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Should Carter be granted a place at the Champion of Champions

Yes
8
67%
No
4
33%
 
Total votes : 12

Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champions

Postby PLtheRef

As some will be aware on twitter, Ali Carter's win in the General Cup has led to the discussion as to whether he should be invited into the Champion of Champions tournament which begins a fortnight tomorrow.


Currently according to the World Snooker website, the Champions of Champions list is as follows

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan (Champion of Champions; Masters; Welsh Open)
2. Mark Selby (World Championship; ET1)
3. Neil Robertson (UK Championship; Wuxi Classic)
4. Ding Junhui (German Masters; China Open; AT1)
5. Judd Trump (Championship League Snooker; Australian Goldfields Open)
6. Shaun Murphy (World Open; ET8; ET3)
7. Barry Hawkins (Players Championship Grand Final)
8. Stuart Bingham (Shanghai Masters; AT4)
9. Mark Allen (ET2)
10. Stephen Maguire (Six Red World Championship)
11. Dominic Dale (Shoot Out)
12. Steve Davis (World Seniors)

With just two events to be played out, there will be less than 16 different champions and the shortfall in players will be filled from the World Snooker rankings after the recent Bulgarian Open (ET3) event. The next four highest ranked players not already qualified are:

No.9 Marco Fu
No.11 Ricky Walden
No.12 John Higgins
No.14 Joe Perry

Now which is the second event? Obviously the International will count but I'm not sure which is the other event that World Snooker is referring to?

The question raised is would it be fair on a player who's been allocated a place according to rankings to miss out on the place in the tournament to accommodate Carter?

In the same argument is it worth remembering that if someone not already qualified for the tournament wins the International Championship then the candidate who'd miss out namely Perry would be out of the running anyway.


What are peoples thoughts on the matter? Should Carter be granted entry to the Champion of Champions?

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Wildey

Personally i dont believe 6 Reds, Shootout or World Seniors should be there either but they are so Carter has as much right as those

My List would be

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan (Champion of Champions; Masters; Welsh Open)
2. Mark Selby (World Championship; ET1)
3. Neil Robertson (UK Championship; Wuxi Classic)
4. Ding Junhui (German Masters; China Open; AT1)
5. Judd Trump (Championship League Snooker; Australian Goldfields Open)
6. Shaun Murphy (World Open; ET8; ET3)
7. Barry Hawkins (Players Championship Grand Final)
8. Stuart Bingham (Shanghai Masters; AT4)
9. Mark Allen (ET2)

then Working backwards the next 7 players that has won proper main tour events

10 Marco Fu (Aussie Open 2013/14)
11 Liang Wenbo (AT 3 2013/14)
12 Ju Reti (AT 2 2013/14)
13 Ricky Walden (ET3 2013/14)
14 Mark Williams (ET2 2013/14)
15 Joe Perry (AT 1 2013/14)
16 John Higgins (ET 1 2013/14)

That way the last 16 players that has won proper Main tour Events gets in.

however seing as thats not the case and they are going with Rankings Ali Carter ranking should have been frozen at 13 and that Frozen ranking position should elivate him ahead of Joe Perry.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Wildey

Just noticed in my way of doing it Higgins, Perry, Walden and Fu would be in and the 3 bullocks event winners Maguire, Davis and Dale would be out replaced by Liang Wenbo, Ju Reti and Mark Williams.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Dan-cat

If World Snooker really did freeze his ranking at 13 then he should be in. Looking forward to their announcement. I also heard a rumour that Doug Mountjoy may be offered a place, because he won an over 70s tourny in wales the other day with a top break of 29

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Wildey

Dan-cat wrote:If World Snooker really did freeze his ranking at 13 then he should be in. Looking forward to their announcement. I also heard a rumour that Doug Mountjoy may be offered a place, because he won an over 70s tourny in wales the other day with a top break of 29

rofl

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Roland

Winning the General Cup has nothing to do with Carter getting a spot in the COC, it's just proof that he's back and more determined than ever therefore as an entrant in the COC would stand a good chance of doing very well. Winning the General Cup has made his inclusion in the COC an issue because there are still 4 places up for grabs and had he not fallen ill he would have been there anyway.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Clara8633

Dan-cat wrote:If World Snooker really did freeze his ranking at 13 then he should be in. Looking forward to their announcement. I also heard a rumour that Doug Mountjoy may be offered a place, because he won an over 70s tourny in wales the other day with a top break of 29


That is one of the most preposterous things I've ever heard xD

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby PLtheRef

Wildey wrote:Personally i dont believe 6 Reds, Shootout or World Seniors should be there either but they are so Carter has as much right as those

My List would be

1. Ronnie O'Sullivan (Champion of Champions; Masters; Welsh Open)
2. Mark Selby (World Championship; ET1)
3. Neil Robertson (UK Championship; Wuxi Classic)
4. Ding Junhui (German Masters; China Open; AT1)
5. Judd Trump (Championship League Snooker; Australian Goldfields Open)
6. Shaun Murphy (World Open; ET8; ET3)
7. Barry Hawkins (Players Championship Grand Final)
8. Stuart Bingham (Shanghai Masters; AT4)
9. Mark Allen (ET2)

then Working backwards the next 7 players that has won proper main tour events

10 Marco Fu (Aussie Open 2013/14)
11 Liang Wenbo (AT 3 2013/14)
12 Ju Reti (AT 2 2013/14)
13 Ricky Walden (ET3 2013/14)
14 Mark Williams (ET2 2013/14)
15 Joe Perry (AT 1 2013/14)
16 John Higgins (ET 1 2013/14)

That way the last 16 players that has won proper Main tour Events gets in.

however seing as thats not the case and they are going with Rankings Ali Carter ranking should have been frozen at 13 and that Frozen ranking position should elivate him ahead of Joe Perry.


Just playing devils advocate here, but those three tournaments were sanctioned by World Snooker, whereas as far as I am aware the General Cup wasn't.

I think what the 2013 and 2014 qualifications have shown with several going to the players in the ranking list that 16 is too many for the Competition and it would be much better to hold a tournament with either 8 or 12 players.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby SnookerFan

Roland wrote:Winning the General Cup has nothing to do with Carter getting a spot in the COC, it's just proof that he's back and more determined than ever therefore as an entrant in the COC would stand a good chance of doing very well. Winning the General Cup has made his inclusion in the COC an issue because there are still 4 places up for grabs and had he not fallen ill he would have been there anyway.


Surely, it's the opposite. However small the tournament, he is now a champion. They prefer to let people in with trophies, than those without.

Doesn't the fact that he's won something, however cack, remove the debate about whether he should be there?

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby TheSaviour

In general, I very much support the idea and the concept of the wild cards. Ten years or so In Austria where Alpine Skiing is a huge sport and thing, parents told their kids to eat their vegetables because Bode Miller is eating his. And it worked. Bode was so popular there.
If there are a genuinely very popular sport stars, then take an advantage of it.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Wildey

TheSaviour wrote:In general, I very much support the idea and the concept of the wild cards. Ten years or so In Austria where Alpine Skiing is a huge sport and thing, parents told their kids to eat their vegetables because Bode Miller is eating his. And it worked. Bode was so popular there.
If there are a genuinely very popular sport stars, then take an advantage of it.

Hate Wild Cards with a passion but i understand the need for them in New countries but thats about it China or the World Snooker tour should not have any Wild Cards and earn their place on merit.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Roland

SnookerFan wrote:
Roland wrote:Winning the General Cup has nothing to do with Carter getting a spot in the COC, it's just proof that he's back and more determined than ever therefore as an entrant in the COC would stand a good chance of doing very well. Winning the General Cup has made his inclusion in the COC an issue because there are still 4 places up for grabs and had he not fallen ill he would have been there anyway.


Surely, it's the opposite. However small the tournament, he is now a champion. They prefer to let people in with trophies, than those without.

Doesn't the fact that he's won something, however cack, remove the debate about whether he should be there?


No because it's not World Snooker sanctioned. They were apparently thinking of having ex-world champions as top ups which I have to say I like the idea of. The fact is though the rules are not set in stone and it's an invitational event and I'm sure ITV will want Ali Carter in the event, as will the majority of snooker fans, and if they want it they will probably make it happen.

The fact that Carter was promised his ranking be frozen (in a more ambiguous way) though has opened the door to getting him in through the rankings top up list. So therefore it's possible to get him into the event without having to make it obvious the rules are being gently massaged to find him a spot.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby pleong0104

World Snooker and the WPBSA have announced today that Ali Carter's seeding for the remainder of the 2014/15 season will be based on a world ranking of 13

Today World Snooker just updated Carter's situation......

"Carter's ranking of 13 also applies to the Champion of Champions event in Coventry (November 3-9) which means that he will earn a place in the tournament if the last two counting tournaments - Asian Tour event two and the International Championship - are both won by players who have already qualified."

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Roland

I've got it down to Ding, Bingham or Walden needing to win AT2 in order for Carter to get a COC spot. This is assuming with quite a lot of confidence the International will be won by a player already through to the COC.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby vodkadiet

The Champion of Champions places should be only given to players winning meaningful events. The General Cup is a piece of junk.

If a player wins a full ranking event or The Masters then that should be the only criteria. If only 6 players win all the events, then there should only be 6 players taking part.

I heard that Craig Steadman won a pro-am at the Neasden snooker centre last Tuesday night, picking up £300 for his night's work, let's have him in The Champions Cup. Maybe he could into group C with Ali Carter?

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Andre147

vodkadiet wrote:The Champion of Champions places should be only given to players winning meaningful events. The General Cup is a piece of junk.

If a player wins a full ranking event or The Masters then that should be the only criteria. If only 6 players win all the events, then there should only be 6 players taking part.

I heard that Craig Steadman won a pro-am at the Neasden snooker centre last Tuesday night, picking up £300 for his night's work, let's have him in The Champions Cup. Maybe he could into group C with Ali Carter?


Yeah right rofl So if a player somehow won all the ranking events and another player won the Masters then it should only be 2 players competing right? <doh>

I do agree the criteria has gone a bit silly, but it's to reward winners, players like Ju Reti who has won an Asian PTC has more right to enter it than Steve Davis for instance who won the Seniors event. And it's not just the ranking events and the Masters, you're forgeting this very same event, the player who wins it, in this case Ronnie last season, has the right to enter it as defending champ. So if Ronnie only won this event last season, he would have been in it this year anyway, but he won the Masters and Welsh Open :-D
Last edited by Andre147 on 23 Oct 2014, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby vodkadiet

The clue is in the title, Champion of Champions. If only 4 players have won all the events they are the only ones who should be allowed to play. Otherwise you could have get a situation where someone whose best result was reaching the Welsh Open semis winning the Champion of Champions.

How the hell have 8 out of 11 posters voted that Carter plays? Is this just based on sympathy? And while we are on the subject of Carter, I thought he said he was going to retire from snooker at 30, to fly planes? And they criticised Nick Clegg for going back on tuition fees!

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Andre147

vodkadiet wrote:The clue is in the title, Champion of Champions. If only 4 players have won all the events they are the only ones who should be allowed to play. Otherwise you could have get a situation where someone whose best result was reaching the Welsh Open semis winning the Champion of Champions.

How the hell have 8 out of 11 posters voted that Carter plays? Is this just based on sympathy? And while we are on the subject of Carter, I thought he said he was going to retire from snooker at 30, to fly planes? And they criticised Nick Clegg for going back on tuition fees!


Despite what Carter went through, if he doesn't play in it then so be it, no sumpathy here whatsoever. Yeah a player could win this event without haveing won an event last season or this season until now. What I fail to see is World Snooker has more room for choice, I gave the Ju Reti example who won an Asian PTC last season, for me he has every right to be in it because he's a winner. I guess the remaining places will be decided on ranking positions, in this case Carter may get a place as his ranking was frozen.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Clara8633

vodkadiet wrote:The clue is in the title, Champion of Champions. If only 4 players have won all the events they are the only ones who should be allowed to play. Otherwise you could have get a situation where someone whose best result was reaching the Welsh Open semis winning the Champion of Champions.

How the hell have 8 out of 11 posters voted that Carter plays? Is this just based on sympathy? And while we are on the subject of Carter, I thought he said he was going to retire from snooker at 30, to fly planes? And they criticised Nick Clegg for going back on tuition fees!


If only winners are allowed to play, what if 5 people have won all the events?

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Wildey

i think there is a case where only winners over the last 2 to 3 seasons are included and if a ranking does not support the fact that a player hasent won a tournament then tough he is not included.

the title is a clue so champions only not semi finalists.

Re: Should Ali Carter get a place at the Champion of Champio

Postby Roland

I like the top up World Champions idea. If you did that this time you'd have the 4 spots being filled by Higgins, Dott, Williams and Ebdon.

Anyway, the fact is now it is highly likely that Carter will get the final spot. He's just told Barry Hearn on twitter that he's "chomping at the bit" to play in it. Who can deny him now? If any player outside of the current qualifiers wins then they will have earned their place by winning a big ranking event. They will also probably go out in the group stages because they'll be knackered.