Ronnie O'Sullivan: Snooker's Roger Federer

To say Ronnie's not a game changer because nobody plays like him is bull as well. Who plays like Alex Higgins? I haven't seen anyone play like him. Who plays like Hendry? Ronnie took stuff from Davis and Hendry and perfected it, changed it, combined it and kept adapting his game to the times. Players like Judd, Selby, DIng, they based their game on Ronnie's game. Not only Ronnie's game, but also Higgins and MJW. The class of '92 absolutely changed the game and took it to a higher level. The highest there has been in my opinion.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Even Ronnie's cue action. I've heard many players and commentators say Ronnie's cue action has been studied by most players now. I know if you don't like Ronnie's personality you would like to discredit him, but to say he hasn't changed the game is bull.

Absolutely.

I think people are only seeing the attacking and defensive side of it. Those 2 parts it was definately Hendry and Davis that changed it the most, but Ronnie changed the way people go into the pack, playing with the opposite hand, and especially his immaculate cue ball control, with the most clever of cannons that many players copied, Ding being one of them.

I think Holden is right, the Class of 92 did change the way and approach to the game, and opened the door for other players.

I think Trump is also making shots nobody would ever think of, maybe not even Jimmy White in his heyday, but he still has a long way to go before we can say Trump has changed the game. At the moment, he's heading in the right direction.

Holden Chinaski wrote:To say Ronnie's not a game changer because nobody plays like him is bull as well. Who plays like Alex Higgins? I haven't seen anyone play like him. Who plays like Hendry? Ronnie took stuff from Davis and Hendry and perfected it, changed it, combined it and kept adapting his game to the times. Players like Judd, Selby, DIng, they based their game on Ronnie's game. Not only Ronnie's game, but also Higgins and MJW. The class of '92 absolutely changed the game and took it to a higher level. The highest there has been in my opinion.

Dozens of people have changed the game from that point of view.

Alan McManus changed the game because John Higgins practised with him as a youngster.

Dennis Taylor changed the game because his World Championship victory was the most blockbuster moment in snooker history.

Frank Callan changed the game because he coached many top players.

David Attenborough changed the game because he introduced it to TV when head of BBC 2.

And so on and so on.

But that wasn’t really the point being made.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:To say Ronnie's not a game changer because nobody plays like him is bull as well. Who plays like Alex Higgins? I haven't seen anyone play like him. Who plays like Hendry? Ronnie took stuff from Davis and Hendry and perfected it, changed it, combined it and kept adapting his game to the times. Players like Judd, Selby, DIng, they based their game on Ronnie's game. Not only Ronnie's game, but also Higgins and MJW. The class of '92 absolutely changed the game and took it to a higher level. The highest there has been in my opinion.

Dozens of people have changed the game from that point of view.

Alan McManus changed the game because John Higgins practised with him as a youngster.

Dennis Taylor changed the game because his World Championship victory was the most blockbuster moment in snooker history.

Frank Callan changed the game because he coached many top players.

David Attenborough changed the game because he introduced it to TV when head of BBC 2.

And so on and so on.

But that wasn’t really the point being made.

Ronnie did change the way people play snooker. That is obvious to me. Did McManus bring in a new way of playing the game? No. Did Ronnie? I say yes. Ronnie took stuff from Davis and Hendry but he did something new with it and people copied that. He is as much of a game changer as Alex Higgins was.

Ronnie was a game changer also for the fact that he made it so that you have to be a complete player who can play in different ways. Ronnie could be attacking like Hendry. He could break build by opening the pack, but also by picking off the loose ones. But besides the attacking Hendry stuff, and the exhibition style of Alex and Jimmy, he could also play tactical snooker like Davis and Reardon. You see more complete players now, because of Ronnie. Ray Reardon has said many times he had never seen anyone play like Ronnie, and that people will have to improve to compete with him.

Steve Davis was a game changer, but when you watch footage of Ray Reardon in his prime you notice Davis basically played the same way as Reardon. He improved it a bit.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Ronnie was a game changer also for the fact that he made it so that you have to be a complete player who can play in different ways. Ronnie could be attacking like Hendry. He could break build by opening the pack, but also by picking off the loose ones. But besides the attacking Hendry stuff, and the exhibition style of Alex and Jimmy, he could also play tactical snooker like Davis and Reardon. You see more complete players now, because of Ronnie. Ray Reardon has said many times he had never seen anyone play like Ronnie, and that people will have to improve to compete with him.

Yeah, absolutely. I find it strange people don't see it this way, but each to their own.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Ronnie was a game changer also for the fact that he made it so that you have to be a complete player who can play in different ways. Ronnie could be attacking like Hendry. He could break build by opening the pack, but also by picking off the loose ones. But besides the attacking Hendry stuff, and the exhibition style of Alex and Jimmy, he could also play tactical snooker like Davis and Reardon. You see more complete players now, because of Ronnie. Ray Reardon has said many times he had never seen anyone play like Ronnie, and that people will have to improve to compete with him.

This was already happening throughout the 90s as it went on. Again, Higgins is a perfect example. Tactically brilliant, but also very aggressive.

Reardon saying nobody’s played like Ronnie doesn’t mean he changed the game. If anything, if he HAD changed the game, Reardon wouldn’t be saying nobody else played like him.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Steve Davis was a game changer, but when you watch footage of Ray Reardon in his prime you notice Davis basically played the same way as Reardon. He improved it a bit.

No, that’s not why people say he changed the game.

Steve Davis changed the game because he forced it to become professional in a way it never was before him.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Steve Davis was a game changer, but when you watch footage of Ray Reardon in his prime you notice Davis basically played the same way as Reardon. He improved it a bit.

No, that’s not why people say he changed the game.

Steve Davis changed the game because he forced it to become professional in a way it never was before him.

That I definately agree. Before him players were sort of part-timers. Only the World Champs and exhibitions mattered to them.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Reardon was probably a game-changer as well. And I would say Ronnie did more than play faster than Hendry. He also developed a better safety game and more ways to open up the pack.

Joe Davis Developed the rules of the game to the modern game we have today


Alex Higgins brought a eliment of excitement that was never seen before


Steve Davis brought the professionalism and dedication that today's players still aspire to play with


Stephen Hendry brought in a aggressive way to play to win frames from the first pot never seen before but plenty since


With respect nobody else has brought in something different never seen before.


What Ronnie did was copy the likes of thoes 4 and developed his game that took a bit of each and you could say created the ultimate player but he did not develop something different than what we had never seen before same with Ray Reardon.

Wildey wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Reardon was probably a game-changer as well. And I would say Ronnie did more than play faster than Hendry. He also developed a better safety game and more ways to open up the pack.

Joe Davis Developed the rules of the game to the modern game we have today


Alex Higgins brought a eliment of excitement that was never seen before


Steve Davis brought the professionalism and dedication that today's players still aspire to play with


Stephen Hendry brought in a aggressive way to play to win frames from the first pot never seen before but plenty since


With respect nobody else has brought in something different never seen before.


What Ronnie did was copy the likes of thoes 4 and developed his game that took a bit of each and you could say created the ultimate player but he did not develop something different than what we had never seen before same with Ray Reardon.

Was there anyone combining all those things you mentioned before Ronnie? Because Ronnie did that. He was Alex, Davis and Hendry all in one.

Wildey wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Reardon was probably a game-changer as well. And I would say Ronnie did more than play faster than Hendry. He also developed a better safety game and more ways to open up the pack.

Joe Davis Developed the rules of the game to the modern game we have today


Alex Higgins brought a eliment of excitement that was never seen before


Steve Davis brought the professionalism and dedication that today's players still aspire to play with


Stephen Hendry brought in a aggressive way to play to win frames from the first pot never seen before but plenty since


With respect nobody else has brought in something different never seen before.


What Ronnie did was copy the likes of thoes 4 and developed his game that took a bit of each and you could say created the ultimate player but he did not develop something different than what we had never seen before same with Ray Reardon.

Exactly.

ok ronnie was a fantastic clone.

If you combine different styles before anyone ever did that. Then you have created a new style. Then you have changed the game. In art it's the same. If you take different elements from those who came before you, and you mix them and perfect them... Then you are a game-changer. That's Ronnie.

Wildey wrote:ok ronnie was a fantastic clone.

A clone is an exact copy. Is Ronnie an exact copy of Alex, Hendry or Davis? No. He plays like nobody before him by taking elements from anyone who played before him and combining those elements and perfecting them. Game changer.

Elvis Presley took a bit of country style, a bit of soul, a bit of rhythm and blues, a bit of gospel, a bit of jazz and he combined all those things together and perfected them. No singer ever combined all those styles like Elvis did. He was a game changer just like Ronnie.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Elvis Presley took a bit of country style, a bit of soul, a bit of rhythm and blues, a bit of gospel, a bit of jazz and he combined all those things together and perfected them. No singer ever combined all those styles like Elvis did. He was a game changer just like Ronnie.

I don't know if Elvis change the game, but what a table !

Pool table in Graceland.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Playing the game to a higher level than anyone else and changing the way the game's played isn't the same thing.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Elvis Presley took a bit of country style, a bit of soul, a bit of rhythm and blues, a bit of gospel, a bit of jazz and he combined all those things together and perfected them. No singer ever combined all those styles like Elvis did. He was a game changer just like Ronnie.

If Ronnie had taken a bit of snooker, a bit of pool, and a bit of billiards and created something new, that comparison might be more apt.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Elvis Presley took a bit of country style, a bit of soul, a bit of rhythm and blues, a bit of gospel, a bit of jazz and he combined all those things together and perfected them. No singer ever combined all those styles like Elvis did. He was a game changer just like Ronnie.

If Ronnie had taken a bit of snooker, a bit of pool, and a bit of billiards and created something new, that comparison might be more apt.

Barry Hearn did that with bucking Shoot Out

Barry Hearn has changed snooker more than Ronnie.

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Playing the game to a higher level than anyone else and changing the way the game's played isn't the same thing.

But if Judd brings long potting and screwing back to a higher level he's changing the game right?

Holden Chinaski wrote:

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Playing the game to a higher level than anyone else and changing the way the game's played isn't the same thing.

But if Judd brings long potting and screwing back to a higher level he's changing the game right?

Of course not because the likes of Jimmy White and Stephen Lee already did the same thing in the past just not quite as good as Trump does. It's the same with O'Sullivan, he plays exactly the same way Hendry did just faster and at a higher level.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Playing the game to a higher level than anyone else and changing the way the game's played isn't the same thing.

But if Judd brings long potting and screwing back to a higher level he's changing the game right?

NO hes just able to play a shot some was struggling with John Spencer had fantastic screw shots long before Judd was born

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Playing the game to a higher level than anyone else and changing the way the game's played isn't the same thing.

But if Judd brings long potting and screwing back to a higher level he's changing the game right?

Of course not because the likes of Jimmy White and Stephen Lee already did the same thing in the past just not quite as good as Trump does. It's the same with O'Sullivan, he plays exactly the same way Hendry did just faster and at a higher level.

Ronnie does not play exactly the same as Hendry. He plays better safety and has added more to what Hendry did.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:

sas6789 wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Playing the game to a higher level than anyone else and changing the way the game's played isn't the same thing.

But if Judd brings long potting and screwing back to a higher level he's changing the game right?

Of course not because the likes of Jimmy White and Stephen Lee already did the same thing in the past just not quite as good as Trump does. It's the same with O'Sullivan, he plays exactly the same way Hendry did just faster and at a higher level.

Ronnie does not play exactly the same as Hendry. He plays better safety and has added more to what Hendry did.

Yeah but O'Sullivan's safety game improved when he worked with Reardon. If Hendy swollowed his pride and did something simlar a bit later in his career his safety would've improved as well.


But like i said playing the game at higher level is not the same thing as changing the way it's played others in this thread have said it as well.

Ronnie did not just play at a higher level. He changed the way it's played.

Holden Chinaski wrote:Ronnie did not just play at a higher level. He changed the way it's played.

Ronnie wasn’t the first to adopt attacking snooker while adding a good safety game.

Far from it.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:Ronnie did not just play at a higher level. He changed the way it's played.

Ronnie wasn’t the first to adopt attacking snooker while adding a good safety game.

Far from it.

That's just one aspect of what Ronnie added.

I could also say Hendry wasn't the first to play attacking snooker. Davis wasn't the first great tactician. Alex wasn't the first who played crazy shots... The only one who really did something first was probably Joe Davis.