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Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby SnookerFan

I'm of the opinion that Ken Doherty (and Jimmy) dropped off the tour, so end of. I don't agree with Tour Wildcards. If you drop off the tour, you shouldn't just be allowed back on just because you're a popular name. Hearn blathers on about refusing to reward mediocrity, and then rewarded Jimmy and Ken's mediocrity by allowing them back without having to qualify or even do anything.

Saying that, Ken has been playing well in the early stages of this season. A few on Twitter I've seen have suggested that Ken's decent form justifies the Wild Card decision.

Personally, I'm not sure I agree. He dropped off the tour, you can't be saved from that when others have to earn their way back on, just because World Snooker / fans like you. They didn't know how he was going to play this season, that's not why he was awarded it.

Discuss.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby daraghj82

yeah I agree I like that the older players, greats such as jimmy, ken etc. can still compete if they wish on the tour. I presume Hendry has this wild card if he were to come back ?

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby SnookerFan

daraghj82 wrote:yeah I agree I like that the older players, greats such as jimmy, ken etc. can still compete if they wish on the tour. I presume Hendry has this wild card if he were to come back ?


I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't compete on the tour. Just that they shouldn't get wildcards if they drop off. They should earn their place.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby SnookerFan

Badsnookerplayer wrote:You need some legends in it though. It is highly unlikely that any of Ken, Jimmy etc would attempt Q-school let alone get through it. It is unfair, but I think the game is more interesting because of it.

Wildcard for Reardon!


Wildcard for Bill Werbeniuk. <ok>

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby Badsnookerplayer

:rip:
SnookerFan wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:You need some legends in it though. It is highly unlikely that any of Ken, Jimmy etc would attempt Q-school let alone get through it. It is unfair, but I think the game is more interesting because of it.

Wildcard for Reardon!


Wildcard for Bill Werbeniuk. <ok>

:rip:

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby Badsnookerplayer

No problem. Bill was a hero of mine and cruelly treated by the snooker powers at the time but I like to think he would have smiled at your post. I would have loved to have met Bill as he was - as Dennis might say - a real 'character' and a guy who travelled his own path and lived life to the full despite challenges that were thrown at him.

Amazed me that he never got done for DUI with his bus.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby TheSaviour

It´s not that much difficult to write it in a way it is covered.. If he plays correct he plays correct, no matter what people think about his current state of mind. They just think he plays correct and all-right. No matter how well it would had been covered or if they have some doubts about his current state of a mind.

The only thing required from all the players on the tour is being an active. Because there is such a money-issues, so being an active makes it all good. Shows that they mean a business and think in a way they should be thinking. Perhaps they just haven´t thought it that way? Being an active also means that they do participate and are fond to travel. Otherwise it is just not possible to tell if they are trying their best or not.

Ye ye ye. It is just an issue if it is his or not.... Nothing more serious. Obviously everyone can be a fan. Just a slender thought that is THIS REALLY MINE OR NOT.. No offence taken if it wouldn´t be. But people are always going to strike back and defence their own positions. It is always a relatively easy to get Ken´s number if he is overdoing it. He should play with lose and relaxed hands.

A many (if not all) of these fans thinking Ken´s some sort of a superhero are just drunk and annoyed americans. Ken´s just crazy. He was born that way. He can´t savour the game from having all sorts of different fan-bases and an active and rapid pecking order-swifts. Most of the fans just reacts quickly. Whether it is about what they think about Ken or just something else. Ken just need to digest it all whatever it whenever it is. But that also creates some unorthodox and heavy prospects. IF he can digest it all.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby SnookerFan

Badsnookerplayer wrote:One of my friends is a regularly drunk American and he is a huge Ken fan. He only gets annoyed when I mention Ken's missed black ball.


Snooker seems an unsual sport for an American to enjoy.

Still, we got our old friend Gridlock here too, so I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby Alex0paul

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:Doherty will be back in the 16 in no time

Do you mean that or are you being humorous? I am not sure.


I feel the same when you talk about Mark Davis being a title contender each tournament

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby Badsnookerplayer

Alex0paul wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:Doherty will be back in the 16 in no time

Do you mean that or are you being humorous? I am not sure.


I feel the same when you talk about Mark Davis being a title contender each tournament

Fair play - I wasn't sure if you were serious that was all. I always like your posts. The thing is I always hope (against hope I suppose) that Mark will crack it at some point.
Really meant no disrespect. Best wishes.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby Alex0paul

Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:
Badsnookerplayer wrote:
Alex0paul wrote:Doherty will be back in the 16 in no time

Do you mean that or are you being humorous? I am not sure.


I feel the same when you talk about Mark Davis being a title contender each tournament

Fair play - I wasn't sure if you were serious that was all. I always like your posts. The thing is I always hope (against hope I suppose) that Mark will crack it at some point.
Really meant no disrespect. Best wishes.


Im only having a laugh

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby PLtheRef

Finally able to post in this - been trying to do it from my phone whilst I've been away - kept logging out.

It could be argued that an excellent start to Doherty's season provides justification of the decision to award a wildcard. - It's certainly better than Doherty coming back, thanks to some good fortune and then getting beat 4-0, 4-1, 5-0 etc in each of his first round matches.

That mentioned however, I agree with those who make references to Hearn's many comments about players needing to be good enough. When you see players relegated from the tour getting wild-cards to return immediately then it does leave Hearn's words feeling a little hollow - even if neither of the wild-cards were massive surprises. Doherty deserves credit for his great start to the season, but some of the adulation seems to be a bit overblown e.g. comparisons made to Rod Lawler's recent success after his relegation (given Lawler had to earn his place back on tour)

The problem with issuing wild-cards is that it will inevitably cause some annoyance among some of the other players who may not be so fortunate. Hearn seems to be caught in a situation where whilst he is trying to maintain the development of snooker in the public eye back towards anything like the zenith of its consciousness with the public, he is also trying to keep it as a brand of entertainment. Personally, I think that entertainment should come from good sport and not the allocation or admission to what is a members tour and not a 'totally' open one.

In the Premier League, you wouldn't expect the league to expand to 21 clubs because a majorly successful side had been relegated at the end of a season. So why should a successful player be granted a second chance because of a number of former glories. - on the other hand, Goran Ivanisevic – in the Autumn of his career received a Wildcard for Wimbledon in 2001 – and went on to win the event completely justifying the Wild-card (Albeit in a sport where they are much more common than snooker)


Some questions to ponder

How do you justify a wild-card selection? If Wild-cards are supposed to help the development of a newcomer or to expand the game does the allocation's of wildcards to players aged 47 and 55 respectively both of whom come from countries with established snooker backgrounds meet those?

Do you create criteria for consideration of a wild-card? Do you offer them to former World Champions (which in itself rules out the likes of Jimmy White) – Do you offer them to Triple Crown event winners? (Which generates a number of eligible candidates). How would Player A receiving a wild-card be justified over Player B?

Does the very nature of having criteria for wild-cards diminish the actual point of having a wild-card.

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby SnookerFan

PLtheRef wrote:Finally able to post in this - been trying to do it from my phone whilst I've been away - kept logging out.

It could be argued that an excellent start to Doherty's season provides justification of the decision to award a wildcard. - It's certainly better than Doherty coming back, thanks to some good fortune and then getting beat 4-0, 4-1, 5-0 etc in each of his first round matches.

That mentioned however, I agree with those who make references to Hearn's many comments about players needing to be good enough. When you see players relegated from the tour getting wild-cards to return immediately then it does leave Hearn's words feeling a little hollow - even if neither of the wild-cards were massive surprises. Doherty deserves credit for his great start to the season, but some of the adulation seems to be a bit overblown e.g. comparisons made to Rod Lawler's recent success after his relegation (given Lawler had to earn his place back on tour)

The problem with issuing wild-cards is that it will inevitably cause some annoyance among some of the other players who may not be so fortunate. Hearn seems to be caught in a situation where whilst he is trying to maintain the development of snooker in the public eye back towards anything like the zenith of its consciousness with the public, he is also trying to keep it as a brand of entertainment. Personally, I think that entertainment should come from good sport and not the allocation or admission to what is a members tour and not a 'totally' open one.

In the Premier League, you wouldn't expect the league to expand to 21 clubs because a majorly successful side had been relegated at the end of a season. So why should a successful player be granted a second chance because of a number of former glories. - on the other hand, Goran Ivanisevic – in the Autumn of his career received a Wildcard for Wimbledon in 2001 – and went on to win the event completely justifying the Wild-card (Albeit in a sport where they are much more common than snooker)


Some questions to ponder

How do you justify a wild-card selection? If Wild-cards are supposed to help the development of a newcomer or to expand the game does the allocation's of wildcards to players aged 47 and 55 respectively both of whom come from countries with established snooker backgrounds meet those?

Do you create criteria for consideration of a wild-card? Do you offer them to former World Champions (which in itself rules out the likes of Jimmy White) – Do you offer them to Triple Crown event winners? (Which generates a number of eligible candidates). How would Player A receiving a wild-card be justified over Player B?

Does the very nature of having criteria for wild-cards diminish the actual point of having a wild-card.


:goodpost:

Re: Does Ken Doherty's recent form justify his wildcard?

Postby gallantrabbit

I think Ken took his eye off the ball the last few years so good to see he's taking advantage of his chance big time.
Personally I think all ex-world champs should be given wild cards for as long as they want. It's good for the game around the world. If Jimmy, for example can't put 30 together one day, he'll know and he'll walk away.
OK Jimmy ain't a WC, but he's Jimmy. He, Higgins and Ronnie have put more bums on seats than the rest combined so fair do's.