Actually you do mate. What matters is average points scored per frame. Of course Ronnies total points are lower than Trumps. He destroyed Hendry 17:4 in the 2004 semifinals. While Trump on the other hand played six more frames during his 18:9 win over Higgins.

Average points/frame.
2004 SF Ronnie 73,29
2019 F Trump: 62,26


Oh crap I didn't think of that, crap crap crap!!! i DIDN'T TAKE THE EXTRA 6 FRAMES WHERE JUDD SCORES POINTS INTO CONSIDERATION!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY ROCKET
Last edited by Ace on 26 Jun 2019, edited 1 time in total.


   

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