This whole thing about Hearn punishing people with high AST

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

Badsnookerplayer wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

I agree.

My opponent yesterday was trying all that sort of stuff and sometimes it backfires as it made me certain to beat him.
Beat the cheats

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

Im still not sure how speed of play puts a opponent off they are sitting in their chair and not actually playing a shot to be put off

Dan-cat wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

Im still not sure how speed of play puts a opponent off they are sitting in their chair and not actually playing a shot to be put off

Snooker at any level, but especially at the top level is a mental game.

If you can get inside your opponent’s head and annoy him then you will help your cause.

Sure, you could say well that’s your fault if you let it annoy you - but this is easier said than done.

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

Im still not sure how speed of play puts a opponent off they are sitting in their chair and not actually playing a shot to be put off

Snooker at any level, but especially at the top level is a mental game.

If you can get inside your opponent’s head and annoy him then you will help your cause.

Sure, you could say well that’s your fault if you let it annoy you - but this is easier said than done.

Getting inside the players head is something Ronnie does when he clears up from a impossible situation and Hendry did it with knocking in a long pot and clearing up with a frame winning break.

it really is part of sport to gain a phsycilogical advantage every player cant do it the Ronnie or Hendry way so they have to find another way around that.


Sport is about playing and gaining the best way to win that match.

Pink Ball wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:Anything that attempts to put your opponent off, seize the upper hand, falls under gamesmanship. Surely?

Im still not sure how speed of play puts a opponent off they are sitting in their chair and not actually playing a shot to be put off

Snooker at any level, but especially at the top level is a mental game.

If you can get inside your opponent’s head and annoy him then you will help your cause.

Sure, you could say well that’s your fault if you let it annoy you - but this is easier said than done.

Getting inside the players head is something Ronnie does when he clears up from a impossible situation and Hendry did it with knocking in a long pot and clearing up with a frame winning break.

it really is part of sport to gain a phsycilogical advantage every player cant do it the Ronnie or Hendry way so they have to find another way around that.


Sport is about playing and gaining the best way to win that match.

The former two are achieved through playing the game. The latter is gamesmanship. The comparison is nonsense.

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Watching Milkins play ROS was one of the most embarrassing sporting spectacles I have ever seen.

And I don't mind Milkins

Dan-cat wrote:

Badsnookerplayer wrote:Watching Milkins play ROS was one of the most embarrassing sporting spectacles I have ever seen.

And I don't mind Milkins

Which match?

Wildey wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:

Wildey wrote:Im still not sure how speed of play puts a opponent off they are sitting in their chair and not actually playing a shot to be put off

Snooker at any level, but especially at the top level is a mental game.

If you can get inside your opponent’s head and annoy him then you will help your cause.

Sure, you could say well that’s your fault if you let it annoy you - but this is easier said than done.

Getting inside the players head is something Ronnie does when he clears up from a impossible situation and Hendry did it with knocking in a long pot and clearing up with a frame winning break.

it really is part of sport to gain a phsycilogical advantage every player cant do it the Ronnie or Hendry way so they have to find another way around that.


Sport is about playing and gaining the best way to win that match.

The former two are achieved through playing the game. The latter is gamesmanship. The comparison is nonsense.

no its not its about winning a snooker match if everyone could play to that sort f level the likes of Ronnie wouldn't be on the pedestal he is he would be just the norm fact is trying to compete with these players is difficult if your going to try and pot them off the table its not going to happen is it.

Pink Ball wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:
Snooker at any level, but especially at the top level is a mental game.

If you can get inside your opponent’s head and annoy him then you will help your cause.

Sure, you could say well that’s your fault if you let it annoy you - but this is easier said than done.

Getting inside the players head is something Ronnie does when he clears up from a impossible situation and Hendry did it with knocking in a long pot and clearing up with a frame winning break.

it really is part of sport to gain a phsycilogical advantage every player cant do it the Ronnie or Hendry way so they have to find another way around that.


Sport is about playing and gaining the best way to win that match.

The former two are achieved through playing the game. The latter is gamesmanship. The comparison is nonsense.

no its not its about winning a snooker match if everyone could play to that sort f level the likes of Ronnie wouldn't be on the pedestal he is he would be just the norm fact is trying to compete with these players is difficult if your going to try and pot them off the table its not going to happen is it.

Then that's their bucking tough. If they're not good enough they've no business being there.

Pink Ball wrote:an arse-around tour.

Pink Ball wrote:And? It's a snooker tour, not an arse-around tour.

Dan-cat wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:And? It's a snooker tour, not an arse-around tour.

The nearly men often journey for years and then rise to the fore like Bingo and Bazzo.

Dan-cat wrote:Snookerarcher, you are loooong.

As a Snooker fan, to boycott the world final, the icing on the Christmas cake at the end of our season is just plain contrary.

Also on snookerisland we have the APL stat (average post length) - anything over 30 lines will be given a warning

SnookerArcher wrote:Firstly to address the annoying defenders of deliberate slowplay (Figures their idol is Selby ), yes what makes Ronnie stand out above the rest well there's many but his speed has always been one of the biggest factors and how damn easy he rattles in the balls when he's firing. Not everyone well very few can play anywhere that fluently, a lot more this generation and yes they said Hendry changed the game into more attacking though Ronnie pushed it further, anycase it sped the game up hence the greater amount of centuries and maximums in the modern era (I've always taken centuries for granted as I started watching snooker in Jimmy White/Hendry era, curse greedy Hendry beating him every world final lol, Ronnie in a way is seeing Jimmy vicariously winning the big titles even the world titles, if not for 2014 and Ronnie having a bad final day or as many debate it was Selby's slow and awkward play rather it would have been a reversal of Jimmy's Crucible career, whereas Jimmy lost all 6 finals Ronnie won or at least should have won all 6 of his...)

So badsnookerplayer, it's very far from only Ronnie fans bashing Selby's slow play when he loses to him in a final, that's utter codswallop they'd dislike seeing any player slow especially deliberate, will go more into naturally slow and purposely later.... So if it had been Ronnie won 2014 against Selby yet it was Ronnie playing the 'scrappy' game as John Parrott often likes to use that term, a win's a win I was actually not unhappy for Selby back then, didn't know anything about him and it was his first title, Ronnie already had 5 and held it 2yrs in a row but boy sure ended up despising Selby since 2016 or more the brown nosing he's gotten since being double world champion (He had WAY too much limelight at the crucible 40th function, really was disgusting not a single mention went to Ronnie's 5:08/20 147 when they mentioned Cliff's one, utter disrespect that) Most people prefer a faster game in the modern era, we can debate the ideal length of a frame... For me being drawn past to Jimmy and since Ronnie as they're speed players (Rocket, Whirlwind) in contrast average players seem slow and slow players are a hell to watch, am spoilt that regard cos I've seen so much or primarily watch Ronnie's game it's at the very least an adjustment to watch others as they generally won't have anywhere that speed, while there are many mainly older people who like gritty snooker over clinical clearances for me that becomes boring quickly if too often, 10m ish is fine for me per frame a few 15m+ is okay a bit of scrap can be fun but when frames are frequently 30m+ or even over an hour that is painful for the viewer must be excruciating for the players! No surprises these long drawn frames often have Selby involved so it's no wonder why his unpopular with many people not just Rocket fans! Ronnie as great as he is recently at times has gotten scrappier with his game, notably his last Masters winning tournament to date, the only high standard match he produced was the semi final vs Marco Fu after he changed his cue tip, best match of that tournament was sad to see Marco fall flat vs Selby in the Crucible, especially as he nearly beat Selby in the previous year's semi final and really wished he had (That semi final was where Selby set the new record for longest frame ergh.....) So let's analyse these long drawn put plays, it's not Selby is slow with his shot time, when he's breakbuilding he's not terribly slow and he's actually an adept breakbuilder and very good at rebounds so he can do crowd pleasing shots. However when he's not in command that's when he's very ugly to watch, he'll in effect troll his opponent to frustrate them to making mistakes and never do you see a more desperate man trying to win, it's visible on his face too it's pathetic! Ronnie does make the effort more with age to try to hang on, perhaps he'd won many more matches if he had Selby's ethic when younger but anyhow I can't recall seeing many Ronnie frames that last 30m+ let alone 1hr, he said himself he prefers a quick death to long drawn out losses... Ronnie's Player's Championship vs Ding iirc, it was either Ding or Selby he'd face in the final and he said he'd rather face Ding as Selby will likely be a very long match! Certainly most the of audience must have felt the same... As a rule of thumb when watching a snooker match online, if the length is short it's usually Ronnie won and I can definitely if the match was very long it was most likely a Selby match! No thank you Selby is a throwback to old snooker, he'd done very well maybe in the old era when they had matches that consisted of first to 30+ frames and low standard breakbuilding..... I cannot condone his way of play, day 1 2014 final Ronnie was pasting him with a 10-5 lead, Selby pulled back 2 frames and fairness his semi final with Neil Robertson was very long and close so that was Ronnie's best chance to crush him (In the Ronnie O'Sullivan show he said so that he felt he lost the final by end of day one cos Selby was vulnerable and Ronnie only ended the day with a 3 frame lead) Day 2 majority of Selby's frame wins were very low standard in scoring he had high breaks of 20+? Generally speaking while some scrap is engaging if a match is very broken up aside from it dragging on in time it does get tedious. I didn't watch the UK final of 2016 but reading it on wikipedia at least there it ended with 5centuries between the two finalists, I cannot begrudge Selby in that regard it's a clean victory. Regardless of who wins if the winner won by great breakbuilding or laying snookers, they deserve the win. If they deliberately play in a way to irk the opponent so they make mistakes, while it's not against any rules it is bad sport, I can forgive the player lacking table time in snooker to pot a few balls to get some practise in, if they do it just to annoy the opponent so they lose their rhythm that's not cool. Someone keeps asking why it's an issue if someone is slow, in a turn based game it certainly is! Waiting for your shot especially in such a long game is frustrating, especially if the players haven't potted a ball a long time, I'm not a snooker player but from playing any turn based game such as pool, chess etc indeed waiting is not fun. I imagine especially so for those with mental issues such as Ronnie, those demons may flare up when not on the table etc especially if you're trailing. What is unforgivable are those that employ Robidoux like tactics where they clearly are very unlikely to win yet play on to waste time, that is deliberate trolling and they should be punished for that! It's a waste of everyone's time and if it's purposely to try to throw off the winning player by not beating them cleanly in the game that not only is despicable it should be an offence! It's very sad many fans condone or even like underhand play, take NBA that sad excuse of a human Draymond Green is a terrible player the offences he commits in fouling yet many fans like seeing fouls! Again it's the case he's not good enough in actual basketball he gains advantages by breaking rules through intimidating or injuring his opponents, proper sport has no place for that but of course 'sport' is money has been a long time sadly.

Stephen Hendry himself often speaks out about how snooker 'should be played', yes he was always offence oriented, probably a big reason why he basically sucked after his last world title at the least he wasn't winning much after that, yes his cue broke and he got the yips but also with his strongest weapon his breakbuilding not being up to scratch anymore it exposed he wasn't a true complete player that he couldn't rely on safety etc to cover up the times his offence wasn't there (Ronnie's an attacking player we all know too but he's far more complete in the non attack areas of snooker than Hendry so he's more able to weather the times his breakbuilding isn't there, ultimately of course he wins less matches when it's not than when he's in flow he's been fortunate brutal honesty when at times he's not firing and his opponent also isn't... He said after his quarter final with Neil Robertson in 2017 Masters he dragged him down so the standard wasn't high for the match) but anyhow the one many still regard as the GOAT says it you should clean up the table when you can and not leave a chance for the enemy to play on for snookers where you end up with 40m+ of knocking balls around (Cough Selby matches ) so sounds like Hendry doesn't approve of Selby tactics either haha!

I do agree with your point about boxers cuddling, absolutely despise that it should result in points docked it's a boxing match, not judo or sumo! Often it's the losing boxer who does it and yes it's dirty play, stops the other guy who usually is the one in control of the fight and tires both of them or at least can tire the guy being grabbed, the other would do so they get hit less and get some energy back or at least recover from being dazed... Definitely don't employ that tactic in a kickboxing match cos that's inviting the grabber to get kneed I know some were confused with the boxing analogy, slow play or deliberately making little effort to move the match along is in effect similar it's timewasting done by a losing player/fighter cos they aren't able to beat the other guy properly. Though yes indeed regardless of honour, pleasing the crowd etc it is the pro's career. Ronnie said he doesn't want to win ugly but indeed you can't always win gloriously, his 2017 Masters win was such a contrast to his 2016 am still happy he did it and set the record for Masters wins but did still wasn't fully happy how he won but that's Ronnie while he can scrap when he really wants something it's not his nature, besides his first World title all his finals pre Selby were rather nice scorelines, Ali Carter and Graeme Dott didn't even reach halfway losing 18-8, Ali 2012 got to 11 and Barry 12, not a close contest though scorelines as Ronnie said are deceptive, frames often are closely contested and Barry's case he was keeping up with Ronnie till the last day and session, he even led briefly first day... So in conclusion and yes my maiden post here and for any snooker forum was way too long! For me it's not so much if someone shoots below 10secs or are over 20 that bothers me, many shots require more time it's deliberate slow play that irks me and playing on needlessly out of desperation (Selby did that clearly he was in fear of the proper Ronnie turning up for their quarter finals Masters 2016 so after Ronnie had won a frame but not cleared up Selby played on hmph... (Fairness Ronnie did that to Neil Robertson same year Welsh open final, whether to get some practise or really to throw off Neil's offence idk but hope the former cos it's hypocritical if the latter with Ronnie openly saying how he dislikes slow play etc) So I am not against if anything I condone psychological battles if someone does it cleanly, ie they are breakbuilding like Ronnie on a good day scaring the out of the opponent that they are afraid to make a mistake and end up doing so, that's a clean hit as such if it were a fighting contest. However winding someone up such as cracking ice, farting... Even if the wind up merchant wins it wasn't done by their skill so they should be ashamed, I certainly am not happy not to win fair and square call me a perfectionist, always feel shortchanged if the victor did it with help from their opponent in some way, e.g. Ronnie and his many victories and there are many, it's not always down to his GOAT breakbuilding quite often it's his opponent who made a mistake to let him in, indeed he still needs to do the potting so that's not something to take away from him but fact he didn't get in by his on ability isn't sweet as him making some impossible shot to get the break starting Or frames he steals, counter clearances are great and awful if it's the one you're rooting for loses the frame that was theirs but not as satisfying as 1visit snooker. Maybe too spoilt by the modern era as 1table visits are too common now....

I don't like Barry Hearn, will make that clear now but I do agree players shouldn't deliberately play slow when it's not needed, I thankfully didn't watch much of Ebdon's era (He is a nutjob, I remember him screaming COME ON vs Jimmy White in Crucible 1996) but yeah sure he took the biscuit with that 5m+ time to make 1 shot and he still missed haha, people bash Selby's slowplay but heard Ebdon was a different level to Selby, yikes... Ronnie did take a long time to make 1 shot in the Marco Fu match 2017, boy it was worth it he made the most amazing longpot... But yeah it's not simply about average shot time it should be analysed more on when the player plays slow to get some advantage over their opponent, trying to set up a snooker or get out of one that's warranted by boring the opponent to death to ruin their focus is not on.... Again that day 17 for 2014 world championship was abysmal in standard majority of the frames, which Selby won. It was only the final session when Ronnie was trailing more that Selby made some sizeable breaks.... Be good if they can stamp out these underhand means of play as with all sports, ideal world yes no political, media or monetary influences to corrupt sports or where the winner always is the deserved one, who won by their on play rather than employing cheap tricks... Icing on cake are gracious losers too, cough Serena Williams.....
Shootout which I rarely have gotten to watch is the most fun format, definitely unique, everyother tournament is the same game just different prize money so nothing special... Also is a nice change to the typical silence of snooker.


I am quite sure Selby like players will be history within a generation or two, there's aren't many top players that play poor anymore for a reason as much as I disliked Hendry at the top though he's a great commentator he did pave the way for faster, aggressive snooker being the norm....

By the way I boycotted 2017's finals as it featured 2 of my least liked extant players ergh, Selby's grind (Sad Cliff Thorburn's called the grinder, Selby very much can have that nick!) vs John Higgins dull albeit clinical playstyle (Doesn't help how out of shape he is, he's SO ungainly moving around the table, utter contrast to how Ronnie flies around like a... rocket. If Ronnie's the Rocket, John is the truck), good choice too heard it broke the record for latest final finish It was interesting actually Selby said on Eurosport he concurs the format should be trimmed, he clearly with his frustrating playstyle is well suited to longer format matches as is Higgins (Ronnie remarked is odd Higgins hasn't won more world titles as he's a good fit for long matches), crazy how long snooker matches were in the past, albeit far less pro players then but needing 20 or even 30+ frames to win a match and with how the tables and balls were then leading to far fewer 1 table visit frames, take it they had beds set up in the matchrooms hehe....

Wildey wrote:Jesus Snookerfan did you have to quote it lol