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Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby PLtheRef

SnookerFan wrote:I remember the 2003 one being fairly decent, but that wasn't there.


Yes, that was the one when Williams led 10-2 at the midsession interval on Sunday night and 11-5 overnight. I didn't see any of the third session but got in from a football tournament to hear Clive mention it should be quite a night as Ken had managed to somehow get level at 12-12

At a guess we shouldn't have been surprised. Ken had won his first two matches in deciding frame finishes and had come from 15-9 behind in the Semi-Final against Hunter, but Williams had been brilliant throughout the second half of the season and during the World Championship had won all his four matches with either a session to spare or before the midsession interval up to the Final.

Williams' 19 frames conceded en route to the Final is the second fewest in Crucible history and eclipses both Davis in 1989 and Hendry in 1993

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby vodkadiet1

The top 2 were 2 of the worst finals.

The 1980 final never gets a mention but that was a great final but 2 very contrasting players.

No votes for the '89 final either?

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby Alex0paul

Pink Ball wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:I’d say 2008 was the worst final I’ve seen

1989 was the worst, and 1983 was terrible as well. But 2008 was pretty special in its awfulness also.


Unfortunately I wasn’t around to see 83 and was only 6 months old for the 89 one.

I really didn’t feel the love for last years final either

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby PLtheRef

Juddernaut88 wrote:1992 world final should be here. I disagree with the top 2. I don't think they should be in the top 10.


The thing with 1992 is that it is in essence a World Final of two halves. Great play from Jimmy to go 12-6 and 14-8 followed by a great display from Hendry to take the last ten frames to win.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby Pink Ball

Alex0paul wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:I’d say 2008 was the worst final I’ve seen

1989 was the worst, and 1983 was terrible as well. But 2008 was pretty special in its awfulness also.


Unfortunately I wasn’t around to see 83 and was only 6 months old for the 89 one.

I really didn’t feel the love for last years final either

I enjoyed last year’s final, but only as a great performance, not as a match.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby vodkadiet1

Pink Ball wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:I’d say 2008 was the worst final I’ve seen

1989 was the worst, and 1983 was terrible as well. But 2008 was pretty special in its awfulness also.


I didn't bother to watch that final after the first session.

The 78 final was fantastic if only to learn from the break building skills of Perrie Mans.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby SnookerFan

PLtheRef wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I remember the 2003 one being fairly decent, but that wasn't there.


Yes, that was the one when Williams led 10-2 at the midsession interval on Sunday night and 11-5 overnight. I didn't see any of the third session but got in from a football tournament to hear Clive mention it should be quite a night as Ken had managed to somehow get level at 12-12

At a guess we shouldn't have been surprised. Ken had won his first two matches in deciding frame finishes and had come from 15-9 behind in the Semi-Final against Hunter, but Williams had been brilliant throughout the second half of the season and during the World Championship had won all his four matches with either a session to spare or before the midsession interval up to the Final.

Williams' 19 frames conceded en route to the Final is the second fewest in Crucible history and eclipses both Davis in 1989 and Hendry in 1993


Doherty really made the tournament entertaining that year.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby SnookerFan

Wasn't it Ronnie vs Hawkins where the BBC decided that Ronnie winning with a session to spare was inevitable?

I know Ronnie was the favourite, and he always comfortably in front in the match. But from the start, the BBC continually mentioned the likelihood of Ronnie winning on Monday afternoon. Not even in any subtle way. They literally kept bringing up the term 'session to spare' before anything had happened to really indicate that was a possibility. It'd the be the first session, and they were discussing the other one-sided finals, and how historic Ronnie winning it in three would be.

By the time the final session came round, they'd changed the narrative to make it sound like Hawkins had got a lot closer than anybody expected. Even saying if Hawkins was playing anybody else, he'd have won.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby mick745

Pink Ball wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:I’d say 2008 was the worst final I’ve seen

1989 was the worst, and 1983 was terrible as well. But 2008 was pretty special in its awfulness also.


2004 was bad

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby mick745

SnookerFan wrote:
PLtheRef wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I remember the 2003 one being fairly decent, but that wasn't there.


Yes, that was the one when Williams led 10-2 at the midsession interval on Sunday night and 11-5 overnight. I didn't see any of the third session but got in from a football tournament to hear Clive mention it should be quite a night as Ken had managed to somehow get level at 12-12

At a guess we shouldn't have been surprised. Ken had won his first two matches in deciding frame finishes and had come from 15-9 behind in the Semi-Final against Hunter, but Williams had been brilliant throughout the second half of the season and during the World Championship had won all his four matches with either a session to spare or before the midsession interval up to the Final.

Williams' 19 frames conceded en route to the Final is the second fewest in Crucible history and eclipses both Davis in 1989 and Hendry in 1993


Doherty really made the tournament entertaining that year.


Doherty beat Shaun Murphy 10-9 in round 1, and Graeme Dott 13-12 in round 2. In fact his only match en route to the final which didnt go to a deciding frame was the QF which he won 13-8 v John Higgins, and even then Higgins had fought back from 0-10 to 7-10.

You cant imagine a more difficult or fraught passage through the draw, so it is suprising he had any stamina left let alone enough to fight back the way he did and coming so close to winning it.

What an effort it was.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby PLtheRef

mick745 wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:
PLtheRef wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I remember the 2003 one being fairly decent, but that wasn't there.


Yes, that was the one when Williams led 10-2 at the midsession interval on Sunday night and 11-5 overnight. I didn't see any of the third session but got in from a football tournament to hear Clive mention it should be quite a night as Ken had managed to somehow get level at 12-12

At a guess we shouldn't have been surprised. Ken had won his first two matches in deciding frame finishes and had come from 15-9 behind in the Semi-Final against Hunter, but Williams had been brilliant throughout the second half of the season and during the World Championship had won all his four matches with either a session to spare or before the midsession interval up to the Final.

Williams' 19 frames conceded en route to the Final is the second fewest in Crucible history and eclipses both Davis in 1989 and Hendry in 1993


Doherty really made the tournament entertaining that year.


Doherty beat Shaun Murphy 10-9 in round 1, and Graeme Dott 13-12 in round 2. In fact his only match en route to the final which didnt go to a deciding frame was the QF which he won 13-8 v John Higgins, and even then Higgins had fought back from 0-10 to 7-10.

You cant imagine a more difficult or fraught passage through the draw, so it is suprising he had any stamina left let alone enough to fight back the way he did and coming so close to winning it.

What an effort it was.


Absolutely, and when I think of 2003, its usually Ken's brilliant run that comes to mind first before Williams smooth run to the final.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby PLtheRef

SnookerFan wrote:Wasn't it Ronnie vs Hawkins where the BBC decided that Ronnie winning with a session to spare was inevitable?

I know Ronnie was the favourite, and he always comfortably in front in the match. But from the start, the BBC continually mentioned the likelihood of Ronnie winning on Monday afternoon. Not even in any subtle way. They literally kept bringing up the term 'session to spare' before anything had happened to really indicate that was a possibility. It'd the be the first session, and they were discussing the other one-sided finals, and how historic Ronnie winning it in three would be.

By the time the final session came round, they'd changed the narrative to make it sound like Hawkins had got a lot closer than anybody expected. Even saying if Hawkins was playing anybody else, he'd have won.


I wonder what the odds were on a Ronnie win ahead of the 2013 Final? At a guess I would say the shortest of the five finals he'd been involved in up to that point. - Compared to Carter in 2008, Hawkins didn't really have a World Championship pedigree? Only having reached the second round twice, compared to Carter reaching a quarter-final (and a semi-final in between his two final appearances). Another comparison; Stephen Hendry was 12/1 on to beat Nigel Bond in the 1995 final.

The predictions on here before the Final were 19-2 in Ronnie's favour, with the majority of the predictions being for 18-8 (including me), 18-9 and 18-10.

As it turned out, Hawkins played very well (probably better than the 15-10 deficit he faced going into the Monday evening

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby SnookerFan

PLtheRef wrote:I wonder what the odds were on a Ronnie win ahead of the 2013 Final? At a guess I would say the shortest of the five finals he'd been involved in up to that point. - Compared to Carter in 2008, Hawkins didn't really have a World Championship pedigree? Only having reached the second round twice, compared to Carter reaching a quarter-final (and a semi-final in between his two final appearances). Another comparison; Stephen Hendry was 12/1 on to beat Nigel Bond in the 1995 final.

The predictions on here before the Final were 19-2 in Ronnie's favour, with the majority of the predictions being for 18-8 (including me), 18-9 and 18-10.

As it turned out, Hawkins played very well (probably better than the 15-10 deficit he faced going into the Monday evening


Don't get me wrong, I never thought Hawkins was going to win. And in terms of the scoreline if nothing else, he was never in much danger of winning. It was always obvious who the favourite was.

But I just thought it was odd the BBC's sudden insistence that this was going to be a session to spare almost from the moment the first ball was struck. They constantly mentioned during the first day, without any real evidence that it was going to happen. It seemed and odd way to promote the match. Harping on that it was going to be one-sided the whole time.

I don't remember them making such a big deal out of it in the two finals he played against Ali Carter, and if anything Ronnie was an even bigger favourite against him. (Though I was at one of the two Ronnie vs Carter finals live, so wasn't listening to the BBC analysis.)

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby Iranu

SnookerFan wrote:
PLtheRef wrote:I wonder what the odds were on a Ronnie win ahead of the 2013 Final? At a guess I would say the shortest of the five finals he'd been involved in up to that point. - Compared to Carter in 2008, Hawkins didn't really have a World Championship pedigree? Only having reached the second round twice, compared to Carter reaching a quarter-final (and a semi-final in between his two final appearances). Another comparison; Stephen Hendry was 12/1 on to beat Nigel Bond in the 1995 final.

The predictions on here before the Final were 19-2 in Ronnie's favour, with the majority of the predictions being for 18-8 (including me), 18-9 and 18-10.

As it turned out, Hawkins played very well (probably better than the 15-10 deficit he faced going into the Monday evening


Don't get me wrong, I never thought Hawkins was going to win. And in terms of the scoreline if nothing else, he was never in much danger of winning. It was always obvious who the favourite was.

But I just thought it was odd the BBC's sudden insistence that this was going to be a session to spare almost from the moment the first ball was struck. They constantly mentioned during the first day, without any real evidence that it was going to happen. It seemed and odd way to promote the match. Harping on that it was going to be one-sided the whole time.

I don't remember them making such a big deal out of it in the two finals he played against Ali Carter, and if anything Ronnie was an even bigger favourite against him. (Though I was at one of the two Ronnie vs Carter finals live, so wasn't listening to the BBC analysis.)

I think they were promoting the story more than the match.

“Ronnie O’Sullivan wins his 5th world title after a year out, with a session to spare!”

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby SnookerFan

Iranu wrote:I think they were promoting the story more than the match.

“Ronnie O’Sullivan wins his 5th world title after a year out, with a session to spare!”


Maybe so. But the story was fictional. There was never any chance of it happening.

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby PLtheRef

Absolutely, it was that remote - 5-3 after the first session and even more so when it went 10-7 overnight. Wasn't it 13-8 or 12-9 at the interval on Monday afternoon as well. The way Hawkins was playing there was no way he was going to get beat a session early. In 2012 Carter played well enough and was 10-7 overnight and there was no mention of a session to spare win. It was only when Ronnie won the first four frames of the afternoon to lead 14-7 that the prospect of a win on the Monday afternoon was mooted.

If a match is going to be won with a session to spare, you want a 12-5 overnight lead. All three Crucible Finals which were won on the Monday afternoon were either 12-4, 12-5 or in the case of Davis in 1989 13-3

Re: Eurosport’s Greatest World Finals

Postby The Ace

I think I must be one of the few who agrees with that list. Perhaps I am being a bit biased because 2019 and 2013 were my two favourite finals, especially in terms of standard of play. It probably is also down to the fact that I've only been watching snooker for about a decade, but these are the finals that I would put into my top 5.

1) 2019
2) 2013
3) 2011
4) 2018
5) 2015