Ronnie O'Sullivan: Snooker's Roger Federer

Andre147 wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:

Andre147 wrote:Federer is the ultimate pro, very rarely does something bad.

O'Sullivan on the other hand is a genius, and like all geniuses sometimes doesn't behave properly or is misunderstood.

Personally I would dispute that he is a genius but rather an exceptional exponent of the game with a lot of flair. IMO a genius redefines a sport or art or science and leaves it in a different state to before. Changes the way it is played for future generations. I don't think Ronnie has done that.

Genius would imply he can do something that others can't but I think there are other players who can play any shot that he can.

I don't think snooker has had a genius. Just my thought.

O'Sullivan definately changed the way Snooker is played, much like Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis before him.

Happy to be corrected but how did he change it?

Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Good post, agree with that, no one has really changed the game since Hendry, otherwise we would have seen decade long dominance from newer players...hasn't happened, even Selby is playing a mixed blend of previous greats, nothing new or game changing.

Ronnie’s changed the game in terms of the prevalence of playing with the opposite hand, but obviously that doesn’t compare to those Wild mentioned.

Ronnie basically took what Hendry did and improved it. But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Reardon was probably a game-changer as well. And I would say Ronnie did more than play faster than Hendry. He also developed a better safety game and more ways to open up the pack.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

Reardon was probably a game-changer as well. And I would say Ronnie did more than play faster than Hendry. He also developed a better safety game and more ways to open up the pack.

Precisely, and that is often underestimated by many.

Holden Chinaski wrote:But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this.

I have countless times.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this.

yeah - never heard that before.

Jimmy White was doing it in the 80s

Wildey wrote:Yea all Ronnie did with run with it. hes not changed the way the game is played

Joe Davis
Alex Higgins
Steve Davis
Stephen Hendry

they are the people who was Game Changers

All Ronnie does is play the game like Hendry just a tad faster.

This exactly.

Andre147 wrote:

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this.

I have countless times.

I’ve heard how he does it better than anyone and knows the right way to play it every time better than anyone, but not that he developed it.

Selby much as i respect him has not changed the way the game is played.

Ronnie much as I respect him (admittedly dislike him) has not changed the way the game is played.

Judd Trump actually could do. He has blended immaculate safety with outrageous long potting and many salvation pots when his position lets him down. He has introduced new shots to the game which nobody else can play. His application of screw and side has only been seen in White before and possibly - funny though it may sound - Stephen Lee.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this.

yeah - never heard that before.

Jimmy White was doing it in the 80s

I've heard Jimmy White say the way Ronnie does it is not the way he did it or Hendry did it. Also, players like Judd now play some shots with the opposite hand like Ronnie does. And players now combine Hendry's attacking game with Steve Davis tactics, like Ronnie did.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:But I've heard many commentators say that Ronnie really developed the shot where you screw in and out of the pack to open the pack up.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this.

yeah - never heard that before.

Jimmy White was doing it in the 80s

I've heard Jimmy White say the way Ronnie does it is not the way he did it or Hendry did it. Also, players like Judd now play some shots with the opposite hand like Ronnie does. And players now combine Hendry's attacking game with Steve Davis tactics, like Ronnie did.

Well I mentioned the opposite hand earlier but I don’t think it’s so much changing the game, not to anywhere near the extent of the other four.

And Ronnie was hardly unique in combining attacking play with tactics, in fact John Higgins for example did it far earlier than Ronnie decided to adopt the tactical side of the game.

Also, Ronnie took positional play to a whole other level. In his prime his positional play was out of this world. He did clever positional shots, little kisses here and there... Players like Ding obviously were influenced by this.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Selby much as i respect him has not changed the way the game is played.

Ronnie much as I respect him (admittedly dislike him) has not changed the way the game is played.

Judd Trump actually could do. He has blended immaculate safety with outrageous long potting and many salvation pots when his position lets him down. He has introduced new shots to the game which nobody else can play. His application of screw and side has only been seen in White before and possibly - funny though it may sound - Stephen Lee.

I agree with this except I’ve seen nothing to suggest Judd will change the game.

He does what he does because his cuepower is a singular talent that as you say few have come close to. I don’t see how that can change the game because not everybody could do it.

What the Davises, Higgins and Hendry did wasn’t reliant on them being able to do anything that others couldn’t (not that they weren’t talented) it was the application of a new outlook on the game. Joe Davis realised it could become a sport, Higgins opened the game up to a more dynamic dimension, Steve Davis emphasised professionalism in the game, and Hendry showed how to attack not just with flair but with controlled aggression and positional precision.

Judd being able to impart more spin than anyone else doesn’t help the game at large develop.

Ronnie is a great of the game but in terms of a legacy in how the game is played not so much. I agree about the left handed stuff but that did not change how the game was played.Davis and Hendry did fundamentally change how players approached frames and matches. Ronnie did not - no criticism there but it is a fact

Iranu wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Selby much as i respect him has not changed the way the game is played.

Ronnie much as I respect him (admittedly dislike him) has not changed the way the game is played.

Judd Trump actually could do. He has blended immaculate safety with outrageous long potting and many salvation pots when his position lets him down. He has introduced new shots to the game which nobody else can play. His application of screw and side has only been seen in White before and possibly - funny though it may sound - Stephen Lee.

I agree with this except I’ve seen nothing to suggest Judd will change the game.

He does what he does because his cuepower is a singular talent that as you say few have come close to. I don’t see how that can change the game because not everybody could do it.

What the Davises, Higgins and Hendry did wasn’t reliant on them being able to do anything that others couldn’t (not that they weren’t talented) it was the application of a new outlook on the game. Joe Davis realised it could become a sport, Higgins opened the game up to a more dynamic dimension, Steve Davis emphasised professionalism in the game, and Hendry showed how to attack not just with flair but with controlled aggression and positional precision.

Judd being able to impart more spin than anyone else doesn’t help the game at large develop.

Yeah that is a fair post Iranu. I think you are right

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Ronnie is a great of the game but in terms of a legacy in how the game is played not so much. I agree about the left handed stuff but that did not change how the game was played.Davis and Hendry did fundamentally change how players approached frames and matches. Ronnie did not - no criticism there but it is a fact

I understand your point., but I'm not sure you're right. I don't think so. I think he did change things. I think he had a big influence on players now. Even guys like Selby.

The people I remember saying Ronnie has changed the game, are the game changers we are talking about: Reardon, Davis and Hendry. Clive Everton has said it and other commentators as well. Reardon said he had never seen anyone play like Ronnie.

Holden Chinaski wrote:The people I remember saying Ronnie has changed the game, are the game changers we are talking about: Reardon, Davis and Hendry. Clive Everton has said it and other commentators as well. Reardon said he had never seen anyone play like Ronnie.

There is not a legacy of players who play differently because of him though.

Jimmy and Alex influenced Ronnie for sure but he never changed the approach to the game in the way they did. There were a mass of players who wanted to play like Hendry or Davis did. Sure you can see elements of Ronnie's game in Ding but that ain't a legacy. It would be nice if some players had picked up the baton but for whatever reason he is a one off. He has not influenced any style of play. You could argue that Thep is a similar player but most on tour have just not been influenced by him in the way they approach the game.

Such are the facts for good or bad

To say Judd could change the game whilst Ronnie hasn't is pure idiocy IMO.

Cloud Strife wrote:To say Judd could change the game whilst Ronnie hasn't is pure idiocy IMO.

Well you are the world expert on idiocy so I will take your word for it.

A lot of the players today had Ronnie as their idol when they started out. They watched his games and the way he played it just like Ronnie watched Davis and Hendry when he started. Players like Judd, Ding, Theppy, are obviously influenced by Ronnie. There's even an interview out there of a very young Mark Selby saying Ronnie is his hero and he wants to play like him.

Holden Chinaski wrote:A lot of the players today had Ronnie as their idol when they started out. They watched his games and the way he played it just like Ronnie watched Davis and Hendry when he started. Players like Judd, Ding, Theppy, are obviously influenced by Ronnie. There's even an interview out there of a very young Mark Selby saying Ronnie is his hero and he wants to play like him.

That’s not the same as changing the game.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:A lot of the players today had Ronnie as their idol when they started out. They watched his games and the way he played it just like Ronnie watched Davis and Hendry when he started. Players like Judd, Ding, Theppy, are obviously influenced by Ronnie. There's even an interview out there of a very young Mark Selby saying Ronnie is his hero and he wants to play like him.

That’s not the same as changing the game.

Why not?

If he influenced many players to take up the game isnt that changing it?

If not then I dont know what is.

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:A lot of the players today had Ronnie as their idol when they started out. They watched his games and the way he played it just like Ronnie watched Davis and Hendry when he started. Players like Judd, Ding, Theppy, are obviously influenced by Ronnie. There's even an interview out there of a very young Mark Selby saying Ronnie is his hero and he wants to play like him.

That’s not the same as changing the game.

I think Ronnie did change the game, along with Higgins an MJW. Maybe not as much as someone like Hendry, but I think the class of '92 did change the game. Snooker would not be the same without them in my opinion. There's nobody around now who really plays like Davis or Hendry. But most players now seem to play a similar game like the class of '92. I see guys like Robbo opening the pack just like Ronnie does all the time. I see Ding playing positional shots that come right out or Ronnie's style all the time...

Even Ronnie's cue action. I've heard many players and commentators say Ronnie's cue action has been studied by most players now. I know if you don't like Ronnie's personality you would like to discredit him, but to say he hasn't changed the game is bull.