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Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ash147

Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


Higgins made 8 breaks over 50, as well as 4 centuries. He played excellent when he got the chance. Judd was just so good that he shut him out though.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


But he produced 8 breaks over 50 including 4 centuries out of 9 frames. That's playing very well no matter what. To shut out that type Higgins is no easy task at all.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ash147 wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


Higgins made 8 breaks over 50, as well as 4 centuries. He played excellent when he got the chance. Judd was just so good that he shut him out though.

Would not have happened against peak Higgins, Hendry, or Ronnie.

Anyway, the discussion is has Judd raised the game to new levels? Is he better than Hendry, Ronnie and Higgins at their best? And the answer is no in my opinion.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby D4P

Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


And who has been on the verge of retiring for much of the season

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


But he produced 8 breaks over 50 including 4 centuries out of 9 frames. That's playing very well no matter what. To shut out that type Higgins is no easy task at all.

True, but it was not peak Higgins at all. Higgins is not who he used to be.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Holden Chinaski wrote:
Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


But he produced 8 breaks over 50 including 4 centuries out of 9 frames. That's playing very well no matter what. To shut out that type Higgins is no easy task at all.

True, but it was not peak Higgins at all. Higgins is not who he used to be.


You could say it was the stats don't lie though what made did you want him to do? it's just he never got the chance to continue because Judd was playing even better than that standard, Higgins didn't get a chance.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Holden Chinaski

Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:
Ace wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:This was not peak Higgins. This was old man Higgins who lost the previous two world finals and who has not won anything in over a year.


But he produced 8 breaks over 50 including 4 centuries out of 9 frames. That's playing very well no matter what. To shut out that type Higgins is no easy task at all.

True, but it was not peak Higgins at all. Higgins is not who he used to be.


You could say it was the stats don't lie though what made did you want him to do? it's just he never got the chance to continue because Judd was playing even better than that standard, Higgins didn't get a chance.

He did get chances but he did not take them like peak Higgins would have done. Higgins gave Judd a lot of chances, peak Higgins would not have done that.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Iranu

Ace wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Ace wrote:
Iranu wrote:Judd’s obviously the best player in the world right now, I don’t think that’s up for debate after his WC victory.

That doesn’t mean he’s taken the game to new heights though. Selby was the dominant player from 2014-2017, but he didn’t raise the standard of the game.

Pundits say stuff like this all the time. When MJW won last year many were saying that he was playing better than when he was dominant in the early 00s.

But let’s be honest, just the fact that we’re having this debate about a player under 30 is a great thing and hopefully a good sign for the game.


Selby is a grinder so he can't take the game to new heights and he doesn't create buzz. His peak is lesser than all 4 of them. Judd on the other hand plays snooker everyone likes and wows everyone, leaves a lasting impression because he's attacking and makes very big breaks.

But I don't think it's wrong to say he brought it to new levels. Again, look, Ronnie also did bring the game to new levels but they play differently even though they have the same attacking mindset

Selby is so much more than just a grinder, he’s one of the most prolific breakbuilders in the game. You’ve shown yourself up for your lack of snooker knowledge there. His peak is also pretty awesome. There are few players in the history of snooker whose peaks are on Selby’s level.

How has Judd brought snooker to a new level? You haven’t actually explained this. He performed extremely well in the world final. But other players have performed better in other matches.

One performance is not a game changer.


Selby doesn't produce the same level of peakiness as the 4 like Ronnie, Hendry, Higgins and Judd they are powerhouses while with Selby you always get chances it's just that his safety is too good and drags players to his level but he doesn't blow off opponents and play a high level of snooker. Judd doesn't drag anyone down as he matched them power for power then outpowers them. That's why no one talks about Selby raising standards...because he never otherwise the media would have said 2017 was the greatest standard ever and that was peak selby but did you hear it in the media? no

I have explained this throughout my posts in this thread if you read them!

The jist is 7 centuries and 15 breaks over 50, no one has played to that high of a standard in a wc final and he did it against John Higgins who is a 4x WC champion and the greatest match player of all time as well as being Judd's nemesis so Judd had a lot of pressure to deal with. Safety didn't work on Judd because he was potting all the balls from all over the place and producing frame winning breaks and didn't give Higgins the time of the table, as Higgins said Trump overpowered the table.

Selby’s peak is awesome. I’ve explained this elsewhere but because Selby is one of the best that’s ever been at winning when not playing well, we see a lot more of him playing poorly than we do other players. I think this has coloured some people’s opinions of him.

Selby has made 6 centuries in a best of 25, which you’ll notice is a significantly better ratio than 7 in a best of 35. When he’s on form he’s absolutely relentless.

Dude, you’re referring to ONE MATCH to say he’s raised the standard. You must realise how silly that is? It’s not even the best performance there’s been on a snooker table.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
You seem to be mistaking me of course Judd isn't greater than those 3 he doesn't have the trophies or records for it of course but I'm just talking about the level of play and you said you can't find a higher level of snooker so when you compare it to 2004 ronnie for example the only logical conclusion there could be is Judd 2019 > Ronnie 2004 otherwise you would say Ronnie played at a higher level in 2004 but you said you haven't seen a better performance than Judd's.

I don’t THINK I’ve seen a better performance in a World final. I’ve seen several performances better otherwise. Not many, but a few all the same.


So what are your scorelines for my matchups?

I think peak Sullivan would beat him soundly enough, maybe 18-14 or 18-13.

Closer against peak Hendry or Higgins, but still a loss.


So why did you say you haven't seen a higher level than Judd's performance? contradicting hmm

buck me. I said it was possibly the highest level of seen in a world final. I said I’ve occasionally seen better performances by other players in other matches.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Iranu wrote:
Ace wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Ace wrote:
Iranu wrote:Judd’s obviously the best player in the world right now, I don’t think that’s up for debate after his WC victory.

That doesn’t mean he’s taken the game to new heights though. Selby was the dominant player from 2014-2017, but he didn’t raise the standard of the game.

Pundits say stuff like this all the time. When MJW won last year many were saying that he was playing better than when he was dominant in the early 00s.

But let’s be honest, just the fact that we’re having this debate about a player under 30 is a great thing and hopefully a good sign for the game.


Selby is a grinder so he can't take the game to new heights and he doesn't create buzz. His peak is lesser than all 4 of them. Judd on the other hand plays snooker everyone likes and wows everyone, leaves a lasting impression because he's attacking and makes very big breaks.

But I don't think it's wrong to say he brought it to new levels. Again, look, Ronnie also did bring the game to new levels but they play differently even though they have the same attacking mindset

Selby is so much more than just a grinder, he’s one of the most prolific breakbuilders in the game. You’ve shown yourself up for your lack of snooker knowledge there. His peak is also pretty awesome. There are few players in the history of snooker whose peaks are on Selby’s level.

How has Judd brought snooker to a new level? You haven’t actually explained this. He performed extremely well in the world final. But other players have performed better in other matches.

One performance is not a game changer.


Selby doesn't produce the same level of peakiness as the 4 like Ronnie, Hendry, Higgins and Judd they are powerhouses while with Selby you always get chances it's just that his safety is too good and drags players to his level but he doesn't blow off opponents and play a high level of snooker. Judd doesn't drag anyone down as he matched them power for power then outpowers them. That's why no one talks about Selby raising standards...because he never otherwise the media would have said 2017 was the greatest standard ever and that was peak selby but did you hear it in the media? no

I have explained this throughout my posts in this thread if you read them!

The jist is 7 centuries and 15 breaks over 50, no one has played to that high of a standard in a wc final and he did it against John Higgins who is a 4x WC champion and the greatest match player of all time as well as being Judd's nemesis so Judd had a lot of pressure to deal with. Safety didn't work on Judd because he was potting all the balls from all over the place and producing frame winning breaks and didn't give Higgins the time of the table, as Higgins said Trump overpowered the table.

Selby’s peak is awesome. I’ve explained this elsewhere but because Selby is one of the best that’s ever been at winning when not playing well, we see a lot more of him playing poorly than we do other players. I think this has coloured some people’s opinions of him.

Selby has made 6 centuries in a best of 25, which you’ll notice is a significantly better ratio than 7 in a best of 35. When he’s on form he’s absolutely relentless.

Dude, you’re referring to ONE MATCH to say he’s raised the standard. You must realise how silly that is? It’s not even the best performance there’s been on a snooker table.


Hendry said Selby is good at winning ugly and doesn't say anything about raising standards that just tells how greats think of these players but his opinion isn't like that against Ronnie or Judd, why is that? No commentator mentions anything about Selby's peak it's usually Ronnie, Hendry, Higgins and the like but no one says 2017 raised standards to a new level even when it happened at the time. You're a rare fan who thinks his peak is awesome but most don't think so and they aren't wrong.

One match but that doesn't stop people in this thread from referencing one match like Ronnie 2004, hendry 1993 and Higgins 1998. But it's wrong for me to reference Judd's 2019? Again, all the pundits and players including Ronnie are on my side.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pink Ball wrote:buck me. I said it was possibly the highest level of seen in a world final. I said I’ve occasionally seen better performances by other players in other matches.


I don't get you pikball, sickpotter said Ronnie would beat Judd 18-12 but then you said Ronnie would also beat Judd 18-13 or 18-14 then you claim Judd has shown you the highest standard but then you say Ronnie has the highest standard and that Higgins and Hendry would still win against 2019 Judd...so Judd couldn't have shown the highest standard could he if he's going to lose against those 3.

which one is it? You are sitting on the fence and I'm destroying every piece of wood you're sitting on right now! I'm like Judd right now! Shutting you down mate!

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:buck me. I said it was possibly the highest level of seen in a world final. I said I’ve occasionally seen better performances by other players in other matches.


I don't get you pikball, sickpotter said Ronnie would beat Judd 18-12 but then you said Ronnie would also beat Judd 18-13 or 18-14 then you claim Judd has shown you the highest standard but then you say Ronnie has the highest standard and that Higgins and Hendry would still win against 2019 Judd...so Judd couldn't have shown the highest standard could he if he's going to lose against those 3.

which one is it? You are sitting on the fence and I'm destroying every piece of wood you're sitting on right now! I'm like Judd right now! Shutting you down mate!

You couldn’t destroy paper.

I don’t know if you’re being thick or on a wind up, but I’ll explain this one more bucking time.

I don’t believe Sullivan, Higgins, or Hendry have ever produced their very best in a World Championship final. Whereas I think last weekend’s performance in the final was Trump’s best ever snooker. I think what Trump produced on Sunday and Monday would, arguably, beat anything the other three have produced in their World Championship finals.

I have, however, seen the other three at their best — they just produced it outside of a World Championship final. It just so happens that those performances were better than what Trump produced on Sunday. In my opinion. Their peak level is greater than anything Trump has produced to date.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:buck me. I said it was possibly the highest level of seen in a world final. I said I’ve occasionally seen better performances by other players in other matches.


I don't get you pikball, sickpotter said Ronnie would beat Judd 18-12 but then you said Ronnie would also beat Judd 18-13 or 18-14 then you claim Judd has shown you the highest standard but then you say Ronnie has the highest standard and that Higgins and Hendry would still win against 2019 Judd...so Judd couldn't have shown the highest standard could he if he's going to lose against those 3.

which one is it? You are sitting on the fence and I'm destroying every piece of wood you're sitting on right now! I'm like Judd right now! Shutting you down mate!

You couldn’t destroy paper.

I don’t know if you’re being thick or on a wind up, but I’ll explain this one more bucking time.

I don’t believe Sullivan, Higgins, or Hendry have ever produced their very best in a World Championship final. Whereas I think last weekend’s performance in the final was Trump’s best ever snooker. I think what Trump produced on Sunday and Monday would, arguably, beat anything the other three have produced in their World Championship finals.

I have, however, seen the other three at their best. It just so happens that those performances were better than what Trump produced on Sunday. In my opinion. Their peak level is greater than anything Trump has produced to date.


You should've said that from the beginning if you were just comparing finals.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:buck me. I said it was possibly the highest level of seen in a world final. I said I’ve occasionally seen better performances by other players in other matches.


I don't get you pikball, sickpotter said Ronnie would beat Judd 18-12 but then you said Ronnie would also beat Judd 18-13 or 18-14 then you claim Judd has shown you the highest standard but then you say Ronnie has the highest standard and that Higgins and Hendry would still win against 2019 Judd...so Judd couldn't have shown the highest standard could he if he's going to lose against those 3.

which one is it? You are sitting on the fence and I'm destroying every piece of wood you're sitting on right now! I'm like Judd right now! Shutting you down mate!

You couldn’t destroy paper.

I don’t know if you’re being thick or on a wind up, but I’ll explain this one more bucking time.

I don’t believe Sullivan, Higgins, or Hendry have ever produced their very best in a World Championship final. Whereas I think last weekend’s performance in the final was Trump’s best ever snooker. I think what Trump produced on Sunday and Monday would, arguably, beat anything the other three have produced in their World Championship finals.

I have, however, seen the other three at their best. It just so happens that those performances were better than what Trump produced on Sunday. In my opinion. Their peak level is greater than anything Trump has produced to date.


You should've said that from the beginning if you were just comparing finals.

I did say it from the beginning. bucking hell.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Wildey

Guys im laughing at this because its almost word for word i was debating against Seifer 10 years ago but now Ronnie is the old man holding off the young pretender its coming round again guys.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:buck me. I said it was possibly the highest level of seen in a world final. I said I’ve occasionally seen better performances by other players in other matches.


I don't get you pikball, sickpotter said Ronnie would beat Judd 18-12 but then you said Ronnie would also beat Judd 18-13 or 18-14 then you claim Judd has shown you the highest standard but then you say Ronnie has the highest standard and that Higgins and Hendry would still win against 2019 Judd...so Judd couldn't have shown the highest standard could he if he's going to lose against those 3.

which one is it? You are sitting on the fence and I'm destroying every piece of wood you're sitting on right now! I'm like Judd right now! Shutting you down mate!

You couldn’t destroy paper.

I don’t know if you’re being thick or on a wind up, but I’ll explain this one more bucking time.

I don’t believe Sullivan, Higgins, or Hendry have ever produced their very best in a World Championship final. Whereas I think last weekend’s performance in the final was Trump’s best ever snooker. I think what Trump produced on Sunday and Monday would, arguably, beat anything the other three have produced in their World Championship finals.

I have, however, seen the other three at their best. It just so happens that those performances were better than what Trump produced on Sunday. In my opinion. Their peak level is greater than anything Trump has produced to date.


You should've said that from the beginning if you were just comparing finals.

I did say it from the beginning. bucking hell.


No my friend you were contradickting but now you made yourself clear. It's ok everyone makes mistakes. But hearing Judd's peakiness in best of 35 finals being greater than the other 3 is more than enough praise I can get I think from this thread.

Funny thing is Judd said he wants to reach an even higher stanard, crazy because he can actually do it I think he will one day make 18 breaks over 50 and 10 centuries in a world final now that the chains are off because this is just a starter of Judd's peakiness.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Pink Ball wrote:
Ash147 wrote:In the World Championship final he played a standard of snooker that I have never seen before. If he can replicate that, then no one stands a chance against him.

It was fantastic, brilliant, but I’ve seen better snooker. In a World Final? Maybe not. But I’ve seen better session performances and even match performances. This World Championship he put in two brilliant sessions before the final, but before that I hadn’t seen anything to suggest he’s on another planet to anything we’ve seen before. He’ll have to replicate it quite a few times if he wants to be put in a similar bracket to the likes of Higgins, Sullivan and Hendry.

Can you bucking read, Ace? First page of this thread.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pink Ball wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ash147 wrote:In the World Championship final he played a standard of snooker that I have never seen before. If he can replicate that, then no one stands a chance against him.

It was fantastic, brilliant, but I’ve seen better snooker. In a World Final? Maybe not. But I’ve seen better session performances and even match performances. This World Championship he put in two brilliant sessions before the final, but before that I hadn’t seen anything to suggest he’s on another planet to anything we’ve seen before. He’ll have to replicate it quite a few times if he wants to be put in a similar bracket to the likes of Higgins, Sullivan and Hendry.

Can you bucking read, Ace? First page of this thread.


Then why did you disagree with sickpotter who said Judd would lose all 3 hypothetical matches against them 3 if you always thought Judd produced the best snooker in the world final because let me tell you one thing they can only play in finals, that's why you were on and off with your opinions but for some reason I may have rubbed you and put you off then you changed your mind hence why you are swearing so much every post you have has a swearing word. It's ok.

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ash147 wrote:Holy rubbish, Ace is ripping Pink Ball’s bottom to pieces.

Confirmation that he is not ripping my bottom to pieces.

Image

Is that for Neil Robertson?

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pinkball there is nothing wrong with being wrong I don't hold grudges or anything I just like people to not sit on the fence because I am good at breaking them and when I did I finally managed to get a clear opinion from you. It's fine we are still friends I hope? I don't like to insult people and things I just love debating and stuff

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Pink Ball

Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ash147 wrote:In the World Championship final he played a standard of snooker that I have never seen before. If he can replicate that, then no one stands a chance against him.

It was fantastic, brilliant, but I’ve seen better snooker. In a World Final? Maybe not. But I’ve seen better session performances and even match performances. This World Championship he put in two brilliant sessions before the final, but before that I hadn’t seen anything to suggest he’s on another planet to anything we’ve seen before. He’ll have to replicate it quite a few times if he wants to be put in a similar bracket to the likes of Higgins, Sullivan and Hendry.

Can you bucking read, Ace? First page of this thread.


Then why did you disagree with sickpotter who said Judd would lose all 3 hypothetical matches against them 3 if you always thought Judd produced the best snooker in the world final because let me tell you one thing they can only play in finals, that's why you were on and off with your opinions but for some reason I may have rubbed you and put you off then you changed your mind hence why you are swearing so much every post you have has a swearing word. It's ok.

For what feels like the 93rd time: because he was talking about their performances in world finals, none of which were as good as what Trump produced on Sunday on Monday.

Do you have a brain tumor?

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Pink Ball wrote:
Ace wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Ash147 wrote:In the World Championship final he played a standard of snooker that I have never seen before. If he can replicate that, then no one stands a chance against him.

It was fantastic, brilliant, but I’ve seen better snooker. In a World Final? Maybe not. But I’ve seen better session performances and even match performances. This World Championship he put in two brilliant sessions before the final, but before that I hadn’t seen anything to suggest he’s on another planet to anything we’ve seen before. He’ll have to replicate it quite a few times if he wants to be put in a similar bracket to the likes of Higgins, Sullivan and Hendry.

Can you bucking read, Ace? First page of this thread.


Then why did you disagree with sickpotter who said Judd would lose all 3 hypothetical matches against them 3 if you always thought Judd produced the best snooker in the world final because let me tell you one thing they can only play in finals, that's why you were on and off with your opinions but for some reason I may have rubbed you and put you off then you changed your mind hence why you are swearing so much every post you have has a swearing word. It's ok.

For what feels like the 93rd time: because he was talking about their performances in world finals, none of which were as good as what Trump produced on Sunday on Monday.

Do you have a brain tumor?


Ok pink ball I think you are getting too heated and taking this too seriously you need a Kit kat!

Re: Judd Trump is snooker's greatest talent

Postby Ace

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Ace wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:Welcome to the forum Ace.

Who is your favourite player?


Judd Trump, the one and only Ace is the pack!!!

Yours?

Jimmy Robertson - pride of the South
Mark Davis
Judd Trump
Mark Selby


Nice why Jimmy robertson if I may ask? If he from the south like you are?