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Who is the Greatest Player of all time?

Ronnie O'Sullivan
11
32%
Stephen Hendry
17
50%
John Higgins
2
6%
Steve Davis
1
3%
Ray Reardon
0
No votes
Joe Davis
2
6%
other (please specify)
1
3%
 
Total votes : 34

Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Cannonball

I asked this question a couple of years ago. Since then, the Genius has acquired a couple more world titles, one of them without playing all season. Both have included total destruction of his opponents in the most sublime way possible. On top of this, he's added a Masters and this week, the Welsh Open. The final frame of that victory in Wales included a maxi, that even by the Rocket's standards, was incredible (not quite as incredible as his world record maxi I might add because that maxi takes the biscuit for me). Fittingly, Ronnie dedicated the title to the fans who have supported the tournament in Newport, the last time it will be staged there. What a send-off! The Beeb finally have it up:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/snooker/26411860

It's worth watching again, whether you saw it live or not. I've only included two voting options because past polls suggest this really is a two horse race.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Holden Chinaski

I voted Ronnie. But Steve Davis, Alex Higgins, Ray Reardon and Joe Davis deserve a place in this poll as well.

But the best player I have seen is Ronnie. With Hendry and Steve Davis close behind.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Wildey

This is now an impossible Question for me to Answer.

I Still maintain over a 6 or 7 year Period the Ronnie of today would have found Hendry more than a Handful because you do get a lot of chances with Ronnie and Hendry of that period would have taken those chances and not feel intimidated by him on Sunday and won But Ronnie is playing to a higher standard over a longer Period of Time and as a Fan of the Sport more than a player i have to concede that Ronnie O'Sullivan at last could now be considered the Greatest Ever Player.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Ayrshirebhoy

Holden Chinaski wrote:Nice thread so far. :-) Nice to see Ronnie finally get the respect he deserves.


Me personally iv always respected ronnie the snooker player, it's ronnie the man iv not always had much respect for.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Wildey

ive never been one for knee jerk reaction and a lot of time Ronnie fans have been guilty of that just because someone plays fast or with flair it doesn't make them the best player.


ive always enjoyed what Ronnie does but im not going to lie and say hes the Greatest until i in my heart feels he is.

if some people don't like that Tough.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby snooker_loopy

Stephen Hendry.

Ronnie O'Sullivan has said enough times he (Ronnie) was a better player when he was younger but he never won the WC in the 1990s. I think this proves Hendry was the better player or more consistent or mentally stronger or whatever term you wanna use to describe it.

People forget how machine-like Hendry was at his best. He was the Terminator robot of snooker. O'Sullivan is the most gifted player, no doubt, he is a snooker genius but for sheer "I am going to win and crush you" robotic vibe Hendry was the best. And the most dominate player during his peak years.

And another interesting stat:

Ronnie has taken almost 20 years and still hasn't reached Hendry's century break tally. Hendry got to his tally in less years and Hendry's form was never quite as good post 2000 and onwards. Hendry's form really slumped (compared to how he was playing) after his last WC win in 1999.

However, time is Ronnie's side. He has enough time to win eight WC and more Masters and more centuries so it's possible the record books will confirm him as the best. But the best over a decade? Easily Stephen Hendry. Heck, the stats prove it:

Hendry became the youngest professional snooker player in 1985 aged 15 and, in 1990, he was the youngest-ever snooker World Champion, at the age of 21.[4] He has won the World Championship seven times, a record in the modern era, and was snooker's world number one for eight consecutive years between 1990 and 1998, and again in 2006/2007. Hendry has the distinction of holding the most world ranking titles (36) and leads the field of snooker players with 775 competitive century breaks.
Last edited by snooker_loopy on 04 Mar 2014, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby snooker_loopy

These stats prove Hendry was the best over the period he was in his prime:

Hendry became the youngest professional snooker player in 1985 aged 15 and, in 1990, he was the youngest-ever snooker World Champion, at the age of 21. He has won the World Championship seven times, a record in the modern era, and was snooker's world number one for eight consecutive years between 1990 and 1998, and again in 2006/2007. Hendry has the distinction of holding the most world ranking titles (36).

His other career records include: consecutive wins of a single tournament, longest consecutive winning streak (in ranking events), most century breaks compiled in one match (7), most centuries compiled in one tournament (16), most years ranked world no.1*, most career centuries * (775) and highest total prize money.


Ronnie has had 20 years to do that but hasn't achieved that. But he's got more 147s than Hendry! In terms of what Hendry did during his time at his best, he is the best ever. The stats don't lie, I'm afraid!
Last edited by snooker_loopy on 04 Mar 2014, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Cloud Strife

Who is the greatest player of all time?

Is this a trick question? It's absolutely clear who the GOAT is and come this May he will be claiming his sixth World Title, a hat-trick, no less.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby snooker_loopy

Perhaps the truth is Hendry will always be the best snooker player ever over a decade of the sport whereas it looks extremely likely O'Sullivan will become the best snooker player ever over over his entire career. So which is the best? Hmm... perhaps in the long term it will be impossible to say. To make it even more controversial, Ronnie has said the current crop of players aren't as good as in previous years:

"Sullivan said: “I think the standard of snooker play has dropped dramatically on the whole, with some average stuff out there. ”I only turn up to the odd event and win a few of those, and I am not always playing well. In general, it can’t be good that a part-timer is coming along and nicking the tournaments. That’s all I am, a part-timer, and not even match-sharp. ”It’s there for anyone really, the Chinese or anyone, if I am 38 and not really practising and yet still turning up and winning my fair share of titles. If that is the case, then something has got to be wrong.”


http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-spo ... le-3174762

So who knows, perhaps Ronnie is playing amazingly well but the opposition isn't as good as back in the 1990s? He's winning against less formidable opposition?
Last edited by snooker_loopy on 04 Mar 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Cloud Strife

snooker_loopy wrote:
And another interesting stat:

Ronnie has taken almost 20 years and still hasn't reached Hendry's century break tally. Hendry got to his tally in less years and Hendry's form was never quite as good post 2000 and onwards. Hendry's form really slumped (compared to how he was playing) after his last WC win in 99


Just wanted to reply to this point.

Yes, Hendry has the most centuries currently, but I think you'll find that he has actually played more matches than Ronnie to get his tally. The centuries per frames played stat is well in favour of Ronnie and once he surpasses Hendry's mark he will have done it in far less time in real terms.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby snooker_loopy

"Yes, Hendry has the most centuries currently, but I think you'll find that he has actually played more matches than Ronnie to get his tally."


Don't take this as sarcasm, but surely Hendry was playing more matches cos he was winning more matches than O'Sullivan. Stands to reason the more matches you win the more likely you are to make big breaks! LOL Sort of basic logic, right? If you lose in round one less centuries to make, reach the final and win the event, more chance to make centuries.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby TheRocket

I voted for Ronnie O'Sullivan but I think Ray Reardon, Steve Davis and John Higgins and maybe Mark Williams too should also be added to that poll. They are all legends too and are in the debate despite Ronnie and Hendry being the main contenders.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Wildey

Cloud Strife wrote:
snooker_loopy wrote:
And another interesting stat:

Ronnie has taken almost 20 years and still hasn't reached Hendry's century break tally. Hendry got to his tally in less years and Hendry's form was never quite as good post 2000 and onwards. Hendry's form really slumped (compared to how he was playing) after his last WC win in 99


Just wanted to reply to this point.

Yes, Hendry has the most centuries currently, but I think you'll find that he has actually played more matches than Ronnie to get his tally. The centuries per frames played stat is well in favour of Ronnie and once he surpasses Hendry's mark he will have done it in far less time in real terms.

your Right but Hendry did reach 100 centuries in less tournaments than Ronnie and less matches because When Ronnie turned pro there was a million more matches as a qualifier than Hendry had.

Stats are dictated by how a player was playing.

By the End of Hendry's career he was averaging less than 10 centuries per season compared to his prime he was getting between 40 and 50 consistently.

Probably in the last 10 years Hendry made about 100 centuries

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby TheRocket

snooker_loopy wrote:
"Yes, Hendry has the most centuries currently, but I think you'll find that he has actually played more matches than Ronnie to get his tally."





Don't take this as sarcasm, but surely Hendry was playing more matches cos he was winning more matches than O'Sullivan. Stands to reason the more matches you win the more likely you are to make big breaks! LOL Sort of basic logic, right? If you lose in round one less centuries to make, reach the final and win the event, more chance to make centuries.


Dont forget though that Ronnie skipped the whole 12/13 season (except world). Its almost guaranteed that he would be very very close to Hendrys record if he had played in that season and maybe would beat the record then in this years WC.

And the fact that he played more centuries in the Crucible than Hendry has done is already a great achievement and is very special as Hendry played far more matches at the Crucible and far more frames consequently.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby vodkadiet

Trumpster

Point 1: Opinions are just those, opinions.

Point 2: So let's say O'Sullivan wins 8 world titles. Then what? Are you going to round around like a crazed madman shouting to all and sundry, "Ronnie O'Sullivan is the greatest snooker player ever, no one can argue with that".

Snooker is such a small part of the world in which we live. Miniscule infact. Even here in Britain very few people have any idea how many world titles Hendry won, Steve Davis won, O'Sullivan has won.

If and when O'Sullivan wins 8 world titles, you will be happy for a short space of time, and then realise that your life has passed you by, and O'Sullivan himself doesn't give a f**k whether you live or die.

O'Sullivan doesn't care if Vodkadiet lives or dies
Vodkadiet doesn't care if O'Sullivan lives or dies
O'Sullivan doesn't care if Trumpster lives or dies
Trumpster cares passionately about O'Sullivan as if he was his/her brother.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Sickpotter

I've always liked Ronnie's game, never been fond of some of his "fans".

Threads like this are a main reason, some fanboy writes one after every ROS victory. You just know it will devolve into a ROS v Hendry debate which has been done to death.

Can we please leave this alone until we have complete careers to debate? :hatoff:

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby edwards2000

Sickpotter wrote:Can we please leave this alone until we have complete careers to debate? :hatoff:


I'd say the verdict is unanimous. And it was when I was telling you the same thing 4 or 5 years ago. It's nice to see Wild has finally caught up, though. This is nothing to do with "fanboys", and if it is, you have only yourself to blame since you are definitely a Hendry fanboy. Ronnie fans had Hendry and his records shoved down their throats for years. And now it's paypack.

If Hendry fans in the past had been fair, then the need for revenge wouldn't be running high. I have to say that I am now at peace, and I don't feel the need to be "rubbing it in". At one point, Ronnie was on 2 World titles, and then it was easy to get around the argument by quoting titles endlessly. That's no longer an option. The majority now believe as I do. It's become an almost inevitability that Ronnie will be regarded as the greatest.

Vodkadiet does at least make one decent point. Ronnie, Hendry and the rest, certainly don't care what we think anyway.

Lastly, as I told you before, Ronnie is statistically the greatest break builder. You claimed you were writing a book to debunk me. I am still waiting for that. rofl

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Muppet147

A really crappy poll. How can you overlook someone as dominant as Steve Davis?

O'Sullivan is the greatest player of all time though, regardless of how many world titles he has now or may win in the future.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Sickpotter

When did I ever claim I was writing a book to debunk you?

If Hendry fans had been fair...... pmsl

How unfair of the Hendry fans to point out the flaws in your rationale for elevating ROS to the title of greatest ever. Terrible when people won't just agree with you isn't it? :roll:

Perhaps if you had waited until ROS was close to Hendry's records you wouldn't have seen so much abuse in your quest to elevate ROS to a position he had not earned.

Perhaps if you had avoided suggesting things like speed of play being relevant to greatness you wouldn't have had to open your own site to find support.

Ronnie has recently shown that he could take over the mantle, if he can maintain his form some of the records are a given.

I never said ROS couldn't lay claim to being the greatest, I've just said leave it alone for now. As a stat lover you should recognize that until significant records are beaten or the careers in question are over comparisons are at best flawed.

Wait until he's surpassed the records that support Hendry being the greatest and you have a point. Until then let's just stop with these kinds of threads, they obviously devolve very quickly.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Cloud Strife

Sickpotter wrote:I've always liked Ronnie's game, never been fond of some of his "fans".

Threads like this are a main reason, some fanboy writes one after every ROS victory. You just know it will devolve into a ROS v Hendry debate which has been done to death.

Can we please leave this alone until we have complete careers to debate? :hatoff:


This thread hasn't 'devolved' into a Ronnie v Hendry debate. It WAS one to begin with.

Did you not read the opening post or see the poll?

I don't know why it bothers you so much.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Sickpotter

As a newish member you wouldn't grasp it.

The who's the greatest Hendry vs ROS has been done to death on this site and elsewhere.

I think SN still has a thread open for those who wish to partake in the debate but for the most part it rarely yields anything beyond opinions, some of which are dubious at best.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Roland

vodkadiet wrote:Trumpster

Point 1: Opinions are just those, opinions.

Point 2: So let's say O'Sullivan wins 8 world titles. Then what? Are you going to round around like a crazed madman shouting to all and sundry, "Ronnie O'Sullivan is the greatest snooker player ever, no one can argue with that".

Snooker is such a small part of the world in which we live. Miniscule infact. Even here in Britain very few people have any idea how many world titles Hendry won, Steve Davis won, O'Sullivan has won.

If and when O'Sullivan wins 8 world titles, you will be happy for a short space of time, and then realise that your life has passed you by, and O'Sullivan himself doesn't give a f**k whether you live or die.

O'Sullivan doesn't care if Vodkadiet lives or dies
Vodkadiet doesn't care if O'Sullivan lives or dies
O'Sullivan doesn't care if Trumpster lives or dies
Trumpster cares passionately about O'Sullivan as if he was his/her brother.


:D

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Roland

I personally think John Higgins has played the best snooker I've ever seen and I don't think Hendry or Ronnie could beat him when he was playing his best. Anyway Ronnie is catching Hendry all the time with the records but he's not caught him yet. I think he will though the way he's playing at the moment but ultimately it doesn't matter because you can only be the best of your time and Ronnie is that and Hendry was that and so was Davis and so was Reardon and so was Joe Davis.

Federer has all the records in tennis, but how can he be the best of all time when he's clearly never had the measure of Nadal? Records don't mean you're the best of all time. Do performances? In which case can Higgins be classed the best of all time?

It's all just opinions at the end of the day. I've a feeling one of these Chinese kids will come along in the next few years and play even more consistently perfect snooker than we've seen before. Will they only be better than Ronnie or Hendry if they win more? Do we have to wait 20 years before we can find out? Will everyone agree? Of course they won't.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Cannonball

It's nice to see everyone sharing their views and some of them are rational and even written in English! For me, Ronnie is the greatest regardless of stats or records. He's the greatest because he can do things no-one else can, e.g. that deep screw with his wrong hand. Ronnie is magical. But hey, that's my criterion, we all have different yardsticks.

I didn't include Davis, because while he has a tonnes of titles, the first tv 147, etc etc, he himself admits Ronnie is the greatest, so he's ruled himself out! rofl I haven't included Ray Reardon either, despite his 6 world titles because Ray thinks Ronnie is the greatest, he's ruled himself out! rofl I haven't included Joe Davis because his titles were by invited challenge only, no open era. I was tempted to include Jimmy, as he's the greatest potter we've ever seen, but he's flawed in terms of success. The same with Alex, who revolutionised the game but seriously underachieved.

On a serious note, I really don't rate the stats from the Davis and Hendry era anyway. Let's be honest, you could buy a place on the tour for a few quid, it wasn't like there was a Q school. To the folk questioning modern players; I think Wildey will back me up here, but the stats suggest they're much better than they were back in Davis or Hendry's day. Davis and Hendry didn't really face much competition, and when it came along, they went into decline. Ronnie has to face Selby, Robbo, Ding, Trump, Fu, Allen, etc. Even Bingo is looking sharp. The standard is higher IMO. In which era will a hundred tonnes be completed in a single season; this era! Half the pros back in the day were off their faces; that's not competition. Ronnie also had to compete with MJW and Higgins from day 1, the likes of which Davis and Hendry avoided (in their prime).

Every coach and county player I know thinks Ronnie is the greatest. When you play to a high standard, you begin to understand why Ronnie is so special. Plenty can hit maxis, few have done it on tv. None have done it in record time on tv and none have done it swapping hands. Get the drift?

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby Sickpotter

I gotta say citing ambidextrous is really the worst reason to suggest ROS is great. For more relevant is his play and his titles.

Remember being ambidextrous is a natural gift, not something you acquire through practice. There is no skill involved being ambidextrous.

Re: Who is the Greatest Player of all Time?

Postby GJ

The greatest player ever remains Stephen Hendry at this stage.