Pot Success Rate!

Hi All! With the pot success rates on telly does that inclued the long pot attempts also, so like a good one is 91% so that is 9 missed pots in a 100 with long pots added in as well. Thanks for any replies.

I think it is just the ratio between every succesful pot (long, short, double...) / every attempted pot (long, short, double...)

Ok Thanks Alot! i have a long way to go yet mine is about 25%, i miss to many easy ones maybe i try harder with them.

Haven't got a clue about my own average pot succes...
You have to iron out the silly misses, that's probably the first step to improvement.
Next comes getting the easy positional shots about right most of the time.
this would massively increase frame win %.
If you succeed in doing this, tell me how!

Yes i think sometimes with the easier shoots i dont look at the angles enough, and our lights are not that great either not like on the telly even and bright all over the table.

That is right the art of scoring well is a nice tight game around the black area, and of course some good long pots to get in that area first, also the back spin is harder on our cloths as well. Still all is a challenge! i play golf as well at least their are more constants in snooker so only slight changes more, some in golf can be drastic and really mess with ones mind at times.

sootywooty wrote:Yes i think sometimes with the easier shoots i dont look at the angles enough, and our lights are not that great either not like on the telly even and bright all over the table.

That is right the art of scoring well is a nice tight game around the black area, and of course some good long pots to get in that area first, also the back spin is harder on our cloths as well. Still all is a challenge! i play golf as well at least their are more constants in snooker so only slight changes more, some in golf can be drastic and really mess with ones mind at times.

That happens to everybody.
When u have an easy pot on, sometimes u take it for granted and don't focus hard enough and u end up missing it.

Positional play is everything really and you need a few sessions of solo practice to develop that.

....and a long pause on the final backswing.

IMO

I am playing this afternoon so will probably have changed my opinion by 5 o clock

Thanks for the replies Guys! yes those easy missed pots can really get to one, i have been playing 2 months now, and try and play around 3 times each week, i play with my mates one of the days, one use to play in the leagues so is a fair player and says we are coming on well for our time playing.

Yes i do play for about 2 hours the other days practising pots mainly, but if i think position i miss the pot most times, so first i think i will build my pot rate up my target is about 3% each month, of course by accident i do get position sometimes and get some 3 or 4 ball breaks.

Good Luck! to others with their snooker,

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Positional play is everything really and you need a few sessions of solo practice to develop that.

....and a long pause on the final backswing.

IMO

I am playing this afternoon so will probably have changed my opinion by 5 o clock

I don't make any swings/backswings at all, and I can make almost any ball.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Positional play is everything really and you need a few sessions of solo practice to develop that.

....and a long pause on the final backswing.

IMO

I am playing this afternoon so will probably have changed my opinion by 5 o clock

I don't make any swings/backswings at all, and I can make almost any ball.

That is not possible - you must hold the cue back some distance in order to be able to deliver it. It is possible to just hold it at the back of one swing and then deliver - Marco Fu is quite similar, but it does affect cue power.

My break building has come on again since I extended the pause. It has definitely improved my game. I had a 65 today.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Positional play is everything really and you need a few sessions of solo practice to develop that.

....and a long pause on the final backswing.

IMO

I am playing this afternoon so will probably have changed my opinion by 5 o clock

I don't make any swings/backswings at all, and I can make almost any ball.

That is not possible - you must hold the cue back some distance in order to be able to deliver it. It is possible to just hold it at the back of one swing and then deliver - Marco Fu is quite similar, but it does affect cue power.

My break building has come on again since I extended the pause. It has definitely improved my game. I had a 65 today.

I meant that I just swing the cue once before I deliver. I have no pause.
Here's my routine on any shot: I get down on the shot, I see the potting angle, then I deliver the cue.

Hey Sooty - have a look at the videos on this channel. They will help you improve

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCca4FZ ... 4bTTDdXOTg

Great thread.

I’ve just added a longer backswing to my game and some ridiculous pots are going on. Brilliant

Good that you have some flaws.

Making an odd century isn´t good at all. Because even some players who are making easy mistakes makes a much, much better clearances. Martin Gould or Tian Pengfei for example. Martin is as handy cueist as is Judd Trump, or even slightly more handy.

And either of those players are bottlers, actually they are mentally strong players. Gould and Pengfei. Who are making those better clearances than those running an odd centuries. Bu they are both looking quite dull.

David Gilbert and Gary Wilson are having a great pot success rates without making much anything significant. BUT that´s what having great pot success rate IS all about!

Neil Robertson doesn´t think much further and is consistently having a really daft efforts to split the pack without any thinking or hopes to get it right. I mean after the long reds.. But that ain´t any weaknes AT ALL because he knows he is always having those "unforced errors", so the playing comes easy to Neil! He probably doesn´t have a coach who would be trying to get rid of those unforced errors at the beginning of the frames. Which is good as he´s having no pressure now and the playing is easy. Neil knows that everyone are making some kind of a mistakes or unforced errors and those are his and he doesn´t bother about those at all. Which is exactly the correct approach. So a possibly weakness is actually a strong point of his.

Hopefully someone like Shaun Murphy would realise that thing too. 6-13 against Neil Robertson was always on the cards. I knew that. Just like got Selby-Zhao 10-7 also correct. Couldn´t be anything else than 10-7 and it was. Or that Selby vs Gary Wilson would be a Crucible classic where Selby can´t polish Gary off at all.... Well just some results. And yes, Ali´s no strong or good enough to Yuelong who is exactly just like Jimmy White used to bea years, years ago. Bingtao vs Yuelong, still Yuelong better prospect by a country mile. A one prediction of mine from the years ago. Has got some spot on, some slightly wrong. Or just badly wrong. But he did beat Mark Allen also quite easily also.

All this is just a bit of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNLyGhFdnHw

Sorry.

Dan-cat wrote:Great thread.

I’ve just added a longer backswing to my game and some ridiculous pots are going on. Brilliant

A few months ago I accentuated the pause at the end of my backswing and that is now bedded in.

When Ronnie went behind 6-2 in that last match with Trump, and came out firing in the evening, Neal Foulds said 'I've noticed Ronnie's lengthened his backswing a bit this evening.'

I took that gold nugget to the club and started knocking in long balls and tricky shots all over the shop.

Coaching doesn't have to be hours of grind to make you improve, it can be one sentence that changes everything. I remember doing clay pigeon shooting at a stag do last year, and there was a trainer helping you. After a couple of missed shots he said 'watch the clay as it rises, when it's at the highest point of its trajectory it hovers for a bit... shoot then.' I got every shot after that.

Thanks for your input Saviour. Wrong thread? Or just fancied spamming a bit.

There are so many cues (pun intended) to help improve your cueing, be aware though of not overthinking too much...

It's fine to absorb lots of tips and knowledge of how a good solid technique should be, but don't make the mistake of trying to change too many things at once with your natural way of cueing.

Try to focus on only tweaking one or two things at the same time, your head needs to be clear and should only focus on delivering the cue straight, not worrying on multiple things.

I have also made the mistake of trying to change too much at once: how do I hold the cue? is my backswing long enough? focus on the pause, focus on the follow through, hit the ball exactly in center, stay still untill after the shot is finished, keep track of which way you miss the pot so you can correct next time,...

Result: my game dropped and went trough a few weeks of heavy defeats against my mates. then I said buck it and focused solely on keeping my head still, and the follow through, not giving any thought at all on all the other aspect, i immediately improved a lot.

There's a lot to be said for that Rekoons. I think my technique had fatal flaws that were stopping me improving (no pause, very short backswing.) If I start missing by miles I strip it all back and just make sure I'm following through with the cue in a straight line.

maybe the single best piece of advice i.m.o. is to 'let the cue do the work', just hold and direct the cue through the white, spin, screw, power shots all come from the way you deliver the cue ('timing'), not just how hard you hit it.

It will be evident when you hit the ball well, you will be amazed at how little effort or power needs to be applied to create effect if you go trhought the ball well.
When that happens with me, more often through luck than skill alas, you can even hear it on striking the white.

rekoons wrote:maybe the single best piece of advice i.m.o. is to 'let the cue do the work', just hold and direct the cue through the white, spin, screw, power shots all come from the way you deliver the cue ('timing'), not just how hard you hit it.

It will be evident when you hit the ball well, you will be amazed at how little effort or power needs to be applied to create effect if you go trhought the ball well.
When that happens with me, more often through luck than skill alas, you can even hear it on striking the white.

Absolutely. Timing is everything.

Once you know how it feels when the timing is correct and a well executed shot feels like, make a mental note of it, really create a memory how it feels, so you have this 'standard' if you like. Now all that's left to do is trying 100% to reproduce this feeling/execution on every single shot in your life

One more thing that really helps me is trying to visualize and feel the shot before i go down, know beforehand how to hit the ball so you know what your timing for this particular shot should be. It's no good to be down already and still have to figure out how you're gonna play the shot. and once you're down commit 100%, for me personally that means remembering to finish the shot i.e. follow through.

once you're kinda able to hit the ball with good timing more often than not, I think it's time to focus on getting the 'eay' positional shots right, and that's probably even more difficult than all the above.

I agree with Rekoons.

Getting the feel of the shot before settling into cueing is important.

I also agree that overthinking every aspect of your stance etc will lead to more problems than solutions. I have suffered this may times.

I have tried what Johnny said above with no cue ups - bit like Fu and it does help with simple pots but I lose most of my cue power. I do not know why this is.


The pause on the last backswing has turned me from a 30 break to a 50/60 break player again in two weeks. Can't overstate its importance for me. Does not mean it will work for all of course.

rekoons wrote:Once you know how it feels when the timing is correct and a well executed shot feels like, make a mental note of it, really create a memory how it feels, so you have this 'standard' if you like. Now all that's left to do is trying 100% to reproduce this feeling/execution on every single shot in your life

One more thing that really helps me is trying to visualize and feel the shot before i go down, know beforehand how to hit the ball so you know what your timing for this particular shot should be. It's no good to be down already and still have to figure out how you're gonna play the shot. and once you're down commit 100%, for me personally that means remembering to finish the shot i.e. follow through.

once you're kinda able to hit the ball with good timing more often than not, I think it's time to focus on getting the 'eay' positional shots right, and that's probably even more difficult than all the above.

Hi all! I haven't been in for a while. My little company is the busiest its ever been lately; 180 degree turn from a few years ago when I nearly went out of business. Life is good but its bad for my snooker as I can play quite rarely at the moment, perhaps 3 or 4 hours a week. My preferred normal time is 12 to 16 hours a week. Consistency of table time is also a significant requirement in a quest to improve one's game play.
..............

About this thread, fantastic stuff! When I have checked in to the Island lately, it has mainly been about the WC of course, which I browse but cannot contribute at all. Delighted to find this topic on the docket. I quoted one piece from Rekoons above, but my friend, everything you have said is spot on and wonderful advice for an up and coming player. Very well written, very accurate to my experience as well.

As for Dan's input, I am happy you have seen success, most especially in adding the pause to your backswing. That, I think (adding the pause), was the single most difficult change I made to my game probably four years ago now, but without a doubt, also the most beneficial change. It didn't help me so much with the potting though as the benefit was mainly in pinpoint positional control. I have an analogy about this but I won't post it here as I already have too much to write and too little time. About lengthening your backswing, that does concern me a bit as in my experience, the longer the backswing, the more likely to veer off-line as you strike. I have no doubt that it has helped your game, but I am saying that, in general, a newer player should stick to a short backswing to pot as accurately as possible.....less chance for things to go wrong. To promote a shorter backswing, a young player should purposely keep the bridge hand nearer the cue ball and as potting accuracy improves over time, this bridge hand distance (and the consequential backswing length) can then increase to promote a more lively cue action. The longer backswing is more advanced and required for a higher level of play but that should only be added after the foundation is established and comfortable.

BadSnookerPlayer: finally, I am hearing you open up a bit more about your own game play. On the Island, my favourite thing used to be when SickPotter or especially Roland would make a personal post about their own games, things they had learned or found to be true or untrue, advice for others to help them on their own path. I miss those guys. Surely confident and intelligent (at least "snooker wise", I can't vouch for anything else of course), yet they were still humble while acknowledging they knew a few things they would be happy to share, loved the game, and were always on a quest to continue their own improvement. As it should be. To my eye, you are now that torch bearer. I have always figured you to be a better player than you generally let on, and I think you have the capacity and personality to help others in this way. By the way, are you still getting time in with your old man on the table? My own son will be home from University in less than a month now and I will move heaven and earth to get a good number of frames with him over the summer.

For Johnny, I don't think I have had pleasure of discourse with you in the past. I have noticed your posts in the tour threads but I don't recall seeing you before in any of the technique threads. It does sound like you have some talent and I do wish I could see your game live. I will say though that in your couple posts here, your technique would seem to be non-standard. I don't mean that in a bad way; we all must find our own path and use or discard what works or doesn't work for us. When I read your posts, I immediately thought of Tony Drago in his prime, completely non-standard but utterly fascinating to watch. Finding a path to improvement on the Green Baize is definitely a very personal endeavour and it is useful for us all to share what has worked or not for us. Then, if the advice seeker is serious in his quest, he is obliged to try it all (but in very small and controlled increments, as Rekoons suggests) and figure which if any will work for him.

BSP, I forgot to say....the Break from Life guy is my absolute favourite! Love his channel, good and very useful advice.

Back to Rekoons, I have read through all your posts in this thread several times now. Really, really good stuff. Keep it up!

Thanks for the nice words Ace, next to chatting about tourneys and players, I also very much enjoy chatting away about Snooker itself - technique and mental side and stuff.

As I probably wrote in an earlier post I have some mates/opponents with whom I play a weekly session of frames with, but they're not that very prepared to think and practice the game to improve, so this is kinda the place i go to.

I pulled the trigger to start building my own potting shed from scratch later this year you know, so I should have more to say about technique and improvement in the future I just can't stand the thought of not having realized a dream I've had for so long, only to regret it on my dying bed
I've even got the thumbs up from the missus!

rekoons wrote:Thanks for the nice words Ace, next to chatting about tourneys and players, I also very much enjoy chatting away about Snooker itself - technique and mental side and stuff.

As I probably wrote in an earlier post I have some mates/opponents with whom I play a weekly session of frames with, but they're not that very prepared to think and practice the game to improve, so this is kinda the place i go to.

I pulled the trigger to start building my own potting shed from scratch later this year you know, so I should have more to say about technique and improvement in the future I just can't stand the thought of not having realized a dream I've had for so long, only to regret it on my dying bed
I've even got the thumbs up from the missus!

A friend of mine has a shed with a snooker table. It's one those tables that's just a little bit smaller than the full-size ones.

Did he make any special provisions concerning air humidity and temperature and such?

That's the only small concern I have as the shed will be separate from the house. It will be adequately isolated and provided with a heating source offcourse, but still the heating will only be on when needed (not a constant minimum temperature).

I'm a little bit concerned about the long term effect of temperature/air humidity cycles on the cloth.

Thanks Alot!! Badsnookerplayer, Yes i watch that guys videos as well and are helpful alot for me he is a very good player.

I agree about to many thoughts at onces it is the same in golf, i just use as less as possible and let auto pilot be my guide mainly after my stance and line of the shot.

With snooker i have found just stepping in on the line after a look at the potting angle best, then i just let my limited experience so far be my guide to the working of the cue, and then stay down and follow through not much with stun shots of course.

rekoons wrote:Did he make any special provisions concerning air humidity and temperature and such?

That's the only small concern I have as the shed will be separate from the house. It will be adequately isolated and provided with a heating source offcourse, but still the heating will only be on when needed (not a constant minimum temperature).

I'm a little bit concerned about the long term effect of temperature/air humidity cycles on the cloth.

No I don't think so. His table is not in great condition, but I still enjoy playing on it. Proper insulation is important I think. The room also has heating.

Cheers Aces and Rekoons.

Update.

Stuck with the longer pause today and the evidence is becoming stronger. Until recently I was hitting 20/30 breaks and today I had a 48 and 53 in a best of 9 and was really pleased with how I played.

It could still go wrong so I will stick with it until I am convinced it is not a placebo effect.

Basically my action is now.

Visualise the contact and position I wish for
3/4/5 initial cue ups making sure I am striking the cue ball where and how I want.
Final backswing. Hold it longer than comfortable (but still probably 1/2 seconds). Whilst doing this focus on the object ball. And I mean focus really hard - you can fool yourself that you are looking at the right angle. Really look hard at it.
Last thought - any adjustments?? Then deliver. (minimum pace possible to achieve the desired cue ball position)

I am very pleased with my progress and am hopeful that my next ton will be this year.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Cheers Aces and Rekoons.

Update.

Stuck with the longer pause today and the evidence is becoming stronger. Until recently I was hitting 20/30 breaks and today I had a 48 and 53 in a best of 9 and was really pleased with how I played.

It could still go wrong so I will stick with it until I am convinced it is not a placebo effect.

Basically my action is now.

Visualise the contact and position I wish for
3/4/5 initial cue ups making sure I am striking the cue ball where and how I want.
Final backswing. Hold it longer than comfortable (but still probably 1/2 seconds). Whilst doing this focus on the object ball. And I mean focus really hard - you can fool yourself that you are looking at the right angle. Really look hard at it.
Last thought - any adjustments?? Then deliver. (minimum pace possible to achieve the desired cue ball position)

I am very pleased with my progress and am hopeful that my next ton will be this year.

Well Done!! BSP, yes i think little changes can help alot sometimes, i fined with soft shots i do not pause at all seems better for me somehow, and with faster action shots not long either more of making a very smooth transition, similar to the golf swing so i just try and keep a nice smooth tempo more.

My pot rate was up a little today around about 30% may be starting this thread has helped, problems shared and all that.