Post a reply

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby shankly » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Roland wrote:So is that because you don't want him to win, or you think he won't?


Because I don't want him to.

As for whether he will or not.. like Wild said, I see him as part of a top tier of guys lining up to win it. Feels like a pretty open year to me, will be an interesting 17 days for sure.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andre147 » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Roland wrote:"I want Selby out simply because, well I like other players way more than him, same as a Selby fan would love if Ronnie went out first round."

Only a Ronnie fan would come out with such a statement.

Anyway the curse thing is bullocks when looking at a reason why Selby won't win this year. He's at the top of his game and will be very hard to beat over a 2/3/4 session match by any player in the world at the moment. It doesn't mean he's unbeatable, but someone is going to have to play extremely well to beat him and if that happens is that down to a curse?

The closest to breaking the "curse" was Joe Johnson and that's probably down to him being in his 30s and at his peak after a fairly long time on tour i.e. lots of experience and a late developer.

When you look back it started with Spencer and Reardon, already multiple world champions, then Griff won it from nowhere in 79 and then lost to Steve Davis who ended up being his career nemesis (so retrospectively no shock), Davis was burned out after winning everything in 81/82 (10-1 to Knowles, Davis dead on his feet). Higgins wasn't consistent enough to defend titles, Taylor probably believed in the curse and thought he'd have it easier against a young Mike "My Apologies" Hallett who had him under all sorts of pressure with his potting (believe it or not he was a very good player in his 20s). Hendry lost to Steve James who played brilliantly and wasn't afraid to win. I think it was around this time people started talking about a curse because this was probably the shock result of the 90s at the time as everyone thought Hendry would defend.

Then Doherty made the final but lost to John Higgins, and we all know how good he is. Higgins lost to Williams, and we all know how good he is. Williams had man flu (and made one of the best clearances of all time) when he lost to Swail, Ronnie made the grave error of winding up Hendry before his "curse" match. Murphy was still young and raw after a surprise win and lost to a previous winner in Ebdon which is obviously no shock result at a time when Ebdon was capable of beating anyone. Dotty got frustrated and Robbo got one of the worst round 1 draws in Crucible history.

A brief history of the Crucible Curse. There is no curse and there's nothing stopping Selby from winning it again this year and I'm backing him to do it.


If you think I'm a Ronnie fanboy, then you are just deluded I'm afraid Roland :wave: <doh> :wave: I'm probably the fairest Ronnie fan around here, same as TR, SO and Holden just to name a few. I love Snooker, and Ronnie just so happens to be my favourite player, nothing else. I love watching the others and if I were a fanboy I would stop watching when he's not playing, which CLEARLY isn't the case.

Anyway, I'm not gonna bother asnwering this in parts, I've said all I wanted to say about this Curse and I maintain my statments. I know full well the history of first time Crucible winners, I may be young but I'm a Snooker historian and love to watch matches from the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc, and know the history of the Game.

The Curse is on every player's mind because the BBC and co remind the players of it. If it had been broken, then they would have stopped spoken of it. Yes like Wild said, it was them who started this Curse thing, but then again what other name could we call it? First time Champions Syndrome?

The Curse is just a name like any other, and Sely will sucumb to it like everyone else.

I say it again though, if he somehow, somehow breaks it, I'll be the first one here on SI to say it's the greatest achievment EVER in Snooker, because a great player only has one chance in his career to break it.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Roland » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Succumb says you believe in the curse. And it wouldn't be the greatest achievement ever! That's building up the curse into something it's not.

The assumption that Selby fans want Ronnie to go out early is to misrepresent them and a reflection on how most Ronnie (and for the most part not snooker) fans feel about Selby. The vast majority of Selby fans enjoy watching Ronnie I would say.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andre147 » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Roland wrote:Succumb says you believe in the curse. And it wouldn't be the greatest achievement ever! That's building up the curse into something it's not.

The assumption that Selby fans want Ronnie to go out early is to misrepresent them and a reflection on how most Ronnie (and for the most part not snooker) fans feel about Selby. The vast majority of Selby fans enjoy watching Ronnie I would say.


If I want Selby to go out early it has abslutely nothing to do with Ronnie. Just so you know, I would love if they met again at Crucible so Ronnie has a chance to beat him, every time they face each I look very much forward to that encounter as for me it's one of the best "pairings" Snooker has ever had.

Anyway, maybe things have escalated a bit, like I say, the Curse is just a name like any other, I kinda like the name actually, so that's why I say I believe in it.

And I very much enjoy watching Selby, for me he's probably one of the best safety players ever, and for me the best ever at laying and escaping from snookers. For me it would be the greatest achievemnt ever simply because nobody has ever done it, not even Hendry who has the most titles.

We'll see how things turn out, don't get me wrong Roland, I like you and your posts are always fair, but on this one we have different opinions, and Selby being probably your favourite player nowadays means you dont believe in that Curse crap. Or maybe that's just me because I love horror movies and ghost and such things <laugh>

As I said, I don't think he'll win it this yearm but I'll be surprised if he doesnt win more than one in his career, same as Robbo.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Roland » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Of course I can't hide he's been my favourite player for a number of years now and everyone knows it but I say it how I see it. He's so hard to beat and he's at the top of his game and right now I think he's the best player in the world with the best chance of winning the worlds in a couple of months time. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he won emphatically with no close matches. There's been plenty of those down the years.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby TheRocket » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Selby has never been the best player though when it comes to playing his best game throughout a whole tournament. I've seen him many times playing one great match, scoring like a machine but in the next match he couldn't make a 40 break and struggled badly.

And that's why he probably hasn't won so many ranking titles and has a kinda weak success rate in ranking finals.

But if you're talking about his current form Roland which indeed looks very good. In 2008, he was the in-form player, having won the Masters and the Welsh. He was the current WC-Runner up and was second favourite after Ronnie to win the WC, but he lost in the first round to King.

And he's not the only person who suffered from that. If I learned something about Snooker since I've been watching it, it is that the WC always had his own laws and things can change so quickly. Someone who has had a shitty season so far can suddenly play out of skin while the tournament favourite can crumble so easily.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby masterdoctorgenius » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Roland wrote:Of course I can't hide he's been my favourite player for a number of years now and everyone knows it but I say it how I see it. He's so hard to beat and he's at the top of his game and right now I think he's the best player in the world with the best chance of winning the worlds in a couple of months time. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he won emphatically with no close matches. There's been plenty of those down the years.


every1 has his opinion. but i dont think he is the best player right now. murphy, ronnie and trump are in better form and showed consistency in this season whereas selby did nothing until now.

would love if selby meets higgins in the 2nd round of the WC

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby V.V » 10 Feb 2015 Read

Roland wrote:Succumb says you believe in the curse. And it wouldn't be the greatest achievement ever! That's building up the curse into something it's not.

The assumption that Selby fans want Ronnie to go out early is to misrepresent them and a reflection on how most Ronnie (and for the most part not snooker) fans feel about Selby. The vast majority of Selby fans enjoy watching Ronnie I would say.


You are right about us Selby fans.

When this Selby-Sullivan stuff escalated to become like this? Ronnie fans seem to be more bothered about selby than about anybody else which is weird if you think about it.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby SnookerFan » 10 Feb 2015 Read

You know, I posted this thread as a joke.

I was getting annoyed by people keep bleating on about the Crucible Curse whilst The German Masters was on, so posted a thread about it. Moving it from the GM subforum to the World Champioship one diminishes the sarcasm with which it was intended. It's lead to a serious snooker discussion, dammit. :grrr:

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby SnookerFan » 10 Feb 2015 Read

masterdoctorgenius wrote:every1 has his opinion. but i dont think he is the best player right now. murphy, ronnie and trump are in better form and showed consistency in this season whereas selby did nothing until now.


Selby beat both Murphy and Trump on his way to winning the German Masters.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Wildey » 10 Feb 2015 Read

SnookerFan wrote:You know, I posted this thread as a joke.

I was getting annoyed by people keep bleating on about the Crucible Curse whilst The German Masters was on, so posted a thread about it. Moving it from the GM subforum to the World Champioship one diminishes the sarcasm with which it was intended. It's lead to a serious snooker discussion, dammit. :grrr:

you should not post joke threads in snooker section they are being filtered on to twitter and Facebook.

keep sarcasm and joke threads in the junkyard.

this topic is genuine otherwise id have moved it in to the junkyard because so many people actially bellieve in this rubbish.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby SnookerFan » 11 Feb 2015 Read

Wildey wrote:you should not post joke threads in snooker section they are being filtered on to twitter and Facebook.

keep sarcasm and joke threads in the junkyard.

this topic is genuine otherwise id have moved it in to the junkyard because so many people actially bellieve in this rubbish.


I say it's a joke thread, but so many people were discussing it rather than discussing the semis and final at the German Masters, I figured having their own thread might stop them doing it in the live thread. :-D

The Crucible Curse, as my good friend and colleague Sundaygirl said, is a self fulfilling prophecy at times. So it can almost be a real thing. I said the year Robbo was the defending champion that breaking the curse can be difficult, because each new first time defending champion will know of the "curse", and know they'll be the first person to break it. That adds a mental pressure they wouldn't normally have. The BBC will be going on about it like there's no tomorrow as well. You need an immense mental strength to be able to win The Crucible as it is, you don't need others banging on at you that you'd be the first person to achieve something. Can't help.

What is was being used on here for, though, was a stick to beat Selby with. Whenever Selby gets into a final, there's a certain type of fan who has to find a reason to have a pop at him. It used to be that he'd only won one ranker, despite having the Masters as well.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Wildey » 11 Feb 2015 Read

the only stick that matters is a cue. and selby will or will not use it to beat his oponments with.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby SnookerFan » 12 Feb 2015 Read

Wildey wrote:the only stick that matters is a cue. and selby will or will not use it to beat his oponments with.


You know what I mean.

If you're going to be the first person to achieve something, however trivial that may seem, it's going to add extra pressure to the player.

If anybody can handle it, it's Selby though.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andy Spark » 12 Feb 2015 Read

The curse is real, Mark needs to pay a visit to Ray "Dracula" Reardon, I feel Ray might be the only one with the power to reverse the curse. :stir: Failing that Dark Mavis...

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andre147 » 12 Feb 2015 Read

Andy Spark wrote:The curse is real, Mark needs to pay a visit to Ray "Dracula" Reardon, I feel Ray might be the only one with the power to reverse the curse. :stir: Failing that Dark Mavis...


The movie The Grudge should give him some inspiration as well :evilgrin: :-D

But SF is right, if you're going to try and achieve something even the true greats of the game couldn't achieve, no matter what some say it will put that extra bit of pressure on that particular player.

I hope the BBC and co bore Selby to death with this Curse thing like they have done in previous years with other players. <cool>

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby GreenRiver » 12 Feb 2015 Read

If anything the so called "Crucible curse" will increase Selby's chances of winning because the law of averages says that the longer the curse continues the more likely it is to be broken.

Throughout boxing history lots of great fighters attempted and failed to regain the World Heavyweight Championship - Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, Jersey Joe Walcott - and it became boxing's equivalent to the Crucible curse.

Eventually, however, Floyd Patterson managed to prove that this was just superstition by becoming the first man to regain the title. Later on Muhammad Ali also managed to regain the title.

I'm not saying that Selby will definitely win it - there are certainly other players around capable of beating him - but I wouldn't rule Selby out on the basis of the curse. I think Mark will have to play better than he did last year to win again though. In all honesty, I didn't think the standard of play was that spectacular for a World Final.

If Selby does win it, it will be a great achievement but I don't think it will be the greatest achievement in snooker history.

Hendry's 7 titles is a greater achievement. So is Robbos 100 centuries in a season. Also, Ronnie winning triple crown titles in 3 different decades and World Championships over 10 years apart. To me longevity is more impressive than winning 2 in a row.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andre147 » 12 Feb 2015 Read

GreenRiver wrote:If anything the so called "Crucible curse" will increase Selby's chances of winning because the law of averages says that the longer the curse continues the more likely it is to be broken.

Throughout boxing history lots of great fighters attempted and failed to regain the World Heavyweight Championship - Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Max Schmeling, Jersey Joe Walcott - and it became boxing's equivalent to the Crucible curse.

Eventually, however, Floyd Patterson managed to prove that this was just superstition by becoming the first man to regain the title. Later on Muhammad Ali also managed to regain the title.

I'm not saying that Selby will definitely win it - there are certainly other players around capable of beating him - but I wouldn't rule Selby out on the basis of the curse. I think Mark will have to play better than he did last year to win again though. In all honesty, I didn't think the standard of play was that spectacular for a World Final.

If Selby does win it, it will be a great achievement but I don't think it will be the greatest achievement in snooker history.

Hendry's 7 titles is a greater achievement. So is Robbos 100 centuries in a season. Also, Ronnie winning triple crown titles in 3 different decades and World Championships over 10 years apart. To me longevity is more impressive than winning 2 in a row.


Very good post mate, my thoughts exactly <ok>

I wouldnt say Robbos 100 tons would top Selby breaking the Curse, because it just wouldnt,as breaking it would be one of the greatest achievemnts ever, but yeah the other examples you gave are spot on, I'm glad you refered the Ronnie's Triple Crown tournaments in 3 different decades, a lot of people here don't seem to value that but Ronnie's longevity in the game is something quite remarkable indeed, as you rightly say.

It could make Selby hungrier to break the Curse, but fact is it will put a lot of expectation on him. He is good enough to break it, but I totally agree that if he somehow does it he'll have to play better Snooker than last year.

It all adds to the excitment this Curse thing.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andre147 » 12 Feb 2015 Read

AC or LT? wrote:Ronnie's never won a true triple crown, let alone in three different decades.


duh, he's refering to winning the Majors in 3 DIFFERENT decades in case you didnt notice :wave: He might not have won triple crown in same season, but his longevity in the game is a much better achievemnt than that, and long may it continue.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Lou147 » 18 Mar 2015 Read

Although some of the greatest ever have failed to break the curse, the more I look at Selby the more I think he is the man to do it, purely because it'll be in his mind going into the tournament and his determination makes him almost unbeatable. Not that I want him to win it, personally would love to see Murphy win his second world title ten years on from his first.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Andre147 » 18 Mar 2015 Read

Lou147 wrote:Although some of the greatest ever have failed to break the curse, the more I look at Selby the more I think he is the man to do it, purely because it'll be in his mind going into the tournament and his determination makes him almost unbeatable. Not that I want him to win it, personally would love to see Murphy win his second world title ten years on from his first.


It was on every player's mind since they won it first time.

I don't think Selby will do it, if he does though I'll congratulate him on a brilliant achievment because that has got to be one of the, if not THE hardest thing to do in Snooker, hence no one has ever done it yet.

If Ronnie doesnt win it, yeah Murphy winning a 2nd World Title would be nice, either him or Robbo fully deserve to be multiple World Champs.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby SnookerFan » 23 Mar 2015 Read

sundaygirl wrote:Self-fulfilling prophecy the more people fail the stronger it gets and sportsmen are notoriously superstitious


I got to agree with this.

The fact that the CC is being mentioned as a thing, means all players will be aware of it. So most first time champions will have it as an added mental block to have to deal with.

Much like when Robbo was on his 99th century in a season, the 100th became the one that was difficult to make. If Selby gets to the semis, he'll be reminded in every interview; "You'll be the first to achieve something if you win here...."

Is it pressure he doesn't need?

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Wildey » 23 Mar 2015 Read

Ive herd about this Crucible curse since 1982 when Tony Knowles beat Steve Davis 10-1 and as a 11 year old kid back then to a 44 year old today ive thought what a load of bullocks every step of the way.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Snooker Overdrive » 23 Mar 2015 Read

Wildey wrote:Ive herd about this Crucible curse since 1982 when Tony Knowles beat Steve Davis 10-1 and as a 11 year old kid back then to a 44 year old today ive thought what a load of bullocks every step of the way.


Why is the curse still not broken then?

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby Wildey » 23 Mar 2015 Read

Snooker Overdrive wrote:
Wildey wrote:Ive herd about this Crucible curse since 1982 when Tony Knowles beat Steve Davis 10-1 and as a 11 year old kid back then to a 44 year old today ive thought what a load of bullocks every step of the way.


Why is the curse still not broken then?

one of those things.

its a tough event to win

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby davisfan » 24 Mar 2015 Read

Wildey wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:
Wildey wrote:Ive herd about this Crucible curse since 1982 when Tony Knowles beat Steve Davis 10-1 and as a 11 year old kid back then to a 44 year old today ive thought what a load of bullocks every step of the way.


Why is the curse still not broken then?

one of those things.

its a tough event to win


Plus snooker players are only human, and they get fatigued. The season after a WC win has to be different to the season before it in terms of increased 'workload', and this has presumably been a factor in each of the first-time champs' unsuccessful title defences. Not the only factor, of course, but a factor.

But then humans are all built different and Selby might be able to cope better than those who came before. I'm thinking his fitness/endurance levels will be better than Joe Johnson's and Dennis Taylor's, for a start.

And... there really haven't been that many first-time champs, so it's a very small sample to extrapolate a Law Of The Universe from.

Re: Will Selby break The Crucible curse?

Postby SnookerFan » 24 Mar 2015 Read

Let's get this straight, The Crucible Curse is not a thing.

When you really look at what they're saying, it's this; "Davis, Hendry and Ronnie are the only men to successfully defend a Crucible Title. None of the three did so on their first attempt." That's not particularly snappy, so a term was invented where there wasn't really a need for one.

However, as said before, as it seems to have caught on as a means for discussion every time a new champion tries to win at The Crucible, I can imagine it becomes extra pressure for a player to deal with. Winning a second World Title the year after the first brings pressure. All eyes are on you to defend your title. The last thing that you need is commentators reminding you that you'd be the first to achieve something if you did successfully defend.

Other than the psychological reasons, there's nothing else stopping a player doing it someday. The title has been defended, so somebody will defend their first one eventually.
Post a reply
   
cron