Unless aces comes on to explain why 4 foul points were possible
Not sure Gary Thomson is giving first hand info as he's got some of the details wrong.
Sounds like a referee's nightmare. Poor guy or girl is surely gutted by it. I have several responses for this thread, but I will edit my quotes to only include the relevant passages for response.
James Bentley wrote:...
Actually, is there a precedent for this? I'd be amazed if it's not happened before.
Everyone knows it is a very long standing rule in Snooker that if a foul is NOT called by the referee or claimed by an opponent, then it is considered to be condoned. Precedent of this rule goes back to English Billiards actually when high breaks could take hours so if a player had to leave the room for a comfort break, he needed to nominate someone to keep an eye on things while he was gone. Unfortunately, this case is not so simple as claiming a foul, but instead a scoring error. I don't think there is anything in the Rules to say exactly how to handle the case, it is a purposely minimalist document, therefore appropriate action can only be inferred from what IS written. And so parallel to condoning an unclaimed foul, that is the best with which we can come up.
In terms of Snooker precedent, surely this sort of thing happens all the time at amateur level, but no one notices or cares. I doubt it has ever happened before at professional level; I expect Q School probably only has a single referee working the table. (Andre?) With a Referee AND Marker, this incident is nearly certain to be avoided. I feel awful for all parties involved, including the match winner. But we still don't have a working time machine yet so we can't go back and fix it. That would be the only way.
In terms of actual precedent, all that I can really think of is the game of Golf. If a player knowingly or even unknowingly signs a scorecard with a mistake, I believe all the pro leagues will disqualify that player from the tournament. Even if the player signs for a WORSE score than was actually played and so disadvantages himself/herself; still disqualified. Harsh. So, simplistically, the incorrect penalty points were condoned at the time, and there is nothing anyone can do about it now. Once it is in the books, it is in the books.
If you applied for a job and were rejected because someone in HR inputted the score from your interview incorrectly, and this error was discovered before the other person was given the job, you wouldn't just say 'oh well, never mind, good luck to the other fellow'.
Sorry, Cheng, can't really make that comparison. More accurate would be to say that HR filled out your application with the error, handed it to you saying, "Look this over," and you hand it back saying that all is fine. It is sad, but YOU are the one responsible for losing the job.
Given there’s no crowd I suppose scores aren’t spoken out loud by the ref? But are foul points still spoken aloud? I guess they have to be, right?
The verbalizations of the Referee are NOT for the spectators, but for the striker, the opponent, and the Marker. (But I expect in Q School, there likely is no Marker, which is really the genesis of this problem.) The Ref calls the score out loud while the Marker is tabulating it so there is redundancy and they can catch mistakes before said mistakes go into the "permanent record" as is the case here. I have seen once or twice watching Snooker on telly where the screen graphic was showing a DIFFERENT score than the "official" score. I don't know the exact technicalities of it, but the TV broadcast generates the score on the screen from their own information. Even if the Referee/Marker make a mistake, their score is OFFICIAL, not the numbers you see on telly.
The Ref is verbalizing break and penalty scores for EXACTLY this reason, that the players can verify that the call is correct. The audience is simply eavesdropping on this private conversation.
If all the info I have read in this thread is correct as I am sure it is, I feel bad for each and everyone of these people. Awful situation. I don't agree with DanCat though (sorry):
Dan-cat wrote:They've brushed it under the carpet haven't they? Potentially a life-changing mistake.
Getting out of bed in the morning is potentially a life-changing event. If you live in Australia and roll out the right side or left side, maybe a venomous spider is waiting for you and you won't see the sunset. Life is fraught with danger. If either or both of these players get to be as good as they wish to be, they will learn from this experience and never take things for granted again. I have made many, many mistakes in my own life and nearly always come out better for it. In the end, it is only a game of Snooker. All participants will be fine, even the Ref who will clearly be the most impacted by the incident.