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Re: PTCs reward

Postby snooky147

Wild wrote:Eden Sharav cant afford to play in any other PTC this season and we have bloody maguire complaining <doh>


Maguire is complaining that he is being blackmailed into them, not that he can't afford them so to compare with Eden Sharav just takes it out of context. And just because some of the top players are saying it is sometimes not financially worth it does not make it untrue.

There will be some compromise I am sure next season although if Hearn opts for an Asian swing as in Tennis he should bear in mind just how many tournaments and how long players would be away for and do the sensible thing, split it in two, ie Wuxi, China,Australia then later in the season Brazil, India and China. Something along those lines. If he does them all at once no one will enter as it will just be too long away from their wives and kids, which, whether anyone here likes it or not is a factor in all of this.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

snooky147 wrote:
Wild wrote:Eden Sharav cant afford to play in any other PTC this season and we have bloody maguire complaining <doh>


Maguire is complaining that he is being blackmailed into them, not that he can't afford them so to compare with Eden Sharav just takes it out of context. And just because some of the top players are saying it is sometimes not financially worth it does not make it untrue.

There will be some compromise I am sure next season although if Hearn opts for an Asian swing as in Tennis he should bear in mind just how many tournaments and how long players would be away for and do the sensible thing, split it in two, ie Wuxi, China,Australia then later in the season Brazil, India and China. Something along those lines. If he does them all at once no one will enter as it will just be too long away from their wives and kids, which, whether anyone here likes it or not is a factor in all of this.

exactly and other players getting priced out of the market.

i say blackmail him just for moaning.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby gallantrabbit

I still think there's rather a lot of whinging going on. If there isn't the money for 128 pros then we need to cut it. Of course if there were to be a third year of PTCs at the Sheffield centre you would have to question BH's attitude to Sheffield and wonder whether it shouldn't be sold. But I still think 2 years is a very short space of time to get everything right. If Maguire actually had a bit of form he'd be whinging less.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

gallantrabbit wrote:I still think there's rather a lot of whinging going on. If there isn't the money for 128 pros then we need to cut it. Of course if there were to be a third year of PTCs at the Sheffield centre you would have to question BH's attitude to Sheffield and wonder whether it shouldn't be sold. But I still think 2 years is a very short space of time to get everything right. If Maguire actually had a bit of form he'd be whinging less.

yes that pretty much summs it up.

i just think its better to overload players with as much as possible then take away what dont work.

if you waiting to get tournaments in the perfect place on the callender for players you could be waiting for ever thats what been happening in snooker for too long trying to get the perfect events in the perfect slot its just not a perfect world and Barry Hearn realised that pretty quick.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby gallantrabbit

In a nutshell Wild. Very much most of what BH has done has been hugely positive. But people like to pick holes in anything.
Maguire has done well for himself and if he could this chip off his shoulder he could do much better. He should still be a member of the top 5 because he is able to batter so many into submission with his breakbuilding.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

gallantrabbit wrote:In a nutshell Wild. Very much most of what BH has done has been hugely positive. But people like to pick holes in anything.
Maguire has done well for himself and if he could this chip off his shoulder he could do much better. He should still be a member of the top 5 because he is able to batter so many into submission with his breakbuilding.

i can see the problem for lower rank players but Maguire made over 100K last season and it was not his best so knuckle down and play instead of moaning.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby vodkadiet

Wild wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:In a nutshell Wild. Very much most of what BH has done has been hugely positive. But people like to pick holes in anything.
Maguire has done well for himself and if he could this chip off his shoulder he could do much better. He should still be a member of the top 5 because he is able to batter so many into submission with his breakbuilding.

i can see the problem for lower rank players but Maguire made over 100K last season and it was not his best so knuckle down and play instead of moaning.


Maguire is right though, PTC's are pathetic, and Hearn is more pathetic.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

vodkadiet wrote:
Wild wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:In a nutshell Wild. Very much most of what BH has done has been hugely positive. But people like to pick holes in anything.
Maguire has done well for himself and if he could this chip off his shoulder he could do much better. He should still be a member of the top 5 because he is able to batter so many into submission with his breakbuilding.

i can see the problem for lower rank players but Maguire made over 100K last season and it was not his best so knuckle down and play instead of moaning.


Maguire is right though, PTC's are pathetic, and Hearn is more pathetic.

what was better playing in PTC or doing the housework ?

how do you realisticly think these Small events will grow by having whinging morons as players ?

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Muppet147

vodkadiet wrote:
Wild wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:In a nutshell Wild. Very much most of what BH has done has been hugely positive. But people like to pick holes in anything.
Maguire has done well for himself and if he could this chip off his shoulder he could do much better. He should still be a member of the top 5 because he is able to batter so many into submission with his breakbuilding.

i can see the problem for lower rank players but Maguire made over 100K last season and it was not his best so knuckle down and play instead of moaning.


Maguire is right though, PTC's are pathetic, and Hearn is more pathetic.


Hearn should be farmed off to the old people's home along with Alex Ferguson and Margaret Thatcher.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby vodkadiet

Muppet147 wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:
Wild wrote:
gallantrabbit wrote:In a nutshell Wild. Very much most of what BH has done has been hugely positive. But people like to pick holes in anything.
Maguire has done well for himself and if he could this chip off his shoulder he could do much better. He should still be a member of the top 5 because he is able to batter so many into submission with his breakbuilding.

i can see the problem for lower rank players but Maguire made over 100K last season and it was not his best so knuckle down and play instead of moaning.


Maguire is right though, PTC's are pathetic, and Hearn is more pathetic.


Hearn should be farmed off to the old people's home along with Alex Ferguson and Margaret Thatcher.


<ok>

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

yeh Barry will make mistakes and i was aprahensive at first but the positives definitly outweight the negatives it just these two want snooker players to do anything apart from play snooker.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

its easy for British players to say ohhhhhh its expensive to travel to events etc

Tell that to these young Players when the Best in the World comes over to their Neck of the woods

http://www.kerryman.ie/sport/kerrys-bes ... 10256.html

theres always Winners and Losers in Sport just Dont get in to sport if sometimes you cant take Losing.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Monique

here is what Ding had to say
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/sports/201 ... 944216.htm?
[/quote]Ding Junhui complains tour prize
Updated: 2011-10-20 17:56

By Wang Qingyun (chinadaily.com.cn)

Chinese snooker player Ding Junhui has complained the prize money offered for the Players Tour Championship (PTC) claiming it will leave players with "no money to eat".
The 24-year-old's criticism came after another Chinese snooker player Xiao Guodong complained last Sunday about the PTC's prize.
"Do you know what the PTC is? It's just a game in which you buy your ranking points, and you have to attend it," Xiao said in his Weibo, "I paid £1,200 (12,100 yuan) to enter the 12 events, for whose six European events I spent £3,000. I spent £1,000 in England each month and stayed on the tour for eight months."
Ding agreed by joking, "Let's take tents and food with us to the PTC."
Ding is ranked 6th and Xiao is 64th on the latest released World Professional Billiards ad Snooker Association (WPBSA) ranking.
Staged by World Snooker, the PTC consists of 12 events, with six held at the World Snooker Academy in Sheffield, England, one in Gloucester, England and the other five in mainland Europe, and lasts for about eight months.
Compared with professional tournaments, players get fewer ranking points from this game, which also takes in non-professional players.
Other than Xiao and Ding, former world number one Ronnie O'Sullivan also lashed out at the PTC by telling the Press Association that he felt "raped" playing in the game.
"They put these ranking events on and ranking points at these tournaments and it just feels like the winner's prize is not great. ...most players are going there and losing money," O'Sullivan said, quoted by the Press Association, "But they're putting ranking points on so it's forcing the players to play in it, which is not great, but what do you do? You have to go." But the World Snooker organization rejected his remarks.
"'The top prize at each PTC may only be £10,000, but the top 24 at the end of the series go through to the Grand Final, when the top prize is £70,000. Two seasons ago there were only seven or eight events on the main tour calendar; now there are nearly 30 and total prize money has virtually doubled,' The organization said in a statement.[quote]

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

if tents is needed then tents it is

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:if tents is needed then tents it is


Stop being ridiculous. The players have a real problem with those events the way they are funded now. Just read what Xiao who is not a top player says.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

im sorry monique but seriously if you list every complaint ive seen about the Snooker tour at the moment WSA will be branching out in to child care and marriage guidance its just one thing after another im sick of it TBH.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Monique

Wild wrote:im sorry monique but seriously if you list every complaint ive seen about the Snooker tour at the moment WSA will be branching out in to child care and marriage guidance its just one thing after another im sick of it TBH.


Not every complaint is serious, but those are. It's not rocket science, it's simple maths. They simply can't make a living out of what is supposed to be a profession because the prize money is not there. Oh yes it has "nearly doubled" but the events have gone from 6 to nearly 30, that "nearly x5" isn't it, costs that were covered (to an extend) by WSA, like travel and accommodations abroad are now on the players and have exploded and many just can't afford it anymore. It's that simple and if you take 5 minutes to do the maths and be honest you will stop insisting on this. It's not right full stop, and it's not sustainable over time.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Sickpotter

The quote from Ronnie about "being raped" is beautiful....... <doh>

Didn't Johnny Depp just issue a big public apology for comparing having his photo taken to being raped? Class act <ok>

I won't hold my breath something similar will come from Ronnie :john:

Don't like the pay then don't play and suffer the consequences. Nobody ever said people can always afford to pursue their chosen vocation, the vast majority do not wind up in the profession they hope for.

To be able to play on tour for 8 months and have less than 10k in expenses is phenominally cheap, I don't get that complaint at all :huh:

One last question.....where does it say that just because you qualify for a tour means you'll do well?

Blackpool is not your apprenticeship.......Blackpool is what qualifies you as worthy of an apprenticeship, your first 3-5 years on the main tour is your apprenticeship.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Roland

It's the fact he didn't hardly play in any events last year and didn't try in those he did play in that's done him in this year and why he's forced to play in the PTCs for ranking purposes. It's his own fault, no one is forcing him to play. Anyway...

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:
Wild wrote:im sorry monique but seriously if you list every complaint ive seen about the Snooker tour at the moment WSA will be branching out in to child care and marriage guidance its just one thing after another im sick of it TBH.


Not every complaint is serious, but those are. It's not rocket science, it's simple maths. They simply can't make a living out of what is supposed to be a profession because the prize money is not there. Oh yes it has "nearly doubled" but the events have gone from 6 to nearly 30, that "nearly x5" isn't it, costs that were covered (to an extend) by WSA, like travel and accommodations abroad are now on the players and have exploded and many just can't afford it anymore. It's that simple and if you take 5 minutes to do the maths and be honest you will stop insisting on this. It's not right full stop, and it's not sustainable over time.

thats just it if they complain about every thing under the sun serious complaint will not be taken serious.

there are problems there but ffs monique its a sport not charity every man for himself in sport its up to them to use their association to put over their grievance the players talk to the press to fans ie you what is SPA Doing ??? is SPA stil operational ??.

all this is is schoolground gossip and nobody really taking it to the headmaster.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Monique

Sonny wrote:It's the fact he didn't hardly play in any events last year and didn't try in those he did play in that's done him in this year and why he's forced to play in the PTCs for ranking purposes. It's his own fault, no one is forcing him to play. Anyway...


But that's not the point and you know it. The point is that as they are those events are poorly rewarded. He was not just complaining about his own situation. He's pointing out that lower ranked players are losing money on them but still forced to enter because of the ranking points. I don't think it's right by any means that players who win 3 matches still lose money and that's the case in some of the European ones.
I purposefully wrote "as they are", because some do have potential. No all though. The ones played behind closed doors in Sheffield don't, I think it's obvious enough. But they need better funding.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Roland

He's just made my day anyway by telling Wild to suck rubbish.

Seriously though Monique, he's paying for last season and he's not really in a position to speak for those players lower down the rankings, most of whom love the PTCs.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby snooky147

I think the point is to treat the PTC's as what they are and thats a glorified Pro Am. Graeme could not get into then properly until he took that sort of attitude on them this season. The bonus being they have ranking points. Thats not to say their not expensive and if you dont do well in some you can soon get seriously out of pocket.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

Sonny wrote:He's just made my day anyway by telling Wild to suck rubbish.

Seriously though Monique, he's paying for last season and he's not really in a position to speak for those players lower down the rankings, most of whom love the PTCs.

hes just lucky i know when to back down or ill be testing jason ferguson on that letter he sent out regarding players behaviour on twitter <laugh>

Re: PTCs reward

Postby gallantrabbit

WSA owes no-one a living. It's a great opportunity to get match practice and that's what it was meant for. What does the kid expect 5 grand for winning two matches?
In the days before snooker was opened up pro ams were packed with people (admittedly over one day) playing for a grand top prize, 400 runner up. And they were packed with the same sorts of players as the ones playing PTCs.
Quit complaining everyone and get on with it.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby vodkadiet

If Rigsby doesn't want to play, there are plenty queueing(cueing)up up to take his place.

Goodbye Rigsby. Make sure the door doesn't hit yer ass on the way out!

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Wildey

i do not want to get in to this again ive said enough about it rofl

but you got players across the whole snooker playing spectrom at the top to the middle to the bottom then amataurs everyone is in the same boat regarding PTC and from top end to the bottom end theres different complaints and contradicting viewpoints to it.

in the 80s i bet it wasent a barrel of laughs for Kirk Stevens or Silvino Francisco coming from the ends of the earth to play a totally British Based Game and watching as someone from romford stacking up the cash but they got on with it.

yes in globalisation its going to cost more the WSA cant afford to pay for them to travel it has to be a individual choice they will have to make you have to toss up between afford it and the ambition to improve and reach a higher level.

in 1991/1992 a lot of players started out on a dream they had to give up because they couldnt sustain it 20 years later its the same.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby vodkadiet

Wild wrote:i do not want to get in to this again ive said enough about it rofl

but you got players across the whole snooker playing spectrom at the top to the middle to the bottom then amataurs everyone is in the same boat regarding PTC and from top end to the bottom end theres different complaints and contradicting viewpoints to it.

in the 80s i bet it wasent a barrel of laughs for Kirk Stevens or Silvino Francisco coming from the ends of the earth to play a totally British Based Game and watching as someone from romford stacking up the cash but they got on with it.

yes in globalisation its going to cost more the WSA cant afford to pay for them to travel it has to be a individual choice they will have to make you have to toss up between afford it and the ambition to improve and reach a higher level.

in 1991/1992 a lot of players started out on a dream they had to give up because they couldnt sustain it 20 years later its the same.


Risgby has made a fortune out of snooker. He should be happy playing for a pint of beer. He doesn't need the money.

Snooker doesn't owe anyone a living.

If players don't like the money on offer, they can go and sign on, or clean litter off the streets, or get some Christmas work at Debenhams.

Re: PTCs reward

Postby Monique

and here you go ... this time Higgins speaking ahead of the UK.

http://www.sportinglife.com/snooker/new ... ml&BID=663
World champion John Higgins today urged World Snooker chairman Barry Hearn to spare snooker stars the misery of playing for paltry prize pots in empty venues.

Ronnie O'Sullivan recently said he felt "blackmailed" and "raped" - although he later apologised for the latter description - by the need to take part in Players Tour Championship (PTC) events to protect his world ranking.

Scotland's Stephen Maguire also said playing the PTC tournaments, which were introduced last year, made him feel like a "prostitute".

And Higgins has now joined in, arguing that World Snooker should ditch the tournaments on the PTC calendar scheduled for Sheffield's World Snooker Academy, which houses tables but no spectator access.

He can understand why O'Sullivan and Maguire find the experience so demoralising.

"They've certainly got a point," Higgins said.

"The Sheffield PTCs, playing in front of no-one, definitely need to be scrapped because nobody enjoys playing in those events.

"We've got a PTC at Sheffield starting on Monday at nine o'clock, in front of no man and his dog."

Higgins claims Hearn would be better off investing in more overseas shows, pulling in crowds where the sport is taking off as a spectator event.

Crowds approaching 1,500 flocked to the PTC tournament in Antwerp earlier this month, but once players pay their expenses many cannot cover their travel and accommodation costs, with first-round losers collecting just 200 euros, a factor which worries Higgins.

The winner takes home 10,000 euros or £10,000 for the UK events, still a small prize compared to the major ranking events.

"A lot of the younger kids are having problems paying their expenses," Higgins said.

"You're basically doubling all the players' expenses now because of all these new PTC events and they've all got to play them, because if they don't the young kids won't climb the rankings."

Higgins, 36, was speaking ahead of the UK Championship, which begins in York on Saturday, December 3.

He will be defending the title he won by thrillingly coming from 9-5 behind to beat Mark Williams 10-9 last year, when the tournament was staged in Telford.

Although Higgins has struggled since beating Judd Trump in the Crucible final in May, he is putting the work in on the practice table now.

"Obviously it's going to be a big turning point for me here in York," he said. "Then there's the Masters and the build-up to the World Championship."

He starts against England's Rory McLeod and is convinced he can find form, saying: "I'm not worried at all."


   

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