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Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby SnookerFan

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:If u say u are a Tyson fan, then you know about all the stupid decisions he made in his life, the turmoils in his personal life and the way his career went downhill. With that in mind, it is only logical he never fulfilled his potential.

Yes of course I know and I agree. But Ali was better than Mike. Ali was even more talented and he was mentally much stronger. Mike was fantastic in his prime, but Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time. And we didn't even see Ali fight in his real prime because of the conviction. Ali was just too good. Mike would say the same. Ali fought some of the best heavyweights ever, and always found a way to win. Mike has never beaten a fighter of the same level as a Frazier or a Foreman..


Or Buster Douglas.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Holden Chinaski

SnookerFan wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:If u say u are a Tyson fan, then you know about all the stupid decisions he made in his life, the turmoils in his personal life and the way his career went downhill. With that in mind, it is only logical he never fulfilled his potential.

Yes of course I know and I agree. But Ali was better than Mike. Ali was even more talented and he was mentally much stronger. Mike was fantastic in his prime, but Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time. And we didn't even see Ali fight in his real prime because of the conviction. Ali was just too good. Mike would say the same. Ali fought some of the best heavyweights ever, and always found a way to win. Mike has never beaten a fighter of the same level as a Frazier or a Foreman..


Or Buster Douglas.

Indeed.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Johnny Bravo

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:If u say u are a Tyson fan, then you know about all the stupid decisions he made in his life, the turmoils in his personal life and the way his career went downhill. With that in mind, it is only logical he never fulfilled his potential.

Yes of course I know and I agree. But Ali was better than Mike. Ali was even more talented and he was mentally much stronger. Mike was fantastic in his prime, but Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time. And we didn't even see Ali fight in his real prime because of the conviction. Ali was just too good. Mike would say the same. Ali fought some of the best heavyweights ever, and always found a way to win. Mike has never beaten a fighter of the same level as a Frazier or a Foreman..


Mike's prime ended when he fired Kevin Rooney.
Despite that, he still managed to beat Ruddock twice before he went to jail.
Ruddock may not have the achievements of Frazier, but he'd beat Frazier prime vs prime.

And Ali simply tricked Foreman, who gassed and punched himself out.

Ali is indeed the greatest HW due to his achievements (especially those outside the ring), but prime vs prime, he'd get beat by the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, the Klitschko brothers and Bowe. Even the likes of Morrison and Ruddock stand a good chance of beating him.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:Ali is indeed the greatest HW due to his achievements (especially those outside the ring), but prime vs prime, he'd get beat by the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, the Klitschko brothers and Bowe. Even the likes of Morrison and Ruddock stand a good chance of beating him.

Jesus Christ! Please never talk about boxing again. FFS. <doh>


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Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Johnny Bravo

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:Ali is indeed the greatest HW due to his achievements (especially those outside the ring), but prime vs prime, he'd get beat by the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, the Klitschko brothers and Bowe. Even the likes of Morrison and Ruddock stand a good chance of beating him.

Jesus Christ! Please never talk about boxing again. FFS. <doh>


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Why not ?
I can back it with solid arguments. But I'll PM you instead of filling this thread with our debate. :-) <cool> :spot on:

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Johnny Bravo wrote:Ali is indeed the greatest HW due to his achievements (especially those outside the ring), but prime vs prime, he'd get beat by the likes of Tyson, Lewis, Holyfield, the Klitschko brothers and Bowe. Even the likes of Morrison and Ruddock stand a good chance of beating him.

Jesus Christ! Please never talk about boxing again. FFS. <doh>


Image


Why not ?
I can back it with solid arguments. But I'll PM you instead of filling this thread with our debate. :-) <cool> :spot on:

Please don't. Let's just leave it.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Johnny Bravo

Holden Chinaski wrote:"I like to think I'm a bad feather plucker, but that's where Ali overshines me. That's where he's better than me. Cause I can't understand a man that's willing to die for this." - Tyson


Tyson was an Ali fanboy since he was a kid. It's only logical he's not gonna be objective on this. And he surely won't put himself above his hero.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:"I like to think I'm a bad feather plucker, but that's where Ali overshines me. That's where he's better than me. Cause I can't understand a man that's willing to die for this." - Tyson


Tyson was an Ali fanboy since he was a kid. It's only logical he's not gonna be objective on this. And he surely won't put himself above his hero.

Johnny, everybody who understands boxing knows Ali was the best heavyweight. He was special, if you can't see that you need to learn more about boxing.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:Ali is indeed the greatest HW due to his achievements (especially those outside the ring).

Ali's greatest achievements were inside the ring. Tyson's greatest achievement is what he has done with his life these last years outside of the ring. Inside the ring, he was never able to fulfil his potential. Ali, on the other hand, fulfilled his potential and then some.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Johnny Bravo

Holden Chinaski wrote:Johnny, everybody who understands boxing knows Ali was the best heavyweight. He was special, if you can't see that you need to learn more about boxing.
...................................................................................................
Ali's greatest achievements were inside the ring. Tyson's greatest achievement is what he has done with his life these last years outside of the ring. Inside the ring, he was never able to fulfil his potential. Ali, on the other hand, fulfilled his potential and then some.


I agree that Tyson never fulfilled his potential. And I agree that Ali fulfilled his.
But prime vs prime, Ali is not the best HW. Not even close.
He is very overrated.
We'll talk some more in the boxing thread.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Holden Chinaski

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Johnny, everybody who understands boxing knows Ali was the best heavyweight. He was special, if you can't see that you need to learn more about boxing.
...................................................................................................
Ali's greatest achievements were inside the ring. Tyson's greatest achievement is what he has done with his life these last years outside of the ring. Inside the ring, he was never able to fulfil his potential. Ali, on the other hand, fulfilled his potential and then some.


I agree that Tyson never fulfilled his potential. And I agree that Ali fulfilled his.
But prime vs prime, Ali is not the best HW. Not even close.
He is very overrated.
We'll talk some more in the boxing thread.

So you know more about boxing than all the pro boxers, trainers, historians, and pundits? Because everyone who is of some importance in the boxing world pretty much agrees Ali was the best heavyweight and Sugar Ray Robinson was the GOAT.

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Acé

Ali is overrated it's because he was the first relevant boxer to appear on the screen and a bit of a character so everyone was going gaga over him but he had to deal with the demands of the modern times he WOULD GET SMASHED OUT OFF THE RING

Sport always evolves, never devolves

Re: Joe Perry: "Judd is better than Hendry and O'Sullivan!!!

Postby Johnny Bravo

Johnny Bravo wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Johnny, everybody who understands boxing knows Ali was the best heavyweight. He was special, if you can't see that you need to learn more about boxing.
...................................................................................................
Ali's greatest achievements were inside the ring. Tyson's greatest achievement is what he has done with his life these last years outside of the ring. Inside the ring, he was never able to fulfil his potential. Ali, on the other hand, fulfilled his potential and then some.


I agree that Tyson never fulfilled his potential. And I agree that Ali fulfilled his.
But prime vs prime, Ali is not the best HW. Not even close.
He is very overrated. P4p, the likes of SRR, W. Pepp, Armstrong, Grebb, Langford, Duran, Louis, SRL, Charles, Mayweather, Pacquiao, Jofre, Moore - all had better careers than Ali
We'll talk some more in the boxing thread.