by Roland » 12 Sep 2011 Read
OK let's put this one up to the vote. Study the footage below and give your opinion on what you see:
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by GJ » 12 Sep 2011 Read
red first
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by John From London Town » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Well, the direction the red went when hit would tell me red first, but this can also happen when balls are hit simultaneously. Hard one to call. I wouldn’t mind reading our resident refs’ version of this.
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by Witz78 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
DEFINETLY glanced the edge of the red first.
cos the red was slightly glanced it only stated to move slowly but as all the topspin and pace was on the cueball it continued before fully striking the pink at full pace which made the pink move far quicker than the red which when watched at normal speed always plays an illusion on the naked eye that the pink must have been hut first as it moves far faster and further.
Just look at the white it keeps going in the same direction after it hits the pink, theres more than a balls space between pink and red so theres no way it seriously hut the pink spin back slightly glancing the red then spub forward again to chase the pink.
Clear cut as far as im concerned
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
at the time of the shot i had turned my head away was so did not see the original shot but having studied the shot last night in real time as well as in slow motion i have absolutely no doubt at all it was Red first.
mark williams sitting in his seat did not have a cat in hells chance of seeing what happened if we have to study footage to determine it and even then some ive read actually thought it was pink first. but it was clear cut for me red first.
at the angle of the shot + speed and the gap between the balls had pink got hit first the red at best would have moved towards the middle pocket straight on and not moved very far it was a run through shot so that is a no go straight away the red hit the black ball area.
also the red was ahead of the pink at the angle the cue ball moved so it had to pass the red to get to the pink so it could not be a simultaneous hit.
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by Roland » 12 Sep 2011 Read
I would put my life on it being red first. I don't even see how you could possibly think it was pink.
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Sonny wrote:I would put my life on it being red first. I don't even see how you could possibly think it was pink.
i have no doubt in cold light of day Mark Williams will see it that way
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by king.kauto » 12 Sep 2011 Read
I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.
but how could it be simultaneous if at the angle of the shot the red was ahead of the pink it had to hit red first before reaching the pink
sonny time for shot maker me thinks.
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by Casey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Sonny wrote:I would put my life on it being red first. I don't even see how you could possibly think it was pink.
Yep, I agree. The angle the white was coming at it had to be red first.
The referee can't call a foul unless he is 100% sure one has been committed.
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by Roland » 12 Sep 2011 Read
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.
Actually I put that in as a red herring because there's no such thing as simultaneous
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
id rank the possibilities like this
1 Red First
2 Hit both together
3 pink first
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by Tubberlad » 12 Sep 2011 Read
It wasn't an easy call to make, but from what I can see it was red first...
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by Witz78 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.
it only appeared simultaneous because the way the red was just glanced by the time it started moving and was noticable to the eye, the white had already careered into the pink and sent it flying.
Its a bit like if you throw a feather of the edge of a cliff the split second before you throw a brick
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by snooky147 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Have watched and replayed countless times now. Definitely PINK first.
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by GJ » 12 Sep 2011 Read
A mentally tough player would have forgotten about it and moved on and concentrated on the rest of that frame and the remaining frames.
It was red first clear as day so for once i agree with witz
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
snooky147 wrote:Have watched and replayed countless times now. Definitely PINK first.
snooky thats impossible the Gap between the balls means the red would no way hit the black spot area if he hit the pink first.
in fact if you look at the shot he did play with top spin if he had hit the pink first there was enough gap between red and pink to suggest the red wouldn't even move.
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by GJ » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Me agreeing with witz should show how serious i am on this view
.....
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by snooky147 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Wild wrote:snooky147 wrote:Have watched and replayed countless times now. Definitely PINK first.
snooky thats impossible the Gap between the balls means the red would no way hit the black spot area if he hit the pink first.
I have played it a frame at a time, just downloading some software so I can grab the relevant frames and study again, but for now I stand by PINK first.
Wild mate, you will have a pm later tonight.
RE_ our discussion of a week or so ago, have not forgotten.
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
snooky147 wrote:Wild wrote:snooky147 wrote:Have watched and replayed countless times now. Definitely PINK first.
snooky thats impossible the Gap between the balls means the red would no way hit the black spot area if he hit the pink first.
I have played it a frame at a time, just downloading some software so I can grab the relevant frames and study again, but for now I stand by PINK first.
Wild mate, you will have a pm later tonight.
RE_ our discussion of a week or so ago, have not forgotten.
ive looked at it again and again and again and more i look i could almost convince my self it was simultaneous but at the angle the white is coming towards the balls i just cant see how the white managed to go past the red to hit both together it had to feather the red before reaching the pink surely ?
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by Witz78 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
daft thing is we have a Hawkeye facility in snooker which to be honetst is a waste of time, its rarely used and is only for fans benefit to let them know if a player can see a ball or not which most of the time we know anyway.
Why not use it for these contentious decisions instead of tv replays, its used in tennis cos even slo-mo replays there and the human eye cant determine whether a balls in or not so Hawkeye would be ideal to sort out these arguments and instantly too, far quicker than the farce yesterday took.
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by Roland » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Hawkeye isn't accurate enough to make calls like this.
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by Snooker Overdrive » 12 Sep 2011 Read
I downloaded the footage and looked at every frame of the shot and both started moving in the same frame. So it is a simultaneous contact for me.
To those who say: there's no such thing as simultaneous contact. Of course one ball is always hit first but you if you can't tell with video footage what is hit first, in snooker it's simply both hit at the same time.
So that makes it a foul.
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by hitman_ronnie1 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
agree with the general consensus.
snicks the red first.
who'd be a ref.
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by Witz78 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Sonny wrote:Hawkeye isn't accurate enough to make calls like this.
how about old SW19 favourite Cyclops then?
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by hitman_ronnie1 » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Witz78 wrote:daft thing is we have a Hawkeye facility in snooker which to be honetst is a waste of time, its rarely used and is only for fans benefit to let them know if a player can see a ball or not which most of the time we know anyway.
Why not use it for these contentious decisions instead of tv replays, its used in tennis cos even slo-mo replays there and the human eye cant determine whether a balls in or not so Hawkeye would be ideal to sort out these arguments and instantly too, far quicker than the farce yesterday took.
yep.
embrace the technology.
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by Wildey » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Witz78 wrote:Sonny wrote:Hawkeye isn't accurate enough to make calls like this.
how about old SW19 favourite Cyclops then?
yes then we can have selby doing a Nastase and Williams doing a Mcenroe
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by Roland » 12 Sep 2011 Read
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by Sickpotter » 12 Sep 2011 Read
Definitely red first, the cue ball couldn't have taken the path it took after contact had it been pink first, it would've gone more towards the corner pocket.
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