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Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Muppet147

Since winning the world title, Robertson has been dumped out in the first round twice and been thrashed by O'Sullivan. He may hope to get the sort of draw he got in 2010, but no one is that lucky.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Skullman

Binman wrote:Mark J Williams at his best was/is a dream of a snooker player.

Never controlled the cue ball as well as an O' Sullivan, Hendry or Higgins of course but certainly better than the so called future of snooker Judd Trump and had better medium/long range potting skills than Hendry/Higgins/ o Sullivan.

More particularly however the style of play is what stood out.

Most players move their cue towards the cue ball two/three/four/five (or in the case of ebdon,twenty) times before they play the shot but with with mark the first time he moves his cue towards the cueball is when he is playing the shot.

He was so free flowing in his prime and I found him better to watch than Ronnie because he could also pull out those breathtaking long pots.

vintage Williams.


Hell, forget 1997-2004, MJW in float mode back in 2011 was a thing of beauty to watch.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Witz78

How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Skullman

Witz78 wrote:How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?


And why exclude Reardon or does he not count because most of his titles were before the beloved Crucible? Personally I don't have them anywhere, because I had no idea how good they were in comparison to the current lot.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Witz78

Skullman wrote:
Witz78 wrote:How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?


And why exclude Reardon or does he not count because most of his titles were before the beloved Crucible? Personally I don't have them anywhere, because I had no idea how good they were in comparison to the current lot.


Mainly excluded Reardon because bulk of his were won before the Crucible era. If you include him, then why not go the whole hog and include Fred and Joe too.

Does that mean that in 20 years time, people who were born now wont include Ronnie and Hendry in their GOAT debate as they dodnt remember them though?

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

Muppet147 wrote:Since winning the world title, Robertson has been dumped out in the first round twice and been thrashed by O'Sullivan. He may hope to get the sort of draw he got in 2010, but no one is that lucky.


ronnie lost in round 1 a few times as event fav

gray and fu ring any bells

<laugh>

It happens to all top players

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby vodkadiet

Witz78 wrote:How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?


Yes, Davis is also ahead of O'Sullivan. However, Davis has a dilemma though. In order to knock Hendry off the top spot, he has to keep going on about the vastly improved standard. An improved standard that as any snooker fan knows, doesn't exist. Walden vs Hawkins emphasised that in no uncertain terms.

The thing about these debates is that opinions don't count for anything. When we are all dead, the record books will remain, and opinions of this era will have become irrelevant.

For the record the standard in the late 90s was light years ahead of today's standard, but then again that doesn't really matter. You have to win in the era you play in.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

muppet

unless yoursuggesting losing to trump in round 1 is worse than losing to gray

:parrot: rofl

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Muppet147

GJ wrote:
Muppet147 wrote:Since winning the world title, Robertson has been dumped out in the first round twice and been thrashed by O'Sullivan. He may hope to get the sort of draw he got in 2010, but no one is that lucky.


ronnie lost in round 1 a few times as event fav

gray and fu ring any bells

<laugh>

It happens to all top players


Robbo is a million miles away from being a 'top player' He will probably be booted out in round one next year too.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby vodkadiet

GJ wrote:muppet

unless yoursuggesting losing to trump in round 1 is worse than losing to gray

:parrot: rofl


O'Sullivan made 4 centuries and a 96 in the first session of that Gray match. However, in those days that wasn't enough to win a match at The Crucible. Infact O'Sullivan played better in that match than in any match this year.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

vodkadiet wrote:
GJ wrote:muppet

unless yoursuggesting losing to trump in round 1 is worse than losing to gray

:parrot: rofl


O'Sullivan made 4 centuries and a 96 in the first session of that Gray match. However, in those days that wasn't enough to win a match at The Crucible. Infact O'Sullivan played better in that match than in any match this year.


i watched some of it on youtube pockets seemed rather LARGE back then

:wave:

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

Muppet147 wrote:Milkins owns Robbo. <ok>


how mahy ranking titles does milkman own

:wave:

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

Muppet147 wrote:
GJ wrote:
Muppet147 wrote:Milkins owns Robbo. <ok>


how mahy ranking titles does milkman own




None. Which shows you what a dire performance it must have been from Robbo.


it shows it was a fluke

1 match = fluke <ok>

5 wins to be world champion = NO FLUKE :hatoff:

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Skullman

Witz78 wrote:
Skullman wrote:
Witz78 wrote:How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?


And why exclude Reardon or does he not count because most of his titles were before the beloved Crucible? Personally I don't have them anywhere, because I had no idea how good they were in comparison to the current lot.


Mainly excluded Reardon because bulk of his were won before the Crucible era. If you include him, then why not go the whole hog and include Fred and Joe too.

Does that mean that in 20 years time, people who were born now wont include Ronnie and Hendry in their GOAT debate as they dodnt remember them though?


Well Reardon played in tournaments that were almost identical in structure to the current era, no challenge matches or anything, so. Plus Joe Davis got to pick his opponents didn't he? Or at least choose anyone he disliked and prevent them from entering.

As for ROS and Hendry, say in 20 years we have a flat 128 system and we have new prolific winners, who play the 'best snooker ever' as the BBC pundits will say, will they think of those old fogeys and say they must be better? If they've never seen them play and go on others' opinion they may add them out of tokenism, but I doubt they'll think of them as GOATs. They might be even treated like John Pullman, players who won their World Titles due an antiquated system which wasn't as challenging as the system that might be in place in 20 years time.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Muppet147

GJ wrote:
Muppet147 wrote:
GJ wrote:
Muppet147 wrote:Milkins owns Robbo. <ok>


how mahy ranking titles does milkman own




None. Which shows you what a dire performance it must have been from Robbo.


it shows it was a fluke

1 match = fluke <ok>

5 wins to be world champion = NO FLUKE :hatoff:



5 wins to be world champion = four mediocre players and an old has-been.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

Muppet

Abit harsh there on ronnies draw this year

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Binman

I agree with the poster that said Williams would have defeated higgins in the 2011 worlds if it had not been for the scar of the uk final defeat of a few months earlier.

Likewise, in the previous season williams outplayed ronnie in a masters semi final but lost in excruciating fashion after getting a kick while only a few shots away from victory in the final frame.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Sickpotter

Witz78 wrote:How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?


:roll:

Don't be intentionally thick, we all know that's not the only criteria being used and comparing the titles of Joe to modern day titles is for dumbass fanboys attempting to devalue the WC yardstick. :hatoff:

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby TheRocket

AC or LT? wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:
AC or LT? wrote:
Snooker Overdrive wrote:
AC or LT? wrote:Doherty should've won at least one more world title.


Instead of?


Williams in 2003.


And Williams only 1 World Title? Doherty > Williams?


Yes Doherty is a far better player than Williams.


This is a joke. Doherty was a great player, who should have won a Masters and UK Title but he wasn't in Williams league.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby vodkadiet

GJ wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:
GJ wrote:muppet

unless yoursuggesting losing to trump in round 1 is worse than losing to gray

:parrot: rofl


O'Sullivan made 4 centuries and a 96 in the first session of that Gray match. However, in those days that wasn't enough to win a match at The Crucible. Infact O'Sullivan played better in that match than in any match this year.


i watched some of it on youtube pockets seemed rather LARGE back then

:wave:


Nothing's changed then.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby vodkadiet

Muppet147 wrote:
GJ wrote:Muppet

Abit harsh there on ronnies draw this year


If anything, Ronnie had an easier draw in 2012. Especially in the quarter final when he played some nobody.


I can't remember that match. It must have been wholly unmemorable. O'Suillvan probably can't even remember it.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Witz78

Sickpotter wrote:
Witz78 wrote:How come most people have Hendry and Ronnie as the top 2 players of all time but place Hendry at the top due to world titles won.

If thats their criteria, then surely they have to be consistent and have Davis ahead of Ronnie too then as he has more world titles. Or do they just pick and choose what suits ?


:roll:

Don't be intentionally thick, we all know that's not the only criteria being used and comparing the titles of Joe to modern day titles is for dumbass fanboys attempting to devalue the WC yardstick. :hatoff:


<doh>

STEVE Davis

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Binman wrote:I agree with the poster that said Williams would have defeated higgins in the 2011 worlds if it had not been for the scar of the uk final defeat of a few months earlier.

Likewise, in the previous season williams outplayed ronnie in a masters semi final but lost in excruciating fashion after getting a kick while only a few shots away from victory in the final frame.


Are you a Williams fan? And since when are you watching snooker?

I hope you keep posting here on Snooker Island, we need more people who know stuff about the past first hand. :hatoff:

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby TheRocket

The Major Titles (Triple Crown) titles are the most important yardstick in this Goat Debate. And the weeks as beeing a World Number 1. That's why my Top 5 List looks like this. My personal opinion.


1.Stephen Hendry 18 Majors (7x World, 5x Uk, 6x Masters) - 471 weeks on 1

2.Steve Davis 15 Majors (6x World, 6x Uk, 3x Masters) - 365 weeks on 1

3.Ronnie O'Sullivan 13 Majors (5x World, 4x Uk, 4x Masters) - 260 weeks on 1

4.John Higgins 9 Majors (4x World, 3x Uk, 2x Masters) - 197 weeks on 1

5.Mark Williams 6 Majors (2x World, 2x Uk, 2x Masters) - 176 weeks on 1

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Binman

Nice to meet you.

I am a huge fan of williams as a player, not such a fan of his sometimes cynical attitude.

I can't remember exactly when I started watching snooker but it was sometime in the 90s when I was at primary school.

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby Snooker Overdrive

Binman wrote:Nice to meet you.

I am a huge fan of williams as a player, not such a fan of his sometimes cynical attitude.

I can't remember exactly when I started watching snooker but it was sometime in the 90s when I was at primary school.


Welcome :wave:

Can you see Williams win another ranker in the next couple of seasons or are his days as a winner over?

Re: Ronnie the 5th: Mission Accomplished!

Postby GJ

vodkadiet wrote:
Muppet147 wrote:
GJ wrote:Muppet

Abit harsh there on ronnies draw this year


If anything, Ronnie had an easier draw in 2012. Especially in the quarter final when he played some nobody.


I can't remember that match. It must have been wholly unmemorable. O'Suillvan probably can't even remember it.



Like all hendos byes to finals in the 90's :wave:

His only competition was james mental midget white

<ok>