Selby with more WCs than Ronnie?

TheRocket wrote:Just one more thing though. I looked at the stats and saw that no one in the Top16 has a leading H2H against Selby.

Except Ronnie O'Sullivan. That tells quite a lot. Selby is an extremely tough player for anyone to beat and Ronnie in fact does better against him than the other toppros do.

That's quite an interesting stat...

Badsnookerplayer wrote:And which of those players were at the peak of their game that season?
Trump?
Murphy?
You'd do well to remember that.

My point was that if Selby had been in any sort of form then Ronnie would probably have won less. I stand by that.

Trump won the European Masters before reaching the Shanghai final. His peak is winning a tournament a season because that's what he does and the two deep runs he had in the Shanghai Masters and Players Championship he was stopped by Ronnie.

Murphy was reaching lots of finals that season and had won the CoC beating Ronnie, then was stopped in 2 finals after. Murphy was playing better in that season for a while than in previous years.

Are you saying a peak Trump and a peak Murphy beats Ronnie? Pathetic

You know what extremly weak draws are? 2015 China Open when Selby beat Gary Wilson in the final and playing a bunch of grandpas (Ronnie, Higgins and Williams) in finals while Selby's in his prime

but let me guess, Ronnie was at his peak.

It's funny you try to come off as objective when you're just a pathetic troll and always have been. You're essentially saying all the players Ronnie beat would beat Ronnie if they were in their peak.

Give these draws to anyone else and it'd be hard. It's just that Ronnie is that good of a player.

Erza Scarlet wrote:It's funny you try to come off as objective when you're just a pathetic troll and always have been. You're essentially saying all the players Ronnie beat would beat Ronnie if they were in their peak.

Give these draws to anyone else and it'd be hard. It's just that Ronnie is that good of a player.

That's quite nasty.

I just like snooker.

I respect all players and posters alike.

We all have disagreements as that is part of a forum, but there is no need to make personal comments.

I believe - and forgive me if I am wrong - you were the poster who described Selby fans as cancerous. I would have been thoroughly ashamed to have posted that.

What's happening here. Baddy is one of the least troll-ey posters.

Badsnookerplayer is lovely

Is Sullivan has been in better form in 16/17, Selby would have won less.

I think what Badsnookerplayer says is pretty fair comment. Selby and O’Sullivan, patches of bad for aside, are the two best players on the tour. Or they’re the two with the highest potential at all times.

I take the point that a lot of opponents considered ‘easy’ for O’Sullivan wouldn’t be considered easy for anyone else. That’s what great players do.

Other than that, Badsnookerplayer’s comment is pretty fair — and obvious!

Badsnookerplayer wrote:That's quite nasty.

I just like snooker.

I respect all players and posters alike.

We all have disagreements as that is part of a forum, but there is no need to make personal comments.

I believe - and forgive me if I am wrong - you were the poster who described Selby fans as cancerous. I would have been thoroughly ashamed to have posted that.

Do you think I care that it's nasty? Lol. How many times have we clashed and where did I give the impression that I liked you? I never have and never will so I called you out. There isn't a rule saying I have to respect you.

> Respect all players

Give me a break. You don't do that at all. Have you seen your Ronnie posts? The problem with you is

#1 You're passive aggressive - which leads to
#2 You're dishonest.


I'm honest with players who I like or don't like. Which playing styles I like or don't like. I don't go around being passive-aggressive like you do, pretending to claim you respect all players then after a week or so, demean the said player. Erm, where is your so called "respect" gone? For example when Ronnie wins tournaments, you say "congratulations, the deserved player won" then after a few days you're ripping on Ronnie for the tournament he won because it was "easy".

You're fake as someone can get so you deserve to be called out on.

Also Ronnie destroyed his opponents in the finals last season is because of his playing style. His style has always allowed him to do that.

Just because Selby keeps having tight matches doesn't make it more harder, it's because he isn't talented and good enough as Ronnie to win matches comfortably. He has to grind to win matches that's why the matches get so close and gives the false impression he has tougher matches. While Ronnie could play the same opponent and finish with a thrashing.

You need to calm down a bit.

If you need some relaxation techniques I would be happy to pass some ideas to you. Rescue remedy is quite good for agressive people I hear.

Otherwise stop communicating with/about me. It is a little weird and I am stopping my side of the conversation here.

Error.

Erza Scarlet wrote:It's funny you try to come off as objective when you're just a pathetic troll and always have been. You're essentially saying all the players Ronnie beat would beat Ronnie if they were in their peak.

Give these draws to anyone else and it'd be hard. It's just that Ronnie is that good of a player.

Erza nobody is saying that point is though Ronnie by his own admition has not played well and Won Tournaments which im sure disapoints him that nobody came up with the goods last season to trully challange him.

And its obvious to anyone that Selby was well off his top form last season hes actually played better this season than he did for the whole of last season.

Selby's Breakbuilding can be up and down however Last season even his safety game was well off what he normally plays at and thats the biggest indication of how Selby was playing in 2017/2018 season.

Erza Scarlet wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:That's quite nasty.

I just like snooker.

I respect all players and posters alike.

We all have disagreements as that is part of a forum, but there is no need to make personal comments.

I believe - and forgive me if I am wrong - you were the poster who described Selby fans as cancerous. I would have been thoroughly ashamed to have posted that.

Do you think I care that it's nasty? Lol. How many times have we clashed and where did I give the impression that I liked you? I never have and never will so I called you out. There isn't a rule saying I have to respect you.

> Respect all players

Give me a break. You don't do that at all. Have you seen your Ronnie posts? The problem with you is

#1 You're passive aggressive - which leads to
#2 You're dishonest.


I'm honest with players who I like or don't like. Which playing styles I like or don't like. I don't go around being passive-aggressive like you do, pretending to claim you respect all players then after a week or so, demean the said player. Erm, where is your so called "respect" gone? For example when Ronnie wins tournaments, you say "congratulations, the deserved player won" then after a few days you're ripping on Ronnie for the tournament he won because it was "easy".

You're fake as someone can get so you deserve to be called out on.

Or maybe he was, you know, having a laugh?

Think Selby will win one more at most

I wouldn’t be surprised if Selby made it to five, but I’d be more surprised if O’Sullivan finished on five

SnookerFan wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if Selby made it to five, but I’d be more surprised if O’Sullivan finished on five

I think we've all agreed on this.

The king of posts has spoken.

BadSnookerplayer comments were fair.

Maybe if Selby had played ROS last season he would not have won as much titles as he did, but this is only a guess. Selby is one of his biggest rivals so when they play its pretty much 50/50.

However, to anybody else, Ronnie's draws would have been considered hard, so its a testement to how good he is that he can make them look weak. You can say they fold at the sight of Ronnie, but so did Davis and Hendry's many opponents. This is due to being one of the greatest of all time.

And I'm not denying he hasnt had easy draws, he has, the UK run until the Final this season was a complete joke, but at least he won against somebody playing the snooker of his life, and thats all you can do.

SnookerFan wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:I wouldn’t be surprised if Selby made it to five, but I’d be more surprised if O’Sullivan finished on five

I think we've all agreed on this.

Not all but most.

I can see Selby winning 5, and ROS ending with 6. 7 seems out of reach but you never know...

Players have easy draws all the time and still lose. Selby lost "easy" matches last season.

Ronnie's one of the best there is at making the most of easy draws.

Andre147 wrote:BadSnookerplayer comments were fair.

Maybe if Selby had played ROS last season he would not have won as much titles as he did, but this is only a guess. Selby is one of his biggest rivals so when they play its pretty much 50/50.

However, to anybody else, Ronnie's draws would have been considered hard, so its a testement to how good he is that he can make them look weak. You can say they fold at the sight of Ronnie, but so did Davis and Hendry's many opponents. This is due to being one of the greatest of all time.

And I'm not denying he hasnt had easy draws, he has, the UK run until the Final this season was a complete joke, but at least he won against somebody playing the snooker of his life, and thats all you can do.

Had Selby played Ronnie last season Ronnie would have hammered him his all round game was Woefull.

Lets take a look at the H2H. Which is quite revealing. The longer the match goes the better it is for Selby. As his match up advantage is more likely to come into play. This is their H2H in their real matches (no Premier League,PTC,Shootout,CL). Ronnie is leading 9:7 atm.

Bo 9: Ronnie 3:1 Selby
Bo 11: Ronnie 2:1 Selby
Bo 17: Ronnie 2:1 Selby
Bo 19: Ronnie 2:2 Selby
Bo 25: Ronnie 0:1 Selby
Bo 35: Ronnie 0:1 Selby

When looking at those stats I'd give Ronnie a 70% chance to beat Selby in a bo9 and 11. If its a bo17 or 19 its turning more into 50/50. If both play at their best I'd still favour Ronnie. Just.
If its Bo25 or longer Selby probably should be regarded as the favourite. Even though I'd like to see them play more bo25 and longer matches to make a better assessment.

TheRocket wrote:The longer the match goes the better it is for Selby. As his match up advantage is more likely to come into play.

While I'm sure this is still true, I'm tempted to think that Selby's advantage over Ronnie in longer matches is getting smaller, because of Ronnie's newfound willingness/ability to win scrappy frames, fight through long safety battles, win in a boring way rather than lose in an entertaining way, etc. Plus, I think Ronnie's confidence that he can win the longer matches and his desire to do so (which have arguably always been Ronnie's biggest obstacle) are possibly at all-time highs, which would appear to bode well for Ronnie's chances at the Crucible in the next few years.

But we won't know for sure until/unless they play each other in a longer match again. It's kind of amazing that they managed to win a combined 11 events between them in the past 2 seasons without playing each other in any of them...

TheRocket wrote:Lets take a look at the H2H. Which is quite revealing. The longer the match goes the better it is for Selby. As his match up advantage is more likely to come into play. This is their H2H in their real matches (no Premier League,PTC,Shootout,CL). Ronnie is leading 9:7 atm.

Bo 9: Ronnie 3:1 Selby
Bo 11: Ronnie 2:1 Selby
Bo 17: Ronnie 2:1 Selby
Bo 19: Ronnie 2:2 Selby
Bo 25: Ronnie 0:1 Selby
Bo 35: Ronnie 0:1 Selby

When looking at those stats I'd give Ronnie a 70% chance to beat Selby in a bo9 and 11. If its a bo17 or 19 its turning more into 50/50. If both play at their best I'd still favour Ronnie. Just.
If its Bo25 or longer Selby probably should be regarded as the favourite. Even though I'd like to see them play more bo25 and longer matches to make a better assessment.

Selby's problem is he often starts slow, so in shorter matches like Best of 9 or 11 there's much less time to recover.

In Best of 19s or above even if he has a slow start he can recover, and if you look at their longer matches you can check Selby trailed at some point. We all know what happened in the 2014 World Final, and in 2010 Selby also trailed 7-5 or something like that, as well as their infamous 2010 Masters Final. The only longer match Selby had a big advantage was their 2016 UK final when he led 6-2.

So in short I agree with you, the longer matches favour Selby, but Ronnie also well capable of beating him in those as he's shown. Sadly never at The Crucible but I hope he makes that right.

@ D4P.

I agree. Ronnie seems to be better prepared to fight and battle these days. Especially in those scrappy frames. So I wouldn't expect him to totally collapse and lose the plot like he did in the 2014 world final. And I think he treates and sees his matches against Selby more like a challenge these days. While in the past he didn't.

In Northern Ireland Ronnie played his best match in the semifinal. I didn't expect him to play that well after he treated the first rounds like a exhibition. But he wanted to beat Selby at all costs and he did. He needs to have that kind of attitude in their future matches.

TheRocket wrote:Lets take a look at the H2H. Which is quite revealing. The longer the match goes the better it is for Selby. As his match up advantage is more likely to come into play. This is their H2H in their real matches (no Premier League,PTC,Shootout,CL). Ronnie is leading 9:7 atm.

Bo 9: Ronnie 3:1 Selby
Bo 11: Ronnie 2:1 Selby
Bo 17: Ronnie 2:1 Selby
Bo 19: Ronnie 2:2 Selby
Bo 25: Ronnie 0:1 Selby
Bo 35: Ronnie 0:1 Selby

When looking at those stats I'd give Ronnie a 70% chance to beat Selby in a bo9 and 11. If its a bo17 or 19 its turning more into 50/50. If both play at their best I'd still favour Ronnie. Just.
If its Bo25 or longer Selby probably should be regarded as the favourite. Even though I'd like to see them play more bo25 and longer matches to make a better assessment.

Hey, nice stats, thanks 4 the info.

But I still think ROS has lost longer matches due to the age factor. He gets tired a lot quicker than the younger player, so he can't maintain his concentration and play well towards the end.

I think the last three posts sum it up well - Johhny, Rocket and Andre

If Ronnie is ever to have a another WC then this season will be the one.

He is on the back of some great form and seems to have the appetite for longer matches (I think). For me he is favourite for WC 2019.

Sullivan will probably have five or six more good shots st it the way things are going.