This whole thing about Hearn punishing people with high AST

(AST = Average Shot Time.)

What's your opinion? Good idea? Bad?

SnookerFan wrote:(AST = Average Shot Time.)

What's your opinion? Good idea? Bad?

Absolute marmite.

Look how many players goes above 30 only about 7 is it really worth the bother theres 9 averaging less than 19.


Slow play is not a problem in todays game and yet a few morons making a mountain out of a mole hill

Good stats.

Pointless

Wildey wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:(AST = Average Shot Time.)

What's your opinion? Good idea? Bad?

Absolute marmite.

Look how many players goes above 30 only about 7 is it really worth the bother theres 9 averaging less than 19.


Slow play is not a problem in todays game and yet a few morons making a mountain out of a mole hill

Slow play is not the problem. Deliberate slow play is.

Too many use it as a weapon, unfortunately. Prime example being Selby. It needs to be stamped out, and maybe shaming them by publishing their AST is one small way of doing that.

Cloud Strife wrote:

Wildey wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:(AST = Average Shot Time.)

What's your opinion? Good idea? Bad?

Absolute marmite.

Look how many players goes above 30 only about 7 is it really worth the bother theres 9 averaging less than 19.


Slow play is not a problem in todays game and yet a few morons making a mountain out of a mole hill

Slow play is not the problem. Deliberate slow play is.

Too many use it as a weapon, unfortunately. Prime example being Selby. It needs to be stamped out, and maybe shaming them by publishing their AST is one small way of doing that.

I'm sure Selbo will give a damn

Pink Ball wrote:

Cloud Strife wrote:

Wildey wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:(AST = Average Shot Time.)

What's your opinion? Good idea? Bad?

Absolute marmite.

Look how many players goes above 30 only about 7 is it really worth the bother theres 9 averaging less than 19.


Slow play is not a problem in todays game and yet a few morons making a mountain out of a mole hill

Slow play is not the problem. Deliberate slow play is.

Too many use it as a weapon, unfortunately. Prime example being Selby. It needs to be stamped out, and maybe shaming them by publishing their AST is one small way of doing that.

I'm sure Selbo will give a damn

He won’t, he’s very thick-skinned.

One of his biggest strengths is doesn’t give a rubbish what anyone thinks of him. That includes his own mother and close relatives.

Does he care what The Lovely Vikki thinks?

Only deluded ROS fanboys say Selby is slow. It was just sour grapes used whenever Selby gave ROS a beating or won a tournament.

Cloud Strife wrote:

Wildey wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:(AST = Average Shot Time.)

What's your opinion? Good idea? Bad?

Absolute marmite.

Look how many players goes above 30 only about 7 is it really worth the bother theres 9 averaging less than 19.


Slow play is not a problem in todays game and yet a few morons making a mountain out of a mole hill

Slow play is not the problem. Deliberate slow play is.

Too many use it as a weapon, unfortunately. Prime example being Selby. It needs to be stamped out, and maybe shaming them by publishing their AST is one small way of doing that.

snooker throws up challenges and tactics that's a tactic even Alex Higgins used at times if players can't deal with it then they should look for another job

I don't think time wasting is tolerated in any sport. Apart from not being entertaining for viewers it also isn't really a clever tactic, there's no skill in it at all. Everyone could take 1 minute for each shot, it doesn't make Selby special.

kolompar wrote:I don't think time wasting is tolerated in any sport. Apart from not being entertaining for viewers it also isn't really a clever tactic, there's no skill in it at all. Everyone could take 1 minute for each shot, it doesn't make Selby special.

To start with define entertainment some really enjoy Rugby i think its boring as hell and not very entertaining on the flip side i love watching players trying to slow down others sometime it works other time it doesent but its entertaining for me watching them try.

Wildey wrote:

kolompar wrote:I don't think time wasting is tolerated in any sport. Apart from not being entertaining for viewers it also isn't really a clever tactic, there's no skill in it at all. Everyone could take 1 minute for each shot, it doesn't make Selby special.

To start with define entertainment some really enjoy Rugby i think its boring as hell and not very entertaining on the flip side i love watching players trying to slow down others sometime it works other time it doesent but its entertaining for me watching them try.

It's stupid doing it on purpose though.

If you are snookered and in a difficult position, if you take longer than you would normally then thats fine.

But sometimes players are left with simple options and still do it on purpose.

Look at that Ebdon v ROS match in 2005... yes you can say ROS should have dealt with it better, but being done on purpose shouldnt be allowed and if referees are too afraid to warn a player for it (I only ever saw a ref warning a player once in my entire life watching snooker, and it was Marcel) or simply dont want to, then that AST list is good to revive the memory of some of the slower players on tour.

I have no probs with it. Many others sports out there have other countless stats for viewers to analyse, Snooker doesnt even come close to the stats they provide so a stat like this shouldn't harm anyone.

I think players should get warned for deliberate slow play when on easy shots. If the balls are not in a difficult position and you keep walking around the table acting like you're not sure what to do just to annoy your opponent.. That's cheating in my opinion. If you need to do things like that to win, you'rejust not good enough. It's not good for the game. Time wasting is not allowed in most sports.

Wildey wrote:

kolompar wrote:I don't think time wasting is tolerated in any sport. Apart from not being entertaining for viewers it also isn't really a clever tactic, there's no skill in it at all. Everyone could take 1 minute for each shot, it doesn't make Selby special.

To start with define entertainment some really enjoy Rugby i think its boring as hell and not very entertaining on the flip side i love watching players trying to slow down others sometime it works other time it doesent but its entertaining for me watching them try.

No sane person enjoys watching that rubbish. You do, but you’re a bloody weirdo.

Cloud Strife wrote:

Wildey wrote:

kolompar wrote:I don't think time wasting is tolerated in any sport. Apart from not being entertaining for viewers it also isn't really a clever tactic, there's no skill in it at all. Everyone could take 1 minute for each shot, it doesn't make Selby special.

To start with define entertainment some really enjoy Rugby i think its boring as hell and not very entertaining on the flip side i love watching players trying to slow down others sometime it works other time it doesent but its entertaining for me watching them try.

No sane person enjoys watching that rubbish. You do, but you’re a bloody weirdo.

Oh, just ask him out.

Andre147 wrote:

Wildey wrote:

kolompar wrote:I don't think time wasting is tolerated in any sport. Apart from not being entertaining for viewers it also isn't really a clever tactic, there's no skill in it at all. Everyone could take 1 minute for each shot, it doesn't make Selby special.

To start with define entertainment some really enjoy Rugby i think its boring as hell and not very entertaining on the flip side i love watching players trying to slow down others sometime it works other time it doesent but its entertaining for me watching them try.

It's stupid doing it on purpose though.

If you are snookered and in a difficult position, if you take longer than you would normally then thats fine.

But sometimes players are left with simple options and still do it on purpose.

Look at that Ebdon v ROS match in 2005... yes you can say ROS should have dealt with it better, but being done on purpose shouldnt be allowed and if referees are too afraid to warn a player for it (I only ever saw a ref warning a player once in my entire life watching snooker, and it was Marcel) or simply dont want to, then that AST list is good to revive the memory of some of the slower players on tour.

I have no probs with it. Many others sports out there have other countless stats for viewers to analyse, Snooker doesnt even come close to the stats they provide so a stat like this shouldn't harm anyone.

Why?

its been done for donkeys and far more often in years gone by


Ray Reardon won tournaments in his later life because he did it. Gamesmanship is part of Sport always has been and always will be why should snooker be different?

Rules have often been changed to combat gamesmanship.

Pink Ball wrote:Rules have often been changed to combat gamesmanship.

And deliberate slow play is no different.

Only Wild seems to enjoy it. Doesn't surprise me.

Andre147 wrote:

Pink Ball wrote:Rules have often been changed to combat gamesmanship.

And deliberate slow play is no different.

Only Wild seems to enjoy it. Doesn't surprise me.

It's a pile of rubbish. I love seeing a fella putting a proper game plan in motion. Deliberate slow play is a load of bottom.

Always a good idea to punish the professional sportspersons.

But he shouldn´t had started to promote the game without any borders. But that´s just an opinion.

All this is a fantasy picking, you really should give me that. Only the two sides and opinions to pick from; either you consider and regard yourself to be on a winners side (a massive amount of people), or to be on a receiving end. But there´s no flaw in it; that´s how we all have grown up as a kids to analyse the different people and the world. That man has a suitcase and a nice suit, he must be a winner and rule the world and to create the laws. Yep yep, that´s how it always is.

Any given top sportsman or a women couldn´t give a cr@p if you are not interested about him or her. All they have started to motor at the first place to be something "really unique" and "special". So that´s how they still regard themselves.

And that´s why I found it rather strange to promote all these different sports. Those top dogs couldn´t be hissed about any publicity or recognisitions. The money perhaps they can be. So that´s why I also do understand Barry Hearn a bit. That´s why, and then all this could be a good tips and hints from Barry, and that´s really kind from him if that´s the case. Accidentally or not.

But overally, I have now started to lose my patience all these sports available to watch from the telly. I participate a LOT, but couldn´t less care to watch some Mickey Mouse sports and events. I can handle it me particiapting a lot, but that´s a hard´s man job. Always has been, always will be. All those far-easterns and the Chinese sends those groups of people to participate, to analyse and eventually to lay some bets. No matter what sport or an event it is or might be. But pointless to root them or starting to promote these and those sports. They just are what they are. Just wanting to fastly to run their lives through and then to be part of the nature. That´s their taking and can´t do much than accept. But nothing to do with anything I do or to participate.

This is probably last time I ever write anything about the sports. Still a good option not to participate but I am also a bit like those far-easterns.

The world also is full of Ronnie O´Sullivan´s to making 147s in Cairo and sharing that footage. Ronnie O´Sullivan nro 14 943 sporting now this and that and sharing it. How many footages there are already available. Quite many but I don´t care. All they are doing is to make what they can do and realistically sharing it as they just possible can. There´s nothing wrong with it, that´s how and what the Holy Book also suggest us to do. No free tickets, no lazy people around, NO HIDING HAVENS (see see, the Swiss citizen...), so no chickening outs. Just fire, fire and fire. See, someone like Mark Williams or David Gilbert is a much better to root for than Ronnie. They are strong characters and the media loves them. They have their flaws but it doesn´t matter as long as the coverage and the time tables are steady and strong. And there won´t be any Mark Williamses making a 147s in Cairo and sharing it. Or there might be, but then the people have missunderstand something.

The real and actual Ronnie don´t have time to listen to anyone. He always has so many options to continue from that the real problem or the question just won´t get any attention. From him. And that´s a bit of problem if they really wanted to have HIM to answer or to analyse it. Just too many options to continue from and too little time.

Precisely.

Holden Chinaski wrote:I think players should get warned for deliberate slow play when on easy shots. If the balls are not in a difficult position and you keep walking around the table acting like you're not sure what to do just to annoy your opponent.. That's cheating in my opinion. If you need to do things like that to win, you'rejust not good enough. It's not good for the game. Time wasting is not allowed in most sports.

+1

However, gamesmanship is very much a part of sport.

For example, what’s the difference between slowing play down in snooker and dummying a punch in boxing?

Dan-cat wrote:For example, what’s the difference between slowing play down in snooker and dummying a punch in boxing?

Explain what you mean by dummying a punch?

SnookerFan wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:For example, what’s the difference between slowing play down in snooker and dummying a punch in boxing?

Explain what you mean by dummying a punch?

I would like to know this as well. As a boxing fan, I’ve not heard that before.

Cloud Strife wrote:

SnookerFan wrote:

Dan-cat wrote:For example, what’s the difference between slowing play down in snooker and dummying a punch in boxing?

Explain what you mean by dummying a punch?

I would like to know this as well. As a boxing fan, I’ve not heard that before.

I googled it first, just to make sure it wasn't me being stupid.

Still none the wiser.

can't say it bothers me too much. You can get good slow players sometimes and it can be just as interesting to watch.

Yes you get some boring slow players who analyse every shot even when the ball is over the pocket and take 12 minutes to pot 3 balls (Peter Ebdon). That is what should be stopped and that is the discretion of the referee

The AST is monitored over a full tournament, right?

I'm not sure how that punishes deliberate slow play, as surely that would rear its head in short bursts and the average would be pulled down by the normal shot times? It would only punish naturally slow players which isn't really fair.

I have to say I've never really understood the problem with slow play from a player's perspective anyway. Does it really make a difference whether your opponent takes 5 minutes or 15 minutes to make a frame-winning break? And if it's on safety shots or only a couple of pots, it makes even less difference. I've never fully understood why it would disrupt your own rhythm to that extent.

I think it's psychological ("oh god he's taking ages, this is gonna disrupt my rhythm" and lo-and-behold, because you think it, it happens) more than a physical disruption, which isn't really your opponent's problem.

(Extreme examples like the notorious Ebdon-Ronnie game obviously makes sense, but generally I think it's made more of an issue than it should be)