Jimmy White vs Judd Trump match up

Johnny Bravo wrote:

SnookerFan wrote: Apart from the 2011 final and the 2013 semi, Judd hasn't had great runs at The Crucible. White was at least getting to the final consistently.

Judd is only 29 now. At this age, Jimmy only had one extra world final. And in a WEAKER era.

Jimmy's career isn't finished yet. I'll have you know he still believes he can win a world title. Come back to me when they're retired.

Cloud Strife wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread isn't about which of them is going to go on and have the better career, as obviously that's going to be Trump at this point. It's about the match-up between their peak versions.

I don't think it's as clear cut in Judd's favour as some are making it out to be. There are aspects of Jimmy's game that are better than Trump's, such as his cueball control. You also have to keep in mind that Jimmy went toe to toe with peak Hendry and twice came within a whisker of beating him. I think he could beat Trump.

Jimmy did not have a better cueball control, he's on par with Judd.
And you are right, Jimmy is capable of beating Judd, but Judd would come out on top more often.

Cloud Strife wrote:How many world titles did Hendry win in the 80s?

U could also ask the same question about Ronnie in the early 90's.
And u know I'm a Ronnete.
In both cases the answer is that they were young and inexperienced and had not peaked yet.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:How many world titles did Hendry win in the 80s?

U could also ask the same question about Ronnie in the early 90's.
And u know I'm a Ronnete.
In both cases the answer is that they were young and inexperienced and had not peaked yet.

That's beside the point.

You said Hendry "beat the crap out of" the competition in the 80s. Either he did or he did not. The fact he failed to win a single world title in the 80s suggests he did not.

Cloud Strife wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:How many world titles did Hendry win in the 80s?

U could also ask the same question about Ronnie in the early 90's.
And u know I'm a Ronnete.
In both cases the answer is that they were young and inexperienced and had not peaked yet.

That's beside the point.

You said Hendry "beat the crap out of" the competition in the 80s. Either he did or he did not. The fact he failed to win a single world title in the 80s suggests he did not.

I meant that he beat the 80's guys, not that he beat them in the 80's.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Cloud makes good points - it was supposed to be about peak.
It is really an unanswerable question IMO.

Peak vs peak, Trump wins it. He's just better all-round.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Cloud makes good points - it was supposed to be about peak.
It is really an unanswerable question IMO.

Agreed. Jimmy at his peak was amazing as well. His cue ball control was fantastic. I think it would be close.

It would be brilliant to see a match between these two at their peak, that's for sure. Talk about fireworks!

As the thread opener I might have to clarify some things. Its not about who will have the better career. Because Trump is the obvious answer from that point of view.

Like Cloud Strife said. Its about the match up between their best versions. But obviously not just in terms of one single match. Because on a good day even a peak journeyman can beat a toppro.

Lets say they would have played in the same era. And you'd have a rivalry between prime White and prime Trump over a 10-15 year period. Similar to O'Sullivan and Higgins even though the latter one is obviously a 25 year old rivalry but you get the point.

And they'd play each other time after time again in those very big matches and tournaments. Lets say in the end you'd have like 50 matches between them.

Would it be a 50/50 battle where both players have around the same number of wins? Or would one guy overpower the other one and have the edge in most of these matches? Who would come out on top and therefore being considered as the superior player?

Good follow up info TheRocket. I think Trump would edge it over an era, If we take their personalities as they are Jimmy would have more distractions off the table that would cost him wins.

Hard to compare eras as would there be a Judd without Jimmy White?

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:How many world titles did Hendry win in the 80s?

U could also ask the same question about Ronnie in the early 90's.
And u know I'm a Ronnete.
In both cases the answer is that they were young and inexperienced and had not peaked yet.

That's beside the point.

You said Hendry "beat the crap out of" the competition in the 80s. Either he did or he did not. The fact he failed to win a single world title in the 80s suggests he did not.

I meant that he beat the 80's guys, not that he beat them in the 80's.

I see. So you're saying Hendry bashed up the 80s guys, but he did it in 90s and 00s instead of the decade in which they were at their best?

Earlier you claimed Hendry did not win a world title in the 80s as he had not yet reached his peak, but you're willing to give him credit for beating players who were well past their prime in the 90s. You can't have it both ways.

Johnny Bravo wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but this thread isn't about which of them is going to go on and have the better career, as obviously that's going to be Trump at this point. It's about the match-up between their peak versions.

I don't think it's as clear cut in Judd's favour as some are making it out to be. There are aspects of Jimmy's game that are better than Trump's, such as his cueball control. You also have to keep in mind that Jimmy went toe to toe with peak Hendry and twice came within a whisker of beating him. I think he could beat Trump.

Jimmy did not have a better cueball control, he's on par with Judd.

Mate, are you actually on heroin?

I think Cloud makes a good point about the original question posed here. At his peak, I’d definitely go with White. Jimmy was mind-blowing on top form.

In terms of which of the two is the greater player overall, pretty even, but Trump will far exceed him. But that’s a different question.

Johnny Bravo wrote:Jimmy did not have a better cueball control, he's on par with Judd..

I disagree. Jimmy at his best had perfect cue ball control. When Trump is at his best, his cue ball control lets him down at times.

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:Jimmy did not have a better cueball control, he's on par with Judd..

I disagree. Jimmy at his best had perfect cue ball control. When Trump is at his best, his cue ball control lets him down at times.

White’s cueball control on much tougher tables was far superior to Trump’s. Trump can be a bit like a bull in a China shop at times. He has improved though.

Pink Ball wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:Jimmy did not have a better cueball control, he's on par with Judd..

I disagree. Jimmy at his best had perfect cue ball control. When Trump is at his best, his cue ball control lets him down at times.

White’s cueball control on much tougher tables was far superior to Trump’s. Trump can be a bit like a bull in a China shop at times. He has improved though.

Is cueball control more difficult on thicker cloths? Genuine question because I don’t know, but I’d have thought thicker cloths allowed more margin for error as a slight over/underhit wouldn’t have as much of an effect whereas on thinner cloths it could change position by a good few inches?

Iranu wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:

Johnny Bravo wrote:Jimmy did not have a better cueball control, he's on par with Judd..

I disagree. Jimmy at his best had perfect cue ball control. When Trump is at his best, his cue ball control lets him down at times.

White’s cueball control on much tougher tables was far superior to Trump’s. Trump can be a bit like a bull in a China shop at times. He has improved though.

Is cueball control more difficult on thicker cloths? Genuine question because I don’t know, but I’d have thought thicker cloths allowed more margin for error as a slight over/underhit wouldn’t have as much of an effect whereas on thinner cloths it could change position by a good few inches?

In my (limited) experience of superfine cloths, it is easier to play round the table into a region or smash the pack up but close control can go wrong quite easily and then small errors are magnified.

Cueball control: definitely White
Safety/tactical play: definitely Trump
Potting: Trump, but White not too far behind

It’s not a question of nostalgia. White at his best was mind-blowing. I’d go as far as to say that there aren’t too many players in history whose peak level was better than White’s peak level. Many players who were actually better overall than White would have struggled against him at his peak, even if they were at full throttle themselves.

Trump has never produced a performance to rival that of a peak White.

In terms of who was better in their prime, that’s impossible to answer, because I think we’re only starting to see Trump come into his prime now.

By the end of Trump’s career, I think he’ll be a multiple World Champion and a far more successful and greater player than White. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he never produced a level of play to rival that of a peak White.