Wuxi Classic Qualifying Discussion !!!

Tuesday 5th of June


7pm

Michael Leslie 2-5 Paul Davison
Liam Highfield 4-5 Michael Wasley
Kurt Maflin 5-3 Jamie O'Neill
Craig Steadman 5-3 Michael Wild
Cao Yupeng 4-5 Joel Walker

Wednesday 6th of June

10am

Jimmy Robertson v Thepchaiya Un-Nooh
James Wattana v Aditya Mehta
Simon Bedford v Chen Zhe
Adam Duffy v Tony DragoStreaming
Dechawat Poomjaeng v Luca Brecel Streaming
Mark Joyce v Fraser Patrick

2.30pm

Michael White v Thanawat Tirapongpaiboon Streaming
Yu Delu v Rod Lawler
Barry Pinches v Tian Pengfei
Alfie Burden v Martin O'DonnellStreaming
Li Yan v Adrian Gunnell

7pm

David Gilbert v Paul DavisonStreaming
Passakorn Suwannawat v Michael Wasley
Andy Hicks v Kurt Maflin
Liu Chuang v Craig SteadmanStreaming
Peter Lines v Joel Walker

Witz78 wrote:and the sooner the order of merit and flat 128 kick in the better

im almost losing the will to follow snooker now during this transitional period, i think Hearn should have cut to the chase and put 128 players on tour and re-jigged the rankings to order of merit, implemented flatter draws as much as possible given contracts etc

i just feel that currently between drop outs of tournaments from big names, players happy to win their opening game etc thats theres a serious lack of ambition from so many players.

It seems that the top guys are pretty much only interested in the big 3 events now with any other wins a bonus but not really their priority.

Take Gould for example, as far as im aware (bar the PTC finals) hes never ever reached the quarters of a ranker, is he really worthy of a place in the top 16???

The order of merit will reward winners instead of just consistency (winning opening game pretty much) so players will be motivated far more than at present i feel where theres a sense of complacency and staleness almost.

you are compleatly missing the point in rankings its always been consistancy based Take Ali Carter under Money Order of merit he would be top 8 after fluking a World Final his Correct Possition is where he currently is out of the top 16 because hes been absalutly marmite.

another Take Ebdon winning in China does he deserve to be top 16 based on one result/Fluke does he buck another player thats been beyond rubbish.

Wild WC wrote:

Witz78 wrote:and the sooner the order of merit and flat 128 kick in the better

im almost losing the will to follow snooker now during this transitional period, i think Hearn should have cut to the chase and put 128 players on tour and re-jigged the rankings to order of merit, implemented flatter draws as much as possible given contracts etc

i just feel that currently between drop outs of tournaments from big names, players happy to win their opening game etc thats theres a serious lack of ambition from so many players.

It seems that the top guys are pretty much only interested in the big 3 events now with any other wins a bonus but not really their priority.

Take Gould for example, as far as im aware (bar the PTC finals) hes never ever reached the quarters of a ranker, is he really worthy of a place in the top 16???

The order of merit will reward winners instead of just consistency (winning opening game pretty much) so players will be motivated far more than at present i feel where theres a sense of complacency and staleness almost.

you are compleatly missing the point in rankings its always been consistancy based Take Ali Carter under Money Order of merit he would be top 8 after fluking a World Final his Correct Possition is where he currently is out of the top 16 because hes been absalutly marmite.

another Take Ebdon winning in China does he deserve to be top 16 based on one result/Fluke does he buck another player thats been beyond rubbish.

on the flipside somebody like Gould in the top 16 without ever having reached a proper ranking quarter final is just as absurd.

I dont miss THE point one bit just cos i differ from you on this.

You miss MY point so id say your the one missing THE point.

Anyway the games going nowhere overly rewarding mediocrity which this consistency weighted set up is doing presently. Id far sooner see achievments (winning a ranker, reaching a world final) rewarded over an opening round win here and there.

Things are far too weighted towards the PTCs and winning your first game in main rankers, than they are for doing well in tournaments.

Tennis and Golf properly reward winners far better.

As usual the old "its always been this way rewarding consistency" attitude comes through. Well, its time to move on and kick the sport into the 21st century properly so we have a tour of hungry winners with the right attitude and mentality rather than a load happy just to go through the motions and earn their crust.

I dont see Nadals, Djokovics, McIllroys, Donalds etc of this world being happy to settle for 2nd best, even though theres almost far more reason and less motivation for them to, given their far wealthier than snooker players will ever be. There driven by winning over money. Thats a philosophy you always go on about, so once you wake up and smell the coffee you might realise rewarding winners will raise the snooker bar back up to the late 90s / early 00s standards again.

@wild … you don't "fluke" two world finals, you don't fluke beating a guy like Trump in a decider coming from 9-12 down. Ali is a much under-rated player and far better than most give him credit for.

@witz I agree with you that it should be about winning, not about being a "good boy" playing in everything, and mere consistency. Only one small point, in tennis and golf they can afford to be driven by winning above money because there is enough money to make a good living out of it anyway. When you struggle to make ends meet day in day out, then those more immediate concerns take precedence, especially when you have responsibilities towards others (children, family etc… ). That's just the reality of every days life. I'm all for the flat structure and players who do win their first match should be able to break even (no luxury). Those who don't should get nothing.

last season both ebdon and carter was useless one good run should never be enough for top 16

regarding gould he isnt in the top 8 Carter would be in money list and proberbly safe for the next season where as Gould has a fight on to keep his top 16 this year.

Carter suffered severe health problems that ruined most of his season. Him getting to the World Final for the second time on the back of that proves that he's actually a top 8 player and is a credit to his will power and drive to win.

And a credit to Judd for throwing the match away he nearly won playing his B game.

Monique wrote:Carter suffered severe health problems that ruined most of his season. Him getting to the World Final for the second time on the back of that proves that he's actually a top 8 player and is a credit to his will power and drive to win.

to be honest Health Problems means rubbish unless his ranking was Frozen whitch it wasent so how rubbish he was regarding health has to be frank sod all to do with it ...

He was rubbish a World Run would have saved him in the Money List.

Well if Carter has the Crohn's under wraps this season and plays like he did before last season, we'll see where he truly belongs in the rankings. Personally I think he'll be around 7-11. He's good enough to be a top8 player but so are about nine other players (don't ask me how that works ).

Skullman wrote:Well if Carter has the Crohn's under wraps this season and plays like he did before last season, we'll see where he truly belongs in the rankings. Personally I think he'll be around 7-11. He's good enough to be a top8 player but so are about nine other players (don't ask me how that works ).

If Carter is Good enough for Top 8 sorry to say too many players are under performing badly he is a top 16 player at his best Never top 8 his 2 Ranking Event wins has come when he Played debutant journeymen in Finals Swail and Burnett as of yet he is a unproven player in Finals under Pressure from a Top Top player.

I could watch drago all day long, so fascinating to watch and a great character with a superb style. Need a few more of them

randam05 wrote:I could watch drago all day long, so fascinating to watch and a great character with a superb style. Need a few more of them

need a few more fast losers aslong they are fascinating lol

WONDERFUL 47 CLEARANCE FROM TONY TO PINCH THAT FRAME ON THE BLACK!! From 3-0 down its 3-3, COME ON TONY!

Come on Sir. Luca.

Adi Just two more matches until a venue. And he's got Jimmy White next so he's almost guaranteed to be on the stream tomorrow.

Wild WC wrote:

Skullman wrote:Well if Carter has the Crohn's under wraps this season and plays like he did before last season, we'll see where he truly belongs in the rankings. Personally I think he'll be around 7-11. He's good enough to be a top8 player but so are about nine other players (don't ask me how that works ).

If Carter is Good enough for Top 8 sorry to say too many players are under performing badly he is a top 16 player at his best Never top 8 his 2 Ranking Event wins has come when he Played debutant journeymen in Finals Swail and Burnett as of yet he is a unproven player in Finals under Pressure from a Top Top player.

regardless of rankings and ranking systems, the fact is that under the current system the top 16 is full of underperformers who arent worthy of being elite. Carter reaching the world final (his 2nd in 5 seasons) points to this.

Witz78 wrote:

Wild WC wrote:

Skullman wrote:Well if Carter has the Crohn's under wraps this season and plays like he did before last season, we'll see where he truly belongs in the rankings. Personally I think he'll be around 7-11. He's good enough to be a top8 player but so are about nine other players (don't ask me how that works ).

If Carter is Good enough for Top 8 sorry to say too many players are under performing badly he is a top 16 player at his best Never top 8 his 2 Ranking Event wins has come when he Played debutant journeymen in Finals Swail and Burnett as of yet he is a unproven player in Finals under Pressure from a Top Top player.

regardless of rankings and ranking systems, the fact is that under the current system the top 16 is full of underperformers who arent worthy of being elite. Carter reaching the world final (his 2nd in 5 seasons) points to this.

and how is carter being in the top 8 going to enhance that ????????

Wild WC wrote:last season both ebdon and carter was useless one good run should never be enough for top 16

regarding gould he isnt in the top 8 Carter would be in money list and proberbly safe for the next season where as Gould has a fight on to keep his top 16 this year.

id far rather see a ranking event winner and a World finalist in the top 16 than someone who never gets past the last 16 in an event or others who play well in front of one man and his dog at PTCs but do nothing else.

the proper achievments should be properly rewarded.

perhaps the money list is taking things to extremes from the position the now with ranking points set up, but for me its a better extreme than the current one which overly favours PTCs, opening games.

Surely winning a ranking final match is worth more than winning a round 1 match? Yet its not under the current system. Points far too weighted towards opening matches and the whole consistency.

Take the PTC order of merit, it works well in that it rewards winners and latter stages (semis onwards) players well, but the others are struggling with a few wins here and there, and really have to kick on and do something of note rather than just consistency and being REWARDED FOR MEDIOCRITY.

Wild WC wrote:

Witz78 wrote:

Wild WC wrote:

Skullman wrote:Well if Carter has the Crohn's under wraps this season and plays like he did before last season, we'll see where he truly belongs in the rankings. Personally I think he'll be around 7-11. He's good enough to be a top8 player but so are about nine other players (don't ask me how that works ).

If Carter is Good enough for Top 8 sorry to say too many players are under performing badly he is a top 16 player at his best Never top 8 his 2 Ranking Event wins has come when he Played debutant journeymen in Finals Swail and Burnett as of yet he is a unproven player in Finals under Pressure from a Top Top player.

regardless of rankings and ranking systems, the fact is that under the current system the top 16 is full of underperformers who arent worthy of being elite. Carter reaching the world final (his 2nd in 5 seasons) points to this.

and how is carter being in the top 8 going to enhance that ????????

hes won BIG games on the BIGGEST stage of all where the other so called BIG names and ELITE have FAILED miserably so fair play to him and he deserves it.

Im not a fan of him but his achievments in Sheffield should be properly recognised in ranking terms.

You seriously trying to argue that the current set up of the Welsh being half as important as the Worlds is true??

and the PTC series in total (13 x 2000 + 1 x 3000 ) is 290% the importance of the Worlds???

If we were talking purely in ranking points terms then id have the UK at 12,000 instead of 8,000 and the Worlds at 16,000 at least instead of 10,000.

The Worlds importance now in a season is 10,000/98,000 which is 10% importance which is far too little and totally devalues the event now.

In days gone by in 6 event Walker tour it was 10,000/43,000 which was 23% importance which is about right IMO so i feel its a joke the points tariff hasnt been accordingly increased to reflect its true significance.

Witz78 wrote:

Wild WC wrote:last season both ebdon and carter was useless one good run should never be enough for top 16

regarding gould he isnt in the top 8 Carter would be in money list and proberbly safe for the next season where as Gould has a fight on to keep his top 16 this year.

id far rather see a ranking event winner and a World finalist in the top 16 than someone who never gets past the last 16 in an event or others who play well in front of one man and his dog at PTCs but do nothing else.

Hendry should have been on top of the list of players you should want in the top 16 then but he wasent,

id rather see point system that is spread out evenly and reward consistant performance over a systain run rather than someone who can be bothered every so often.

Luca was very complacent in this frame and its come back to kick him in the balls 4-4

Luca fortunate to win the match on the final black, after his opponent missed a difficult pink.

Well done Brecel and Mehta! Hopefully Luca will adopt more matchplay as he goes along.

Rooting for the Chinese trio against the deadwood this afternoon. also hoping for TT and the MOD.

Sonny wrote:And a credit to Judd for throwing the match away he nearly won playing his B game.

Agreed. Pathetic the way he threw it away. Him and ROS would have made a much more interesting final rather than the walkovers Ronnie received in SF/F

You can only beat what's put in front of you. Carter has been in two of the last five World finals because he has deserved to be in two of the last five World finals. It's not his fault so many big names (including Trump) underperformed at the Crucible.

As for the point about whether someone like Gould is worthy of the top 16, he hasn't been brilliant but he's been consistent i.e not getting past QF's but regularly winning his last 32 match. Rightly or wrongly that's the way the rolling rankings have been set up. Rightly or wrongly the flat 128 player set up from next season will ensure no-one is able to "float" like this.

Wednesday 6th of June

10am

Jimmy Robertson 5-0 Thepchaiya Un-Nooh
James Wattana 1-5 Aditya Mehta
Simon Bedford 5-0 Chen Zhe
Adam Duffy 3-5 Tony Drago
Dechawat Poomjaeng 4-5 Luca Brecel
Mark Joyce 5-3 Fraser Patrick

Great great win for Drago, 3-0 down to win 5-3. And wow Luca, under the most pressure he knocks in this AMAZING pink and black to steal it! Incredible.

Burden seems off his game. He's literally gifting the MOD chances every frame.

Michael White 2-2 Thanawat Tirapongpaiboon
Yu Delu 1-2 Rod Lawler
Barry Pinches 2-0 Tian Pengfei
Alfie Burden 1-2 Martin O'Donnell
Li Yan 2-1 Adrian Gunnell