This whole thing about Hearn punishing people with high AST

Go back 30 years and proberbly only a handfull of players would have avarage 25seconds or less and a hell of a lot more would be over 30.


Snooker has never been played quicker than it is today sometime to the detramant of quality by some players because they not playing their natrual game.

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:For example, what’s the difference between slowing play down in snooker and dummying a punch in boxing?

Explain what you mean by dummying a punch?

I would like to know this as well. As a boxing fan, I’ve not heard that before.

Ha. I may have made that term up. I was thinking of the expression 'dummies and feints'* which after a google I find out comes from football 'a dummy or feint is a player deceiving the opposition into believing he is going to pass, shoot, move in a certain direction, or receive the ball and instead doing something entirely different, thus gaining an advantage.'

So by dummy punch I meant pretending to punch one way then changing it and catching the opponent out. Perhaps boxing wasn't a great example. In Formula 1 you get drivers blocking other drivers so they can't over take them to help their team mate who is out of front. In football / cricket you get sledging. You are just trying to psyche the opponent(s) out, seize a tiny advantage, If you can get in someone's head, they are bucked. As soon as the anger / chimp chatter starts you lose focus and your standard drops.

Iranu, if someone is obviously slowing down their play in order to attempt to break their opponent's rhythm (and also playing on for snookers when it's pointless is another example of this) then yes it's going to get in your head and affect your play. The chimp chatter would be off the scale. Look what happened to Ronnie during that Ebdon debacle. Sure, he's better at dealing with this now, but Carter was doing it to him at this year's Worlds and he lost.

It's not just slowing down play. Remember when Ronnie beat Judd in the 2013 World's in the semis. He went two frames ahead towards the end and he was in the ascendancy. As they resumed to play the final couple of frames Ronnie re-entered the arena and looked directly at Judd as if to say 'Got you now. And you know it' - pure gamesmanship.

Hey, I have other examples that don't involve Ronnie hehe

My point was you can't remove gamesmanship from sports. It's part of it. Arguably, sports are more interesting because of it.


*We use this expression in DJing too. I love it. I sometimes pretend there's something wrong with the sound system or mixer. For example on Saturday I played on this huge stage at Boomtown festival near Winchester. About 4 tunes into my set, I had the crowd locked in and I slowly faded down the song playing until about halfway, and then even further. People in the crowd started to signal me, pointing upwards as if to say 'turn it up' I turned it down further, leaned over the booth and shouted 'what's up?' and cupped my ears as if I was straining to hear them. I kept this up for about 30 seconds and the crowd started to look restless. And then... slam! Ramped it back up to full blast, full bass and a huge cheer. Ahhh ... cheap tricks

The one time in recent times that someone got warned for slow play it was McGill, and the poor ref got lambasted for it. Hardly encourages other refs to take the same stand.

SnookerFan wrote:

Thanks for clearing that up, Dan.

SnookerFan wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=anthony+mcgill+slow+play+warning

WELL EXCUSE ME FOR ASKING!

It was Marcel Eckhart who did it. Good for him!

Remember when Ronnie moaned that he was too slow replacing balls and always in his line of sight?

As I recall he did troll that entire comp though.

I don't get the boxing example at all. It has nothing to do with time wasting.

Holden Chinaski wrote:I don't get the boxing example at all. It has nothing to do with time wasting.

Deliberate slow play is gamesmanship. In boxing, they have gamesmanship.

My point was that gamesmanship is in every sport and is part of the entertainment. Admittedly, deliberate slow play in snooker is not particularly exciting but seeing a player implode as a result can be.

The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

Holden Chinaski wrote:The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

It's true. I love the calling-fouls-on-yourself thing in snooker. That doesn't mean that some players don't employ gamesmanship though

Iranu wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

I don't see how this list will help to expose and punish deliberate slow play, though. The times are over a tournament aren't they? So the normal time will counteract the occasional slow play in the odd match and bring the average down.

They'd be better off analysing each match a player plays in, and looking for discrepancies that are larger than e.g 5 seconds between one match and the next. That would better show up deliberate slow play.

I also don't think that 30 seconds a shot is an unreasonable average, personally.

Agreed it's a separate issue that needs to be reff'ed more closely.

SnookerFan wrote:Can we talk more about Dan's boxing example?

I feel it needs further analysis.

Boxers hug each other which wastes time.

Holden Chinaski wrote:The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

And you was a Alex Higgins fan.


Gentmanly and Alex never went together did it

Dan-cat wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

It's true. I love the calling-fouls-on-yourself thing in snooker. That doesn't mean that some players don't employ gamesmanship though

Ronnie with a towel on his head was gamesmanship and there have been many ocations over the years where Ronnie has used gamesmanship or intimidation.

Wildey wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

And you was a Alex Higgins fan.


Gentmanly and Alex never went together did it

No, and I never liked that part of his personality. I like the way he played snooker but his behaviour was terrible.

Wildey wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:The problem is, I see snooker as a gentlemans game. For example in other sports like football, when a player makes a foul they don't admit it. In snooker that's not respected. I see deliberate time wasting as ungentalmanly behaviour.

It's true. I love the calling-fouls-on-yourself thing in snooker. That doesn't mean that some players don't employ gamesmanship though

Ronnie with a towel on his head was gamesmanship and there have been many ocations over the years where Ronnie has used gamesmanship or intimidation.

I certainly didn't like it when Ronnie had that towel on his head, but I think it's more Ronnie having a breakdown than him trying to intimidate. He lost that match. All he was doing was basically saying "look, you can beat me, I'm having a nervous breakdown".

If I was playing Ronnie, I would love to see him with a towel on his head. I might have a chance to beat him. It's when he's acting normal when he's dangerous.

If Ronnie had a towel on his head while at the table, I think I could beat him.

If deliberate slow play is acceptable, does this mean it's also acceptable to go on toilet breaks just to annoy your opponent? Is it acceptable to rattle the ice in your glass to distract your opponent? Is it accepable to move when you're in the eyeline of your opponent when he's down on a shot? Is it acceptable to cough when your opponent is about to cue?

I would love to see snooker without all these things. It's not football.

Dan-cat wrote:If Ronnie had a towel on his head while at the table, I think I could beat him.

Indeed.

Holden Chinaski wrote:If deliberate slow play is acceptable, does this mean it's also acceptable to go on toilet breaks just to annoy your opponent? Is it acceptable to rattle the ice in your glass to distract your opponent? Is it accepable to move when you're in the eyeline of your opponent when he's down on a shot? Is it acceptable to cough when your opponent is about to cue?

I would love to see snooker without all these things. It's not football.

Gamesmanship will always be a part of sport.

Slow play can be policed (if the refs are encouraged to do so) - the others can't very easily

Holden Chinaski wrote:If deliberate slow play is acceptable, does this mean it's also acceptable to go on toilet breaks just to annoy your opponent? Is it acceptable to rattle the ice in your glass to distract your opponent? Is it accepable to move when you're in the eyeline of your opponent when he's down on a shot? Is it acceptable to cough when your opponent is about to cue?

I would love to see snooker without all these things. It's not football.

Rattling ice in a glass is not gamesmanship or phsycological warefare thats just trying to put a player off while its their shot.

Deliberate slow play is using your own turn to a advantage again having a long snake hiss is not the same thing i cant imagine they play with snooker balls in the bog.

Wildey wrote:

Holden Chinaski wrote:If deliberate slow play is acceptable, does this mean it's also acceptable to go on toilet breaks just to annoy your opponent? Is it acceptable to rattle the ice in your glass to distract your opponent? Is it accepable to move when you're in the eyeline of your opponent when he's down on a shot? Is it acceptable to cough when your opponent is about to cue?

I would love to see snooker without all these things. It's not football.

Rattling ice in a glass is not gamesmanship or phsycological warefare thats just trying to put a player off while its their shot.

Deliberate slow play is using your own turn to a advantage again having a long snake hiss is not the same thing i cant imagine they play with snooker balls in the bog.

Rattling your your ice is gamesmanship.