Topic locked

What happens?

Red first
19
76%
Pink first
2
8%
Simultaneous
2
8%
I can't tell
2
8%
 
Total votes : 25

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby PLtheRef

Definitely red first.

Plus you would only hear one click if it was a simultaneous hit.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Wildey

PLtheRef wrote:Definitely red first.

Plus you would only hear one click if it was a simultaneous hit.

you just pleased you wasent the ref <laugh>

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Wildey

Alex0paul wrote:I thought this was a thread about a new gameshow


sponsored by SWSA LOL

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby SnookerFan

Very hard to tell, even with slow motion. The one in very, very slow motion makes it more difficult to tell. Weirdly.

Logically, it would suggest red went first just based on the position, and the direction the balls took. Even then it looks like pink, but I think that could just be a trick of the eye due to the pink reacting faster then the red.

I certainly think it's poor form Mark giving all that stick to the referee. We're having trouble sat here watching the clip over and over again on slow-mo. Let alone somebody having to make a massive call in a match. Poor form Williams. :td:

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby king.kauto

Sonny wrote:
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.


Actually I put that in as a red herring because there's no such thing as simultaneous ;-)


There IS such a thing as simultaneous contact actually, two things happening at the exact same time mate.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Witz78

king.kauto wrote:
Sonny wrote:
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.


Actually I put that in as a red herring because there's no such thing as simultaneous ;-)


There IS such a thing as simultaneous contact actually, two things happening at the exact same time mate.


this has to be the most famous example of a simultaneous hit

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby PLtheRef

Sonny wrote:
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.


Actually I put that in as a red herring because there's no such thing as simultaneous ;-)


Which rules do you follow? :shock:

The simultaneous is covered in the rules - if there is one click then it is a simultaneous - if you have two seperate clicks then it cannot be simultaneous as it is in this situation.

First instance watching it at the same speed Eirian saw it I think that it was the Red first, and watching over and over I reach the same outcome.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Roland

Realistically there is next to zero chance of a simultaneous hit. You're talking to someone who deals in nano and femto levels on a daily basis. A simultaneous hit in snooker is a judgement call because in the history of snooker there won't ever have been a genuine simultaneous hit when you get down to the molecular level.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Roland

Anyway, sorry for being a smart bottom. The fact is the two stills on the previous page clearly show the white to be travelling on a different path as it hits the pink to the path it was taking before making contact with a ball. The first still shows the red is in the way to the clean hit on the pink because the blur of the white shows the direction. But aside from that, you could tell in the original clip which is what Eirian saw at the time that it was red first which is why he made the call. It's case closed as far as I'm concerned and to be brutally honest if you think it hit the pink first then you need your head testing.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Casey

Witz78 wrote:
king.kauto wrote:
Sonny wrote:
king.kauto wrote:I would say it was simultaneous contact all day long, yes the red moved, at the same time the pink did too.


Actually I put that in as a red herring because there's no such thing as simultaneous ;-)


There IS such a thing as simultaneous contact actually, two things happening at the exact same time mate.


this has to be the most famous example of a simultaneous hit



Only Higgins would have taken on that shot :bowdown: Although I thought he hit the 9 ball first.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby gallantrabbit

Molecular??? Not sure Eiran's glasses are up to that...
Must have been a tough call for yesterday with the two marks involved. Shame Mr Williams will be cooling off this week instead of getting his 'arris on a plane out here

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Roland

That was an amazing shot to even think of! But it was 2 ball first.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Wildey

Casey wrote:
Only Higgins would have taken on that shot :bowdown: Although I thought he hit the 9 ball first.


Jimmy's face was a picture <laugh>

in his later life post 1990 i at one point thought Alex would move in to pool the game was so him where you could be creative with shot selections.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby SnookerFan

World Snooker are looking into this;

http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -pink.html

Now, usually I would assume that they'd reach a speedy conclusion sometime around summer 2013, but I see Alain Chamberlain is getting involved. So expect him to decide that it was all Selby's fault, sometime around lunch tomorrow.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Wildey

SnookerFan wrote:World Snooker are looking into this;

http://snookerscene.blogspot.com/2011/0 ... -pink.html

Now, usually I would assume that they'd reach a speedy conclusion sometime around summer 2013, but I see Alain Chamberlain is getting involved. So expect him to decide that it was all Selby's fault, sometime around lunch tomorrow.

rofl

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby snookercue

Maybe I's stupid, lol, but I don't understand this :

If the decision was the red was hit first, it was no foul. But why did Selby continue after the decision was made, it surely was Williams turn.

Snookercue

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Wildey

Monique wrote:Williams did play his turn. Took a very difficult attempt to a pot and missed it.

but i fancied mark to get it he is so good at rolling balls whitch was needed with that shot but his brain was scrambled and missed it.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Roland

I didn't fancy him to get it. I've never seen it because my live feed froze for a few seconds just as he was getting down on the shot but the red he left Selby was a sitter. He wasn't forced into going for it either and was perhaps the wrong shot in the circumstances.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby kriss

Definately red first based on the paths red, pink & white took.

BUT... you have to ask why we have the rule regarding a simultaneous strike when its not used in a situation like this. The ball was travelling at 90mph and in spite of their vast experience neither player could agree.

I think the WBPSA may suggest refs refer to the simultaneous rule when replays could be deemed inconclusive...

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby PLtheRef

kriss wrote:Definately red first based on the paths red, pink & white took.

BUT... you have to ask why we have the rule regarding a simultaneous strike when its not used in a situation like this. The ball was travelling at 90mph and in spite of their vast experience neither player could agree.

I think the WBPSA may suggest refs refer to the simultaneous rule when replays could be deemed inconclusive...


The Simultaneous hit only occurs if there is a single click when the two balls are struck. - Anymore than the single click then of course means that there cannot have been a simultaneous hit.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby Wildey

the chances of it actually being a actual simultaneous is a 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 but with the human eye it can look that way.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby PLtheRef

Wild wrote:the chances of it actually being a actual simultaneous is a 1/1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 but with the human eye it can look that way.


Indeed, its much easier to listen for the simultaneous than to look for it.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby kriss

PLtheRef wrote:
The Simultaneous hit only occurs if there is a single click when the two balls are struck. - Anymore than the single click then of course means that there cannot have been a simultaneous hit.


Without trying to sound overly pedantic- how do you know you are hearing a 'single click' (when both balls are hit simultaneously) or simply two clicks that occur a fraction of a second apart....

I could set up two plants. One where the reds were touching and another with them 5mm apart. If I play each plant at pace no human would have a hope in hell of hearing the difference...

Selby played that shot so hard no human would be able to detect a difference in sound had he hit the balls simultaneously or individually.

Re: Red or pink first? You decide

Postby PLtheRef

Well a referee would be in the position to judge that there was an initial gap between the 5mm red - and thus would notice that they were not touching. - A referee would be judging this because of the potential for a simultaneous hit situation.