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Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby JIMO96

Wild WC wrote:your the idiot

you havent got a bucking clue what im tryying to explain in simplistic bucking way <doh> <doh> <doh> <doh>

seriously mate try and use your bucking brain.

in a bucking match between 2 bastard players what the buck does it matter what grunting system is in use.

seriously this PLACEE IS FULL OF IDIOTS.


Gotta love Wilds terminology :-D :-D :-D :-D

You're not trying to explain anything you bucking retard, you're trying to have the last word on what you seem to regard as your own forum, but in reality you're parading your complete ignorance for the world to see! :clap: :clap: :clap:

100% agree with your last statement though

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

JIMO96 wrote:Wild, are you so easily confused? Stupid? Or just ignorant? You don't see any difference in these 2 scenarios:

Scenario (A) Top 32 player v. Cao Kaisheng, Chinese Ranking event, qualifying round 4, Sheffield

Scenario (B) Top 32 player v. Cao Kaisheng, Chinese Ranking event, round 1, Zhangjiagang

Can you not see how one scenario gives one player a huge advantage overt the other?

Mon, I'm aware of the need for Chinese players to relocate for long spells to the UK, and it's no coincidence that Cao Yupeng, Xiao Guodong & Liu Chuang (as players who have done so) all lost today. But you cannot ignore that they are 10,000 miles from home, or that homesickness can be a factor in some of the matches they lose at Sheffield? Or that they feel extra pressure to qualify for the China Open, than, say, the Welsh Open?

If you think that I want flatter draws to stop top 16 players winning tournaments, or even that I think it would stop this trend, you have seriously missed the point.


Re-read what you wrote. I have not missed the point. My only point is that distributing the letters of invitations only four days before the start of the event was always to cause problems to the non Chinese players, and unnecessary problems, as the event was planned for a while. It also makes the whole trip unnecessarily expensive for them as they won't book their flights and hotels before they get their visas, unless they are ready to risk the loss. And the visa itself had to be fetched under emergency procedure, again causing unnecessary stress and expenses. If you think all this didn't contribute to today's results you are deluded or in bad faith.
I'm totally aware that being expats isn't making it easy for the Chinese players and having a Chinese tour would be fairer. It those APTCs prepare for that, fine. But in THIS particular event, the way it was organised hasn't helped the players who had to travel last minute, and that indeed includes Cao but for other reasons.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

Witz78 wrote:WELL JUDGING BY WILDS RESPONSE ALL I CAN SAY IS JIM 1 -0 WILD :D

PUT A SOCK IN IT FOR ONCE WILD

NO-ONES INTERESTED IN YOUR ATTENTION SEEKING RANTS ANYMORE

B-O-R-I-N-G

buck OF YOU JOCK hammer PIECE OF rubbish

EVERYONE BORED TO buck OF YOU THATS FOR SURE

You are a bit dim too aren't you. could not understand what i was saying never mind keep banging same old drum then everyone ignore you <ok>

lets Try again

How can Stephen Maguire Beat A Amataur in a tier system better than in a flat system ?

Does the Balls Change ?
Does the Rules Change ?
Does Maguire as a higher Seed got the right to win the Match ?

PLEASE COULD SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO DUM AND DUMMER WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY

because i have not got the patience to teach kids how to rubbish.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby JIMO96

Well those poor pampered UK pros have my deepest sympathies Monique, they've been ruthlessly exposed to the brutal incompetence of the WSA, the same incompetence that has prevented new overseas professionals from having a smooth start to their pro careers FOR YEARS! Just ask Lucky Vatnani (last Season), Mei Xiwen & Li Hang (2009-10), Tian Pengfei, Issara Kachaiwong & Liu Song (2007-8).

In case you've missed my point, here it is: I think there's talent in China. Lots of it. None of these results today are a shock to me, travel issues or not. And here's the important bit, pay attention: this talent is seriously diluted by the location of 100% of the qualifying events on the circuit and by the tiered qualifying system.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

Look mate seriously if thoes players you name cant win matches what difference a system makes

i take your point regarding the fairness of it all having to win 4 matches to get to last 32 but the likes of Lucky Vatnani played 14 matches last season winning just 2 http://www.snooker.org/res/index.asp?pl ... eason=2011 he was not up to the job whatever system there was.

ok he had visa issues but Christ that should have relaxed him knowing he was behind the 8 ball from the off and just let it rip if hes good enough which he clearly isn't.

and im sorry to say a lot on tour falls in to the same category its just too easy to blame structure or system.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby JIMO96

Wild, my last post was aimed at Monique who reckons that the last minute shambolic arrangements of the WSA affected the chances of the big boys; I was countering that, by suggesting that this has gone on for years at the other end of the ranking list.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

JIMO96 wrote:Well those poor pampered UK pros have my deepest sympathies Monique, they've been ruthlessly exposed to the brutal incompetence of the WSA, the same incompetence that has prevented new overseas professionals from having a smooth start to their pro careers FOR YEARS! Just ask Lucky Vatnani (last Season), Mei Xiwen & Li Hang (2009-10), Tian Pengfei, Issara Kachaiwong & Liu Song (2007-8).

In case you've missed my point, here it is: I think there's talent in China. Lots of it. None of these results today are a shock to me, travel issues or not. And here's the important bit, pay attention: this talent is seriously diluted by the location of 100% of the qualifying events on the circuit and by the tiered qualifying system.


I know there is talent in China, a lot of it and that it hasn't made it easier for them that the game was and still is based in UK, especially the qualifiers. Is that a good reason for making other players life difficult without necessity? Are those players guilty for the situation?
Do one bad make up for another bad?
I know that a lot of non european players had visa issues that crippled their season. Just like Hossein Vafaei has this season BTW. It's a shame although I'm not sure WSA has anything to do with it. But that doesn't justify what happened here and I don't think it's related in any way.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Witz78

even worse than the teired system for me is the minimum points differentials which protect those higher up who get thousands more points per season for doing nothing.

A top 16 player would get 9,660 minimum points compared to 2,760 for a tour newcomer before they play any games.

So as if it aint hard enough to make progress in snooker, the top guys and everyone a teir, or 2 above you is getting more points than you, so being as good as them isnt good enough, you have to be better than them, and even thats not good enough to get close to them.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

JIMO96 wrote:Wild, my last post was aimed at Monique who reckons that the last minute shambolic arrangements of the WSA affected the chances of the big boys; I was countering that, by suggesting that this has gone on for years at the other end of the ranking list.

im sorry and sorry for losing my rag BTW i do think the flat system is fairer but i dont necessarily think it will prove easier for players because they will encounter better players than they been losing to from the first round.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby JIMO96

Wild WC wrote:
JIMO96 wrote:Wild, my last post was aimed at Monique who reckons that the last minute shambolic arrangements of the WSA affected the chances of the big boys; I was countering that, by suggesting that this has gone on for years at the other end of the ranking list.

im sorry and sorry for losing my rag BTW i do think the flat system is fairer but i dont necessarily think it will prove easier for players because they will encounter better players than they been losing to from the first round.



Hey, that's OK buddy, we're all snooker lovers here!! :-D :-D :-D :-D

I'm just happy that guys like Ebdon, Selt, King etc got a sharp reminder of the talent outside the top 96 today, and that maybe, just maybe it made them consider for a minute how over-protected they are, and how difficult it is for young talent to challenge them for a rewarding snooker career.

We might yet see an all UK quarter final line up here, but I'll just enjoy todays developments thank you very much. If it brings localised qualifying or flat draws a tiny step closer, then even better.

For me the biggest surprise today was Murphy-conqueror Lu Ning being taken to 4-3 in his match.......hope he improves tomorrow and shows that those wild-card wins last season weren't flukes.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

And, Jim, I'm NOT about the big boys. One of the victims of the last minute arrangements was Michael Wasley, a newcomer on the tour who isn't wealthy by any means. He couldn't get things done in time. Tom Ford, Robert Milkins, Ben Woollaston, Matthew Selt and Ben Judge are not big boys.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby JIMO96

Monique wrote:
JIMO96 wrote:Well those poor pampered UK pros have my deepest sympathies Monique, they've been ruthlessly exposed to the brutal incompetence of the WSA, the same incompetence that has prevented new overseas professionals from having a smooth start to their pro careers FOR YEARS! Just ask Lucky Vatnani (last Season), Mei Xiwen & Li Hang (2009-10), Tian Pengfei, Issara Kachaiwong & Liu Song (2007-8).

In case you've missed my point, here it is: I think there's talent in China. Lots of it. None of these results today are a shock to me, travel issues or not. And here's the important bit, pay attention: this talent is seriously diluted by the location of 100% of the qualifying events on the circuit and by the tiered qualifying system.


I know there is talent in China, a lot of it and that it hasn't made it easier for them that the game was and still is based in UK, especially the qualifiers. Is that a good reason for making other players life difficult without necessity? Are those players guilty for the situation?
Do one bad make up for another bad?

I know that a lot of non european players had visa issues that crippled their season. Just like Hossein Vafaei has this season BTW. It's a shame although I'm not sure WSA has anything to do with it. But that doesn't justify what happened here and I don't think it's related in any way.


Mon, you seem determined to have an argument with me about something ;-) . Since you are better informed about WSA communications with its' players than I am, then I concede that the situation for the players I highlighted (Vatnani, Mei, Kachaiwong etc) is perhaps unrelated to the situation for the players you highlighted (the pampered Brits in Zhangjiagang right now).

It's a real pity about the Iranian players situation in particular, but he's been World Amateur Champ since early December 2011, and his first professional qualifier wasn't until June 2012. Couldn't the WSA have helped just a little bit in the intervening 6 months?

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Alpha

JIMO96 wrote:
Monique wrote:
JIMO96 wrote:Well those poor pampered UK pros have my deepest sympathies Monique, they've been ruthlessly exposed to the brutal incompetence of the WSA, the same incompetence that has prevented new overseas professionals from having a smooth start to their pro careers FOR YEARS! Just ask Lucky Vatnani (last Season), Mei Xiwen & Li Hang (2009-10), Tian Pengfei, Issara Kachaiwong & Liu Song (2007-8).

In case you've missed my point, here it is: I think there's talent in China. Lots of it. None of these results today are a shock to me, travel issues or not. And here's the important bit, pay attention: this talent is seriously diluted by the location of 100% of the qualifying events on the circuit and by the tiered qualifying system.


I know there is talent in China, a lot of it and that it hasn't made it easier for them that the game was and still is based in UK, especially the qualifiers. Is that a good reason for making other players life difficult without necessity? Are those players guilty for the situation?
Do one bad make up for another bad?

I know that a lot of non european players had visa issues that crippled their season. Just like Hossein Vafaei has this season BTW. It's a shame although I'm not sure WSA has anything to do with it. But that doesn't justify what happened here and I don't think it's related in any way.


Mon, you seem determined to have an argument with me about something ;-) . Since you are better informed about WSA communications with its' players than I am, then I concede that the situation for the players I highlighted (Vatnani, Mei, Kachaiwong etc) is perhaps unrelated to the situation for the players you highlighted (the pampered Brits in Zhangjiagang right now).

It's a real pity about the Iranian players situation in particular, but he's been World Amateur Champ since early December 2011, and his first professional qualifier wasn't until June 2012. Couldn't the WSA have helped just a little bit in the intervening 6 months?


They could have and they should have. The pampered top 16ers now know how the Chinese players (and Hossein Vafaei) feel.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

JIMO96 wrote:
Mon, you seem determined to have an argument with me about something ;-) . Since you are better informed about WSA communications with its' players than I am, then I concede that the situation for the players I highlighted (Vatnani, Mei, Kachaiwong etc) is perhaps unrelated to the situation for the players you highlighted (the pampered Brits in Zhangjiagang right now).

It's a real pity about the Iranian players situation in particular, but he's been World Amateur Champ since early December 2011, and his first professional qualifier wasn't until June 2012. Couldn't the WSA have helped just a little bit in the intervening 6 months?


The only honest answer about the last question is that I don't know. Iran is a particularly difficult country as I'm sure you know.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby roy142857

Wild WC wrote:does other sports have this much visa hassle ??


Wild, it's not just sport, Bollywood star Sonu Nigam pulled out of a concert at the O2 arena in April as he couldn't get a visa, interesting what he said - "Never happened in 20 years of overseas travel. Don't know whom to blame. Our entire team's time and repute has been wasted"

I think the smaller the sport, the less inclined they are to sort Visas. And any country with a high Muslim population seems to get worse problems. But it does hit other sports, caused problems for West Indies at the start of their cricket tour this year:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricke ... blems.html

and been other cases such as Aussie Mitchell Starc joining Yorkshire:

http://web.orange.co.uk/article/sports/ ... rc_arrival

women's soccer too:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17356221

It was initially a real headache for riders in equestrian events at the Olympics, because a number of them sensibly wanted to train in the UK with their horses in the run up to the Olympics but found sports visas only gave them limited time, particularly those who had already been here for other competitions. Australian and American riders had to move to France or the Netherlands whilst awaiting their visas being sorted out. At least the London organising committee dived in on the problem when it came to light last autumn, so it got sorted.

Edit: Hits ordinary people simply seeking travel visas too. From Travelbite website "Research conducted by ETOA [European Tour Operators Association] reveals that hundreds of millions of pounds are lost to the UK economy every year because the visa process is so alienating that applicants give up and decide to go elsewhere ... UK Visa's require forms to be filled out in English, are much longer than other applications [for EU countries] and prospective visitors have to submit fingerprints, a photo, and make themselves available for an interview at a location that can be hundreds of miles from where they live".

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

Marco Fu 4-1 Fung Kwok Wai
Michael White 4-2 Chen Zifan
Zhu Yinghui 4-3 Dominic Dale
Robert Milkins 4-0 A Bulajiang
Lu Zhenwei v Alfie Burden
Stephen Lee 4-1 Shi Hanquing
Michael Wasley scr Mei Xiwen w/o
Zhang Yi 1-4 Mark Davis
Ben Woollaston 4-0 Wang Yuchen

as you can see, with just one day to recover from the grueling trip, normal service resumes and only one pro failed to win, up to now.
Now tell me it's all about "being pampered". The pros are better than the amateurs, simply, be it in UK, in China or in Timbuktu.
The whole visa saga did those who had to play on day one a big disservice, and that true for some Chinese pros, like Cao Yupeng who was playing in qualifs so had to stay in UK, as much as it is for the Brits.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

Lu Zhenwei 4-3 Alfie Burden

So that's 2 pros losing in a decider, and 6 winning comfortably. Dominic lost to Zhu Yinghui who is playing as a wilcard in Wuxi and did also last season in Beijing. So he's certainly one of the best amateurs out there.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

Wednesday 20th of June

6am

Marco Fu 4-1 Fung Guowei
Michael White 4-2 Chen Zifan
Zhu Yinghui 4-3 Dominic Dale
Robert Milkins 4-0 A Bulajiang
Lu Zhenwei 4-3 Alfie Burden
Stephen Lee 4-1 Shi Hanquing
Michael Wasley scr Mei Xiwen w/o
Zhang Yi 1-4 Mark Davis
Ben Woollaston 4-0 Wang Yuchen

Not before 9am

Mark Williams 4-3 Cai Jianzhong
Zhang Yang v Li Yuan
Stuart Bingham 4-1 Jin Long
Li Yan v Lin Shuai
Yu Delu v Zhao Xintong
Marco Fu v Tian Pengfei
Xu Xinjian v Chen Zhe
Cao Xinlong v Cao Kaisheng

Not before 12pm

Michael White v Lu Ning
Zhang Anda v Zhu Yinghui
Robert Milkins v Lu Zhenwei
Ruzi Maimaiti v Ding Junhui
Stephen Lee v Lin Yongzhi
Mei Xiwen v Mark Davis
Wang Linhan v Tom Ford
Ben Woollaston v Pan Weixing

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

Zhang Yang 1-4 Li Yuan
Li Yan 3-4 Lin Shuai
Yu Delu 1-4 Zhao Xintong
Marco Fu 1-4 Tian Pengfei
Xu Xinjian 0-4 Chen Zhe
Cao Xinlong 2-4 Cao Kaisheng

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby roy142857

Disappointed and surprised by the poor showing of the Chinese players on the Pro Tour, really thought they'd do better.

Yes, I know they had travel issues, but still ...

Interesting to see how the top ranked Chinese amateurs have performed. Ranked players are identified from comments by likahokeith on Matt's Pro Snooker blog ... would have had only a limited clue myself! Rankings include the Pro players, the ones mentioned below are the amateurs in the top 20.

Weirdly most have drawn each other. Da Hailin lost in the 2nd round to Rouzi Maimaiti and Qi Ya lost in the second round to Jin Long

In the 3rd round Jin Long was beaten by Stuart Bingham, and Maimaiti by Ding Junhui - nothing wrong with that!

In the 2nd round Chen Feilong lost to Lin Yongzhi, Li Hang lost to Cao Zinlong, and Tang Xu lost to Cai Jianzhong, in each case losses to players in the Top 20 but slightly below them in the rankings. Cao Zinlong then lost to the qualifier who beat Stephen Maguire, 42nd ranked Cao Kaisheng, in the 3rd round, and Cai Jianzhong lost 3 - 4 to Mark Williams. (Wonder if Mark knew he was playing the Chinese player who is 12th ranked including the pros?)

Mei Xiwen not yet played owing to his walkover of Michael Wasley, due to play Mark Davis. Lin Yongzhi due to play Stephen Lee in the 3rd round.

The conquerors of the Pro players seem to be players who have come through qualifying such as Lu Ning, Xu Xinjian, Zhao Xintong and Zhang Yang, or relatively lowly ranked wild cards such as Zhu Yinghui (37th) and Lin Shuai (47th). Pan Weixing who beat Liu Chuang is ranked 29th.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

Not before 12pm

Michael White 4-3 Lu Ning
Zhang Anda 4-2 Zhu Yinghui
Robert Milkins 4-0 Lu Zhenwei
Ruzi Maimaiti 0-4 Ding Junhui
Stephen Lee 4-0 Lin Yongzhi
Mei Xiwen 4-3 Mark Davis
Wang Linhan 3-4 Tom Ford
Ben Woollaston 4-0 Pan Weixing

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Wildey

Thursday 21st of June

Last 16
3am

Ben Woollaston v Cao Kaisheng

Not before 6am

Li Yuan v Zhang Anda
Stuart Bingham v Lin Shua
Chen Zhe v Tom Ford

Not before 9am

Mark Williams v Michael White
Robert Milkins v Ding Junhui
Stephen Lee v Zhao Xintong
Tian Pengfei v Mei Xiwen

Quarter Finals
Not before 12pm

Mark Williams/Michael White v Li Yuan/Zhang Anda
Stuart Bingham/Lin Shua v Robert Milkins/Ding Junhui
Stephen Lee/Zhao Xintong v Tian Pengfei/Mei Xiwen
Chen Zhe/Tom Ford v Ben Woollaston/Cao Kaisheng

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby kenneth79

Havent been following this much. Then again that isnt possible is it? Still its an important tournament with PTC finals spots up for grabs without commitment clauses so to speak.

Looking forward to next week with TV snooker from Wuxi when the season starts in earnest.

Re: Guotai Liqueur Asian PTC Event 1 Discussion !!!!!!

Postby Monique

Witz78 wrote:whats the latest with Gould, Trump and others whos visa applications for China next week which have been rejected


which "others"?

and the reason Martin is giving "something wrong with the invitation letter" is baffling TBH.