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Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby SnookerFan

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I guess we all are wondering how this event will rank.

Is it a just a pretty useless Masters "Light" or will it establish itself as another big tournament everyone desperately wants to win?

1) Price Money:
100.000 pound is a lot of money. Only 4 events offer more for the winner. So from that standpoint it has to be one of the biggest tournaments of the year.

2) Competing players:
Looks very much like the top 16. That's a bit disappointing because in that way it very much feels like a Master Light. I think only 8 elite players would have been better.

3) Prestige/ History:
Like the International Championship last year it's completely new. So it doesn't have a rich history, at least not yet. But if this event remains in the calendar for the next years, that will obviously improve.

4) Format:
At least no shot clock that's good news. Otherwise it's just like the Masters except the first round is only best of 7. I would have preferred a longer format, best of 17 in every match. With only 8 players that would have been possible.

5) Venue:
Haven't seen it yet.

Conclusion:

I very much welcome this event but I think Barry Hearn missed a trick here. Another idea to make this event more unique would be a "The Winner Takes It All" twist, meaning whoever wins the event gets all the price money. All other players, including the runner up get nothing.

What do you guys think about my assessment and my improvement proposals?



It being on ITV 4 makes the tournament slightly more interesting, for me.


It being on a channel it isn't on very often may not sound much, but I think ITV showed the snooker respect last time. It wasn't cutting off a final frame decider to show a repeat of Dad's Army like the BBC. And, without meaning to disrespect Eurosport as they show a lot of snooker that other channels aren't interested in, but it often has scheduling conflicts with other sports.

Also, if proper commentators like Clive Everton and Neil Foulds are commentating again, rather than the BBC mob going on about golf, it'll go double towards making the tournament feel prestigious. Even though it isn't.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Roland

I think it'll be a good tournament because you'll have top players playing top players in every match so the quality will be high. How prestigious it will be remains to be seen. Players will want to win it obviously but they'd rather win the UK.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Andre147

Snooker Overdrive wrote:I guess we all are wondering how this event will rank.

Is it a just a pretty useless Masters "Light" or will it establish itself as another big tournament everyone desperately wants to win?

1) Price Money:
100.000 pound is a lot of money. Only 4 events offer more for the winner. So from that standpoint it has to be one of the biggest tournaments of the year.

2) Competing players:
Looks very much like the top 16. That's a bit disappointing because in that way it very much feels like a Master Light. I think only 8 elite players would have been better.

3) Prestige/ History:
Like the International Championship last year it's completely new. So it doesn't have a rich history, at least not yet. But if this event remains in the calendar for the next years, that will obviously improve.

4) Format:
At least no shot clock that's good news. Otherwise it's just like the Masters except the first round is only best of 7. I would have preferred a longer format, best of 17 in every match. With only 8 players that would have been possible.

5) Venue:
Haven't seen it yet.

Conclusion:

I very much welcome this event but I think Barry Hearn missed a trick here. Another idea to make this event more unique would be a "The Winner Takes It All" twist, meaning whoever wins the event gets all the price money. All other players, including the runner up get nothing.

What do you guys think about my assessment and my improvement proposals?


I also share your opinion on this matter SO, and yeah it's definately a tournament which offers a lot of prize money, so all players should give 100% to win it, much like the Masters but the main problem for me I tought initially it would be a longer format, Best of 17s as you say would have been really nice.

I which they could make a final over 2 days, Best of 31 Final like the UK Champs prior to 1993 would be the icing on the cake, but I guess the organization and TV broadcasters don't want to make this sort of commitment these days, apart from the Worlds obviously.

And many of you may not know this, but in fact there has been a tournament in snooker with that ideia of "The Winner Takes It All", it was the 1999 Champions Cup, after the Charity Challenge event was dropped after 1998 and in 1999 the new tournament was contested by the players who won major tournaments in the previous season, a bit like this one. It had a prize money of £175,000, with the losers gaining nothing, and Hendry was the first winner, 7-5 over Mark Williams.

But as SnookerFan said earlier, most obviously the other players found it unfair that they received nothing and the "Wiiner Takes All" format was dropped. The event only ran for 2 more seasons, with normal prize money format, 2000 Ronnie won it after his rehab, then the last winner was John Higgins, all 3 finals Williams was the loser.

But for me this format would also seem very unfair to the players, particularly if one were to lose the Final 10-9. As for the rest of your assessment, it is like Wild said spot on. :spot on:

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

But its a extra tournament for players whose made a lot of Money invitationals aren't the bread and butter tournaments you earn the right to be there so if its winner takes all surely every player would fancy their chances of taking the cash home.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby roy142857

SnookerFan wrote:I'm not sure they'll have a winner take all event, to be honest. It would seem unfair, especially to the losing finalist. (Who may only lose by the odd frame.) And I'm not sure the players would agree to it.

Maybe some kind of prize money based on how many frames a player wins, like in the Premier League. But dunno if even that would be feasible. I admit that's an idea that I've just blurted out now, and can't be bothered to do the maths to see if it would work. Mainly because I'd doubt they'd do that either.


Might be feasible I guess. Using similar number of frames per day as they've got now to stick to television time available, could for instance make the playoffs round robin of everybody plays 4 frames against everybody in each group for £1500 per frame. So group stages £144,000. Then a 'Final Four' on the same format but £2000 per frame. £48000. Top 2 play a 19 frame final with winner taking £48000, loser taking £20000. Total money as now, £270000.

Not saying that's what should be done, just that it could be to make the tournament completely different from anything else.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby SnookerFan

Either way, I'm quite looking forward to this now. I don't really see the issue people have with it 'spoiling' The Masters. There's no issue which one is the most prestigious.

I've not got any time off for it, but it'll be nice to be able to get home and watch a best of 11 match every evening, without taping it and risking seeing the result.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby SnookerFan

Skullman wrote:Sorry to burst your bubble SF, but the best of 11 are only for the actual semis, which are on Saturday. The evening matches on the weekdays will still be best of 7.


Is it?

According to the link posted earlier in this thread, they were best of 11.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Champion_of_Champions


That's what I get for trusting Wikipedia. <doh>

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby SnookerFan

I should've just read the start of this thread, instead of relying on outside links.

Wildey wrote:The format is 3 matches per day for the first 4 day. Quarter of the draw will play down to the semi finals on those days with Semi Finals and the Final played on Saturday the 23rd and Sunday 24th of November respectively . Group Matches will be Best of 7 frames with Semi Finals best of 11 and a 19
frame Final.



<laugh>


Mr. Wild. :bowdown:

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

Watch this space

this tournament frame wise has gone up and down like a yo yo

initially it was Best of 7s Group Finals but it could easily be best of 11s by now

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby SnookerFan

Wildey wrote:Watch this space

this tournament frame wise has gone up and down like a yo yo

initially it was Best of 7s Group Finals but it could easily be best of 11s by now


That's true. <laugh>

By the time the tournament starts, it could be a pot black format.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

fridge46 wrote:According to the tournament website, the quarter-finals/group-finals/whatever-they-are-called are best-of-11.

yea they have changed it from the original plan or learned how to explain it better

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

Shaun Murphy's inclusion in a champion of champion tournament has to be the most lasy inclusion he hasent been a Winner or Champion of any tournament Big or Small since the Brazilian Masters in September 2011.

at least Gould and Mark Davis has won 3 small tournaments each since then.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby SnookerFan

Wildey wrote:Shaun Murphy's inclusion in a champion of champion tournament has to be the most lasy inclusion he hasent been a Winner or Champion of any tournament Big or Small since the Brazilian Masters in September 2011.

at least Gould and Mark Davis has won 3 small tournaments each since then.


Who would you have added?

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:
Wildey wrote:Shaun Murphy's inclusion in a champion of champion tournament has to be the most lasy inclusion he hasent been a Winner or Champion of any tournament Big or Small since the Brazilian Masters in September 2011.

at least Gould and Mark Davis has won 3 small tournaments each since then.


Who would you have added?


Winners of Tournaments

Defending Champion in this case PL Champion= Stuart Bingham
World Champion= Ronnie O'Sullivan
Championship League Winner is included same criteria as THE PL = Martin Gould
UK Champion= Mark Selby
Masters Champion= Mark Selby
Ranking Event Winners from International Championship 2012= Ding Junhui, Marco Fu, Neil Robertson, Mark Allen, Stephen Maguire, Ali Carter, Judd Trump
ET and AT Champions Working backwards from the International championship 2013 to 2012 . Liang Wenbo, Ju Reti, Ricky Walden, Mark Williams and Joe Perry
Then Novelty events like 6 Reds, Shootout etc
Then by rankings if need be

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Skullman

Have to say I disagree about having PTC winners, I think after all places for ranking event winners have been given out, it should be rankings which decide as it's the fairest way, rather than arbitrarily picking one or two PTC/minor event winners out of five+.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

Skullman wrote:Have to say I disagree about having PTC winners, I think after all places for ranking event winners have been given out, it should be rankings which decide as it's the fairest way, rather than arbitrarily picking one or two PTC/minor event winners out of five+.

its called Champion of champions not highest ranking runner ups.

yes PTC is low down the scale but its a trophy they have won and therefore a champion of some sort Murphy is not a champion at all in a long long time.

the masters is ranking based lets make this a tad different.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Skullman

My problem isn't that PTCs are minor, it's that there are more PTC winners not already qualified than spaces and it's just down to random chance who's picked and rankings seem a fairer way to pick the extras.

Unless they take another option and pick the highest ranked PTC winners which would be MJW and Perry.

Re: 888casino Champion of Champions Group Stages Discussion.

Postby Wildey

Skullman wrote:My problem isn't that PTCs are minor, it's that there are more PTC winners not already qualified than spaces and it's just down to random chance who's picked and rankings seem a fairer way to pick the extras.

Unless they take another option and pick the highest ranked PTC winners which would be MJW and Perry.

no Work Backwards during a calender year so the latest PTC Winner gets priority until they get the allocated 16 places.

if its still not full allocation then other criteria