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Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby SnookerFan » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Holden Chinaski wrote:I've seen Selby make a similar foul and not notice it. I'm 100% sure he was honest. I don't think top players do stuff like that. Not only because they have integrity, but also because they know there are cameras on them!


Yeah, because it's Ronnie it seems to get talked about more. (By his own fans, not just detractors.)

Remind me when that Selby one was.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby SnookerFan » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Holden Chinaski wrote:Not only because they have integrity, but also because they know there are cameras on them!


Yes, it's not like Ronnie needs to do that to win, is it?

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Holden Chinaski » 08 Apr 2019 Read

rekoons wrote:Just my neutral 2 cents: I can't imagine he would not have felt that ball hitting the rest. I say that because I think I know how it should feel, and it's pretty obvious to feel, not to hear maybe with the crowd.
I was really gutted and dissapointed with the incident because I'm a bit of a Ronnie fan too. Especially the interview, also look at how strangely Jimmy was behaving...

I know how it feels too. But I'm sure we also make fouls while playing without noticing it. We only remember the fouls we did notice.

Just because the foul was so obvious, is the reason I believe he didn't feel it. He would be certain the cameras would see it, so why parakeet then?

Even the referee didn't see the foul, and I still don't understand that.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby rekoons » 08 Apr 2019 Read

But indeed on the other hand, he has a perfect reputation when it comes to fair play, and he full well knows he's being filmed from all angles... so maybe benefit of the doubt after all?

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Holden Chinaski » 08 Apr 2019 Read

SnookerFan wrote:
Holden Chinaski wrote:Not only because they have integrity, but also because they know there are cameras on them!


Yes, it's not like Ronnie needs to do that to win, is it?

Exactly.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Holden Chinaski » 08 Apr 2019 Read

rekoons wrote:But indeed on the other hand, he has a perfect reputation when it comes to fair play, and he full well knows he's being filmed from all angles... so maybe benefit of the doubt after all?

Of course. He knows full well the cameras are on him.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby vodkadiet » 08 Apr 2019 Read

I cannot remember if Hearn fined him for not owning up. I cannot imagine any fine would have had any impact on him anyway. A short ban would have sufficed.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby SnookerFan » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:
vodkadiet wrote:I cannot remember if Hearn fined him for not owning up. I cannot imagine any fine would have had any impact on him anyway. A short ban would have sufficed.


Lolz Vodka. how short, 5 minutes?


Hearn insisted that Ronnie lose heavily to Mark Davis.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Iranu » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:The ball didn't hit the rest, it hit the cue, that was solidly in the rest. Try it in the club and see for yourself. The rest is much heavier than the cue.

And everything is on camera. No way he did it on purpose.

I don’t think anyone’s suggesting he did it on purpose. I just think he realised he’d done it and made a split-second decision not to own up to it, rather than not realising.

I don’t think it’s a big deal really.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby SnookerFan » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Iranu wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:The ball didn't hit the rest, it hit the cue, that was solidly in the rest. Try it in the club and see for yourself. The rest is much heavier than the cue.

And everything is on camera. No way he did it on purpose.

I don’t think anyone’s suggesting he did it on purpose. I just think he realised he’d done it and made a split-second decision not to own up to it, rather than not realising.

I don’t think it’s a big deal really.


Well, yeah.

It's not like he went into the shot thinking; "I'm going to hit the red ball with my cue and pretend I didn't...."

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby vodkadiet » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-Cat

I get it that you're a fan but aside from what actually happened the things that make it obvious O'Sullivan knew were offering his place in the Champions Cup to his vanquished opponent, calling a foul on himself in the first couple of shots in his next match, and then playing atrociously against Dark Mavis. And remember when the incident happened he was losing his way in the match and looking like he would lose.

But there is no convincing his fans because of obvious reasons.

One last thought on this, can you imagine if the identical thing happened in the final frame of the World final and John Higgins was the culprit and he was playing O'Sullivan? I am sure the fanboys would be defending Higgins?!!

And just because someone has had an exemplary record of fair play beforehand doesn't mean in the spur of the moment they cannot make an error of judgement on a single occasion.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Holden Chinaski » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:The ball didn't hit the rest, it hit the cue, that was solidly in the rest. Try it in the club and see for yourself. The rest is much heavier than the cue.

And everything is on camera. No way he did it on purpose.

Good post. :hatoff:

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Apr 2019 Read

vodkadiet wrote:Dan-Cat

I get it that you're a fan but aside from what actually happened the things that make it obvious O'Sullivan knew were offering his place in the Champions Cup to his vanquished opponent, calling a foul on himself in the first couple of shots in his next match, and then playing atrociously against Dark Mavis. And remember when the incident happened he was losing his way in the match and looking like he would lose.

But there is no convincing his fans because of obvious reasons.

One last thought on this, can you imagine if the identical thing happened in the final frame of the World final and John Higgins was the culprit and he was playing O'Sullivan? I am sure the fanboys would be defending Higgins?!!

And just because someone has had an exemplary record of fair play beforehand doesn't mean in the spur of the moment they cannot make an error of judgement on a single occasion.


Mr Vodkadiet

He wasn't looking at the red.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby vodkadiet » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Hey look!

Even the best of us are susceptible to behaving out of character at times.

I used to play tennis tournaments and I was playing a match at Wimbledon Park in 1998 and my opponent was cheating a lot and it was annoying me. I had a point to go 5-3 up in the final set. I went for the ace out wide and hit the line half way up and then threw the ball away to receive serve as I knew I had just held for 5-3. My opponent then said "That was wide mate". I remonstrated but the guy refused to accept it. So in the end I had to hit a second serve which he returned on the line in to my backhand corner. I caught the ball and said "That just crept wide". He went ballistic and started smashing all the balls into nearby wood. And he then stormed off of the court thus conceding the match.

I cheated on that one point but I felt it was justified. But it was still out of character for me. We are all fallible. I was fallible on that occasion in Wimbledon Park in 1998 and O'Sullivan was fallible in Crawley on that one occasion 2 decades later. It happens.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Apr 2019 Read

I completely understand what you are saying VD and I've done it too and felt awful about it. There weren't 6 cameras pointing at me though.

If you watch the clip on the table you will see he is not looking at the red that moved, and if he felt it he would have automatically glanced to see what he had hit.

Just my opinion, and sure perhaps that's coloured by my Ronnietart status.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby SnookerFan » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:I completely understand what you are saying VD and I've done it too and felt awful about it. There weren't 6 cameras pointing at me though.

If you watch the clip on the table you will see he is not looking at the red that moved, and if he felt it he would have automatically glanced to see what he had hit.

Just my opinion, and sure perhaps that's coloured by my Ronnietart status.


That's my opinion too.

Not really worth the level of discussion we are giving it.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby rekoons » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:
If you watch the clip on the table you will see he is not looking at the red that moved, and if he felt it he would have automatically glanced to see what he had hit.



That's the only thing imo that advocates he didn't notice. It's impossible to feel the hit and not automatically glance to see what happened. He didn't glance, and we know he's not that good an actor at all! <laugh>

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby vodkadiet » 08 Apr 2019 Read

Dan-cat wrote:I completely understand what you are saying VD and I've done it too and felt awful about it. There weren't 6 cameras pointing at me though.

If you watch the clip on the table you will see he is not looking at the red that moved, and if he felt it he would have automatically glanced to see what he had hit.

Just my opinion, and sure perhaps that's coloured by my Ronnietart status.


Dan-Cat, I guess no one will know but O'Sullivan himself. Maybe it is best to leave all decisions to the referee.

The only time I think it is okay to not play entirely fairly is if you are a cricket batsman. There are plenty of times when they are given out when they aren't out so why should they walk when they are out but not given out?

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Apr 2019 Read

rekoons wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:
If you watch the clip on the table you will see he is not looking at the red that moved, and if he felt it he would have automatically glanced to see what he had hit.



That's the only thing imo that advocates he didn't notice. It's impossible to feel the hit and not automatically glance to see what happened. He didn't glance, and we know he's not that good an actor at all! <laugh>


This is absolutely key. If he'd felt it there's no way he could have helped but look at it, it would have been auto-pilot, the red will have still been moving, he'd have called it on himself.

Re: Ronnie O'Sullivan cheating incident.

Postby Dan-cat » 08 Apr 2019 Read

vodkadiet wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:I completely understand what you are saying VD and I've done it too and felt awful about it. There weren't 6 cameras pointing at me though.

If you watch the clip on the table you will see he is not looking at the red that moved, and if he felt it he would have automatically glanced to see what he had hit.

Just my opinion, and sure perhaps that's coloured by my Ronnietart status.


Dan-Cat, I guess no one will know but O'Sullivan himself. Maybe it is best to leave all decisions to the referee.

The only time I think it is okay to not play entirely fairly is if you are a cricket batsman. There are plenty of times when they are given out when they aren't out so why should they walk when they are out but not given out?


We need a third umpire.
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