BetVictor Welsh Open Final Discussion

NNear wrote:Something I've come to realise about this forum is that there are a lot of strong Ronnie fans but also a lot of obvious Ronnie .. well haters is a strong word but it does seem like that, so .. haters.

The other players seem much less divisive overall, even John Higgins.

Just because someone doesn't worships the ground he walks on, it doesn't make them a 'hater'.

Blavdes wrote:If you can't enjoy watching greatness then pop a pipe in your mouth, slide your slippers on and stick on the lawn green bowls instead.

Don't know about everyone else, but I'd prefer to watch a match where more than one player was playing great.

I have no doubt both will be in great shape for the final, so it will come down to mental strength in the end and the critical frame balls and such.

Skullman wrote:

NNear wrote:Something I've come to realise about this forum is that there are a lot of strong Ronnie fans but also a lot of obvious Ronnie .. well haters is a strong word but it does seem like that, so .. haters.

The other players seem much less divisive overall, even John Higgins.

Just because someone doesn't worships the ground he walks on, it doesn't make them a 'hater'.

I agree with this very much. Fantastic post. Also:

Just because someone doesn't worship the ground he walks on, doesn't mean that all of those are not 'haters'.


Good morning.

Morning. Interesting to see what'll happen if Ding can get Ronnie under pressure, which no one's done so far (except maybe John Higgins but that wasn't through good play). Then again Ronnie hasn't really allowed anyone to put him under pressure.

PS Morning Near

I know this isn't related but I dunno, seemed like a relevant place to put it for now because it's a montage of finals:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXcnXG96_88


Go to 2:05 for an old montage of eventual UK Champions!





Who is going to win the Welsh Open?

No fence-sitting now, hedge your bets!


Ronnie O'Sullivan (something like 9-7).

Skullman wrote:Morning. Interesting to see what'll happen if Ding can get Ronnie under pressure, which no one's done so far (except maybe John Higgins but that wasn't through good play). Then again Ronnie hasn't really allowed anyone to put him under pressure.

PS Morning Near

Was thinking the same thing. If someone can apply the pressure to Ronnie, will he be able to respond and keep up his level of play -- Ronnie hasn't gone through this trial yet but Ding kind of has with Walker, who wasn't playing lights out but still had Ding in a badly compromised position and Ding came through it.

I'm really excited for the final today, no doubt. Another thing I was wondering is how Ding will cope with the pressure that keeps getting needlessly bandied about upon his introductions to matches regarding his ranking event win streak.

We could be in for 5 + centuries in this match, watch out.

NNear wrote:Something I've come to realise about this forum is that there are a lot of strong Ronnie fans but also a lot of obvious Ronnie .. well haters is a strong word but it does seem like that, so .. haters.

The other players seem much less divisive overall, even John Higgins.

What I've come to realise is that if you look for evidence of bias then you can find it in basically every forum around...but I think a bit of bias here or there, imagined or real doesn't really make the forums any better or worse, the main thing is that there is a certain degree of logic to posts and the people are nice.

"Haters" is a strong word and I think it's very different from the question of bias. I don't think anybody really "hates" Ronnie round here or I wouldn't be here.

Ding has played really well under pressure this season, can he do it when Ronnie is the one putting him under pressure, that's the question. Bingham is the only man to have stood up to Ronnie in recent memory and that was highly commendable given the trouncing he received at the Crucible.

As for the forum, it's a nice spread of snooker fans. Obviously Ronnie has more fans than anyone else, he's a superstar and has been playing great televised snooker for over 20 years with all the peaks and troughs that go with it. But not everyone wants him to win all the time.

I don't hate Ronnie at all, but I got very annoyed with him a couple of years back when he started slating the game and calling it boring and talking about retiring and not signing contracts and all that stuff but since then Peters has sorted his head out and he's been far better. That said, you have to take what he says with a pinch of salt, like talking about the standard today from the perspective of someone with an enormous gift who frightens his opponents into submission.

I like it when players stand up to him, like Selby does and like Bingham now does and I hope Ding stands up to him today. If Ding is on his game he can win and if he wins it will dramatically increase his chances of Crucible success next month.

And speaking as someone who has watched Ronnie for over 20 years, I'm entitled to watch him without my jaw hitting the floor every time he clears the table. He plays the right shots and he plays them perfectly but when you've seen him dish in similar fashion so many times and hearing people talk of best clearances ever and all that stuff whenever he does it, I sometimes have to reach for the off button. Snooker badly needs someone to stand up to him at the moment and Ding is the best placed man to do so.

Andy Spark wrote:

NNear wrote:Something I've come to realise about this forum is that there are a lot of strong Ronnie fans but also a lot of obvious Ronnie .. well haters is a strong word but it does seem like that, so .. haters.

The other players seem much less divisive overall, even John Higgins.

What I've come to realise is that if you look for evidence of bias then you can find it in basically every forum around...but I think a bit of bias here or there, imagined or real doesn't really make the forums any better or worse, the main thing is that there is a certain degree of logic to posts and the people are nice.

"Haters" is a strong word and I think it's very different from the question of bias. I don't think anybody really "hates" Ronnie round here or I wouldn't be here.

Hi Andy,

I visit many sports forums and I think this is one of the very best. Just wanted to say that.

Sonny,

I enjoyed your article on Ding a lot, looking forward to the one on Trump and future ones on other current pros and maybe some from the past?

Interesting long post with good justifications for some of your frustrations with Ronnie... totally valid. Ding is probably the next true great and has the talent to perhaps dominate snooker for a significant length of time, not to the Hendry level but to the Ronnie/MarkWilliams levels that they managed at stages of their careers.

Sonny, in your opinion what does Ding do that Ronnie doesn't do and vice versa that sets them apart as individual players?

Thanks NNear and yes I hope to do the Crucible contenders before the Worlds starts although forgive me for not doing Ronnie. Believe it or not he's actually very hard to define in terms of playing style because he plays perfect snooker!

I'll definitely do some past champions as well, like Jimmy White and Steve Davis, Mark Williams and John Higgins but it's a long term hobby if you like and finding the time and desire to pontificate isn't one of my strengths. Like the interviews I'd like to build up a bank. And if anyone else has any ideas they'd like to write about and put on the blog then I'm interested to hear from you.

Difference between Ding and Ronnie... well Ronnie just gets down and plays the shots as quickly as he sees them and cues smoothly and always times the ball well. Ding as I said uses cannons more to great effect but is more considered in his shot selection. Also you know when Ding is feeling the pressure but with Ronnie you don't notice any difference, Ding sometimes has to chase position but Ronnie invariably leaves himself nicely on the next shot without having to do too much work. But they are both great break builders and clinical potters when in the balls so when the shots are obvious they don't really differ too much in style, and you usually fancy them to clear without too much trouble.

I remember Ronnie playing Milkins in the UK, and Milkins had a lead in the second frame I think and there were about 5 reds grouped on the top cushion, as soon as Ronnie came to the table the first thing he did was bring them all into play but he played the shot so well an easy clearance was left for him. I don't think many other players would've been able to do that as quickly as he did. Ding is one of them though.

Sonny, I actually think it would be in the best interests of the forum to do other players such as Selby and Robertson before Ronnie anyway. We've all heard about Ronnie again and again but having a very in depth look at some of the currently less iconic players might be more illuminating, though of course eventually I would enjoy reading an appraisal of Ronnie's game.

I think an interesting thing to consider is just what sets apart certain players. We all know Selby and J.Higgins are amazing pure tacticians and have tremendous understanding of angles and are exceptionally strong pure 'match players' at the superficial level, but they are still markedly different players -- but what makes this so?

An interesting idea for an article might be regarding the evolution of certain players. For example, I think Mark Selby developed into such a fierce competitor because he didn't have such a natural and prolific break-building game to work from. Instead, he learned to become a great break-builder while having to survive and grind out his results at the beginning of his career with pure tactics and guile, and this instilled in him his gritty character and fighting qualities.

How come being anti Selby isnt constantly called Selby Hater and yet there's just as much if not more people anti Selby on here.


Not being a fan of Ronnie is not against the law or the law of this forum its almost as if "How dare anyone criticize Ronnie" its life some you like some you dont.

Actually I will say this about Ronnie. He's the only player that when he plays the shot, and you know what he's about to do, he does it so effortlessly and makes it look so obviously easy. Like sliding in a ball down the cushion which is just off the cushion, he strokes them in and they don't touch the sides, even left handed and as someone who plays the game I'm very jealous of his ability to make those kinds of shots look so easy!

Anyway when does this final start? Hopefully 1pm then I can catch a couple of hours before heading to the club and coming back for the evening session.

Thanks for the comparison.

Ronnie seems to use subtle spins more regularly than Ding from what I tend to see. Ding's style is a bit more 'straight'. This applies in attack and in safety, I think. Ding is almost like a scientist among the balls and in judging how the reds may split or coming up with creative solutions to difficult problems when the correct shot isn't always the immediately obvious option, which are things that I understood more clearly when I read your article and watched the shots in question on youtube. Good work.

You'll have wait for Sonny for an in-depth analysis, but I think the key differences between (peak) Higgins and Selby is

1. breakbuilding although there was a period where Selby was deadly breakbuilder making multiple tons in big matches
2. Higgins goes for his shots more when he sees an opportunity to win whilst Selby is more patient. And Selby seems to be a more restrained in the starts of matches which is why goes behind so often and has to make so many comebacks.

So,the countdown is slowly starting.


I,ve finaly made up my mind who i,m gonna root for in todays final,it was a very tough decision,but i,ve decided to root for,..............
















,....................NONE OF THEM.



All i,m gonna say concerning that is,...may the best man win.



I,ve been watchin snooker since 1985/86 and i,ve never ever,not even once rooted for Ronnie,so i aint gonna root for him today neither.



If he does manage to beat Ding,i won,t be too disappointed though,as that,ll mean Ding will not have equalled Hendrys record of winning 5 tourneys in a season.

Sonny wrote:Actually I will say this about Ronnie. He's the only player that when he plays the shot, and you know what he's about to do, he does it so effortlessly and makes it look so obviously easy. Like sliding in a ball down the cushion which is just off the cushion, he strokes them in and they don't touch the sides, even left handed and as someone who plays the game I'm very jealous of his ability to make those kinds of shots look so easy!

Anyway when does this final start? Hopefully 1pm then I can catch a couple of hours before heading to the club and coming back for the evening session.

1pm and 7pm.

Ding really is a brilliant player. His positional play is fantastic, so great to watch He's actually a great all round player, his only weakness is probably his mental strength but he has worked on that. Should be a great match if both players perform.

Pah! All about protecting Hendry's records, HENDRY_FAN. ;)


The final starts in about 15 minutes as far as I'm aware.


Enjoy the match...

Skullman wrote:You'll have wait for Sonny for an in-depth analysis, but I think the key differences between (peak) Higgins and Selby is

1. breakbuilding although there was a period where Selby was deadly breakbuilder making multiple tons in big matches
2. Higgins goes for his shots more when he sees an opportunity to win whilst Selby is more patient. And Selby seems to be a more restrained in the starts of matches which is why goes behind so often and has to make so many comebacks.

I rate Selby's Breakbuilding behind only Ronnie and Ding in todays game but hes going through a period where his confidence is low and executing shots not happening for him.

but in terms of the way he thinks and the way he goes about breakbuilding only Ronnie and Ding does it better.

Yes Higgins and Selby are different players. Selby has a style like a pool player, and he's the first of a generation who developed a safety game good enough to stop the likes of the big four from getting in and scoring. People find it boring, but that's because they don't appreciate the guile and determination not to lose by playing loose shots. Selby hits the ball crisp, he relies on repeating his action and lining everything up correctly and there's more than go wrong which is why he occasionally misses shots you expect him to get whereas Higgins is just a competitive animal who knows the time attack and defend and does both to brutal effect.

hendry_fan wrote:If he does manage to beat Ding,i won,t be too disappointed though,as that,ll mean Ding will not have equalled Hendrys record of winning 5 tourneys in a season.

There's still three tournaments before the Worlds.

NNear wrote:Thanks for the comparison.

Ronnie seems to use subtle spins more regularly than Ding from what I tend to see. Ding's style is a bit more 'straight'. This applies in attack and in safety, I think. Ding is almost like a scientist among the balls and in judging how the reds may split or coming up with creative solutions to difficult problems when the correct shot isn't always the immediately obvious option, which are things that I understood more clearly when I read your article and watched the shots in question on youtube. Good work.

Yes agreed and thanks

NNear wrote:Pah! All about protecting Hendry's records, HENDRY_FAN. ;)


The final starts in about 15 minutes as far as I'm aware.


Enjoy the match...

If Ronnie wins,i might actually buy the pumpkin a drink,mind you,i,d then be very tempted to pour it all over his head.


Yep,lets enjoy this final.

Right, it's nearly time. Come on Ding

Sonny wrote:

NNear wrote:Thanks for the comparison.

Ronnie seems to use subtle spins more regularly than Ding from what I tend to see. Ding's style is a bit more 'straight'. This applies in attack and in safety, I think. Ding is almost like a scientist among the balls and in judging how the reds may split or coming up with creative solutions to difficult problems when the correct shot isn't always the immediately obvious option, which are things that I understood more clearly when I read your article and watched the shots in question on youtube. Good work.

Yes agreed and thanks

Maybe you and that Tequila bloke on YouTube should work together.