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Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 08 Feb 2022 Read

SnookerFan wrote:Barry Hawkins vs Zhao should've been the evening match today. Not Ronnie vs Judd.

Imagine the consternation if Ronnie-Judd was the afternoon rofl

I guess afternoon was better for Chinese audiences.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby shanew48 » 01 Mar 2022 Read

Barry Hawkins - painful lack of eye contact- shyness or Autism?

If an escort arrived late when visiting Shaun Murphy, would he contact her superior requesting that she is docked part of her fee?

Surely not all Chinese players who win their first ranking event are destined to be "a future world champion" I'm sure the same would have been said of Ding and, so far, that hasn't played out as no doubt it would have been very confidently predicted at the time.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby SnookerFan » 02 Mar 2022 Read

shanew48 wrote:If an escort arrived late when visiting Shaun Murphy, would he contact her superior requesting that she is docked part of her fee?


rofl rofl rofl rofl

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby SnookerFan » 01 Apr 2022 Read

There is only one Major in snooker.

The World Championship.

You can make the case for other tournaments, but they all fall down somewhere. A major is determined on history, all of the top player having competed for it, prize money, match length, public acknowledgment and how much it captures their imagination.

The UK staked a claim, until they shortened the matches. Still a big tournament as it fulfils the history and public awareness criteria, but shortening the matches made it less than it was.

Things like the Tour Championship, and even the Champion Of Champions have been called majors. But I'm not so sure. Fun and successful tournaments, don't get me wrong. But don't quite have the history for it. And getting tucked away on ITV4 means they don't get the public awareness that it might. Same with the International Championship. Longer matches in the latter stages are fine. But no history, and there'd be a lot of casuals who wouldn't know of it due it being on Eurosport only.

The Masters is the other that gets mentioned, and has a special place for me. But then, I can commute to London, so have attended The Masters a lot over the years. Had I just watched it on purely TV, I wonder if I'd feel the same attachment to it.

What I'm saying is that in a situation where a tournament's right to be called a major is debated, or open to certain interpretations, that means the tournament isn't a major. The World Championship is the only tournament that everybody agrees is a major, because it's the only one that ticks any and every standard to which a major can be judged. Other tournaments are just based on which one the viewer prefers personally.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Prop » 01 Apr 2022 Read

SnookerFan wrote:There is only one Major in snooker.

The World Championship.

You can make the case for other tournaments, but they all fall down somewhere. A major is determined on history, all of the top player having competed for it, prize money, match length, public acknowledgment and how much it captures their imagination.

The UK staked a claim, until they shortened the matches. Still a big tournament as it fulfils the history and public awareness criteria, but shortening the matches made it less than it was.

Things like the Tour Championship, and even the Champion Of Champions have been called majors. But I'm not so sure. Fun and successful tournaments, don't get me wrong. But don't quite have the history for it. And getting tucked away on ITV4 means they don't get the public awareness that it might. Same with the International Championship. Longer matches in the latter stages are fine. But no history, and there'd be a lot of casuals who wouldn't know of it due it being on Eurosport only.

The Masters is the other that gets mentioned, and has a special place for me. But then, I can commute to London, so have attended The Masters a lot over the years. Had I just watched it on purely TV, I wonder if I'd feel the same attachment to it.

What I'm saying is that in a situation where a tournament's right to be called a major is debated, or open to certain interpretations, that means the tournament isn't a major. The World Championship is the only tournament that everybody agrees is a major, because it's the only one that ticks any and every standard to which a major can be judged. Other tournaments are just based on which one the viewer prefers personally.


More of a warm take.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 01 Apr 2022 Read

I don’t think major necessarily means “equal best”. But yeah the WC stands alone and the idea of a Triple Crown is kind of silly.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby SnookerFan » 01 Apr 2022 Read

Iranu wrote:I don’t think major necessarily means “equal best”. But yeah the WC stands alone and the idea of a Triple Crown is kind of silly.


Yeah, I guess.

It can be quite subjective about what people thinks makes a tournament a major. My list above was more of a list of things that COULD be considerations.

Another thing that never gets mentioned is having a venue that fits the tournament. The Masters just feels bigger now it's in the Ally Pally than when at Wembley Arena, for example.

The point is, that no matter what makes you judge a tournament a major, The Worlds has it. The only real blip in an otherwise perfect event is that the they've now shortened some of the qualifiers. No other tournament ticks literally every box you could have to constitute it a major.

Maybe your way of phrasing is better. Some tournaments are more major than others, but the Triple Crown doesn't exist.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby LDS » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 15 Apr 2022 Read

LDS wrote:Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.

Yeah I can definitely see this. Look how some fans complain about what Ronnie’s won (or hasn’t won) despite all his success.

I wonder if he’d still be as beloved today as he is if he’d won one. Maybe that ‘failure’ helps keep him close to fans’ hearts.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Juddernaut88 » 15 Apr 2022 Read

LDS wrote:Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.


:goodpost:

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Pink Ball » 15 Apr 2022 Read

LDS wrote:Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.

Total bullocks

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Andre147 » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Pink Ball wrote:
LDS wrote:Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.

Total bullocks


Maybe not... remember O'Sullivan, especially after losing to David Gray in 2000, was being considered as the best player never to win the world title alongside Jimmy White. Imagine if Ronnie's single title came in 2001 and then he doesn't win another... people would say he should have won more.

Jimmy "only" being on one might have had a similar effect.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Pink Ball » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Andre147 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
LDS wrote:Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.

Total bullocks


Maybe not... remember O'Sullivan, especially after losing to David Gray in 2000, was being considered as the best player never to win the world title alongside Jimmy White. Imagine if Ronnie's single title came in 2001 and then he doesn't win another... people would say he should have won more.

Jimmy "only" being on one might have had a similar effect.

Total bullocks. By 1993 I was just desperate for him to win one, didn't give a flying buck beyond that.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Andre147 » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Pink Ball wrote:
Andre147 wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
LDS wrote:Hot Take:

Even if Jimmy White did win one of his world finals against Hendry, people would still be moaning and complaining about him not winning more than 1 world title to about the same degree they do about him not winning any.

Total bullocks


Maybe not... remember O'Sullivan, especially after losing to David Gray in 2000, was being considered as the best player never to win the world title alongside Jimmy White. Imagine if Ronnie's single title came in 2001 and then he doesn't win another... people would say he should have won more.

Jimmy "only" being on one might have had a similar effect.

Total bullocks. By 1993 I was just desperate for him to win one, didn't give a flying buck beyond that.


But you just don't know how you would feel had he won it... but I see your point.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Pink Ball wrote:Total bullocks. By 1993 I was just desperate for him to win one, didn't give a flying buck beyond that.

Yeah but what if he’d won it in 1984?

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Pink Ball » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Total bullocks. By 1993 I was just desperate for him to win one, didn't give a flying buck beyond that.

Yeah but what if he’d won it in 1984?

Yeah, I'd have been snake hissed off with one title, but it wouldn't ruin my every waking moment.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Total bullocks. By 1993 I was just desperate for him to win one, didn't give a flying buck beyond that.

Yeah but what if he’d won it in 1984?

Yeah, I'd have been snake hissed off with one title, but it wouldn't ruin my every waking moment.

So LDS has a point then?

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Pink Ball » 15 Apr 2022 Read

Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:
Iranu wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:Total bullocks. By 1993 I was just desperate for him to win one, didn't give a flying buck beyond that.

Yeah but what if he’d won it in 1984?

Yeah, I'd have been snake hissed off with one title, but it wouldn't ruin my every waking moment.

So LDS has a point then?

No, "to about the same degree" is total bullocks.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Pink Ball » 20 Apr 2022 Read

While it’s often said that the Crucible comes into its own at the one-table stage, as an attendee, I prefer the two-table stage. Aside from the fact that you’ve a great view of at least one table wherever you’re sitting, I love being up close to see how the venue is a claustrophobic player’s nightmare.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 20 Apr 2022 Read

I dunno if I’d say I prefer it but I always love being able to have a second match on the go in the background.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby shanew48 » 21 Apr 2022 Read

Robertson won't be considered an ATG unless he finishes with more than one WC? is the bar generally considered to be at least 3 WC wins to be considered an ATG? Obviously Higgins is the exception with 2 WC wins but all the others who are considered ATG's have at least 3 WC wins on their snooker CV don't they?

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby TheRocket » 21 Apr 2022 Read

shanew48 wrote:Robertson won't be considered an ATG unless he finishes with more than one WC? is the bar generally considered to be at least 3 WC wins to be considered an ATG? Obviously Higgins is the exception with 2 WC wins but all the others who are considered ATG's have at least 3 WC wins on their snooker CV don't they?


When Williams was on 2 which he had been for a long time (15 years) most people already considered him an All-Time Great. Same could apply to Robertson.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Iranu » 21 Apr 2022 Read

TheRocket wrote:
shanew48 wrote:Robertson won't be considered an ATG unless he finishes with more than one WC? is the bar generally considered to be at least 3 WC wins to be considered an ATG? Obviously Higgins is the exception with 2 WC wins but all the others who are considered ATG's have at least 3 WC wins on their snooker CV don't they?


When Williams was on 2 which he had been for a long time (15 years) most people already considered him an All-Time Great. Same could apply to Robertson.

He was the first of the CO92 to get to 2 world titles. It took until 2007 for any of them to get to three. Since then Ronnie, Higgins and Selby have all got to 4, as well as Williams adding a third.

Depends on what people mean by ATG - you could argue the bar is higher now than it was in 2003.

One of those things that will be endlessly debated!

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby TheRocket » 21 Apr 2022 Read

you could indeed argue that the bar is higher now since quite a few players have won 3 or more.

What speaks for Robertson is that he has also won 3 UK's , 2 Masters, 2 Tour Champs, 2 CoC. So he won all the big ones bar the Worlds multiple times. I'd say if he wins a second World title, it would be just enough to get to ATG level. But that would only apply to Robertson, not for someone like Trump who hasnt done enough in the bigger non-WC events.

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Yanfan » 21 Apr 2022 Read

Iranu wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
shanew48 wrote:Robertson won't be considered an ATG unless he finishes with more than one WC? is the bar generally considered to be at least 3 WC wins to be considered an ATG? Obviously Higgins is the exception with 2 WC wins but all the others who are considered ATG's have at least 3 WC wins on their snooker CV don't they?


When Williams was on 2 which he had been for a long time (15 years) most people already considered him an All-Time Great. Same could apply to Robertson.

He was the first of the CO92 to get to 2 world titles. It took until 2007 for any of them to get to three. Since then Ronnie, Higgins and Selby have all got to 4, as well as Williams adding a third.

Depends on what people mean by ATG - you could argue the bar is higher now than it was in 2003.

One of those things that will be endlessly debated!

I love a good debate. <ok>

Some people don't like them, though. :shrug:

Re: Snooker Hot Takes

Postby Juddernaut88 » 21 Apr 2022 Read

Iranu wrote:
TheRocket wrote:
shanew48 wrote:Robertson won't be considered an ATG unless he finishes with more than one WC? is the bar generally considered to be at least 3 WC wins to be considered an ATG? Obviously Higgins is the exception with 2 WC wins but all the others who are considered ATG's have at least 3 WC wins on their snooker CV don't they?


When Williams was on 2 which he had been for a long time (15 years) most people already considered him an All-Time Great. Same could apply to Robertson.

He was the first of the CO92 to get to 2 world titles. It took until 2007 for any of them to get to three. Since then Ronnie, Higgins and Selby have all got to 4, as well as Williams adding a third.

Depends on what people mean by ATG - you could argue the bar is higher now than it was in 2003.

One of those things that will be endlessly debated!


It was 2008 the first time a class of 92 won a 3rd world title. In 2007 John Higgins won his 2nd and in 2008 Ronnie won his 3rd. Higgins then won his 3rd in 2009 and the rest of course is history.
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