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World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

TWITTER ATTACK!

Barry Hearn‏ @BarryHearn
@WorldSnooker1 To organise a vote for all 128 world tour players to decide should Shootout stay a ranking event or be removed from calendar

Good start, but in my opinion it's trickery from Hearn.

The best way to address this would be; "Should this be a ranking event or not?" Hearn is asking; "Should this exist or not?"

Some players will be tempted to vote for it to stay, because of the money making opportunities. This doesn't mean they think it should be a ranking event. If this gets a majority of stay votes, Hearn will claim it prvoes the ranking event was a good idea. It doesn't. It's all smoke and mirrors.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

sas6789 wrote:It should be on the calendar just not a ranking event.


Hearn is citing "commercial reasons" for the Shoot Out needing to be a ranking event.

That might just be him justifying the decision to make it a ranking event in the first place. But assuming it isn't that, it may confirm a slight suspicion I've had for a while now that it's ITV 4 that want the Shoot Out to be a ranking event.

It was never a ranking event on Sky, but second year on ITV 4 it is. The Grand Prix became ranking too.

We all know that ITV asks for tournaments to be structured around their television schedules. What if they have decided they have too many exhibition events, and not enough ranking events? Think it sounds a bit more prestigious, that sort of thing. Maybe they've threatened to pull the plug some of the stuff they show isn't ranking?

Just a theory.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

And funnily enough, soon after I post that, it seems Hearn is saying the same thing on Twitter. After a year's worth of telling people to get a life, and trying to make out this is a worthy addition to the ranking event calendar, it's actually ITV 4 insisting that it's either a ranking event or they don't want it.

They want their tournaments to have prestige, I guess.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby The Herminator

I think it's more the case that ranking points means more likelihood of getting the big names which means more lucrative advertising space for ITV. By making the shoot out a ranker it didn't give the tournament more prestige it just took prestige away from the ranking system. It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out for the future of snooker on ITV.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

The Herminator wrote:I think it's more the case that ranking points means more likelihood of getting the big names which means more lucrative advertising space for ITV. By making the shoot out a ranker it didn't give the tournament more prestige it just took prestige away from the ranking system. It's going to be interesting to see how this pans out for the future of snooker on ITV.


Surely this 'vote' that Hearn is putting forward won't sort anything out.

With all the talk of how much snooker players struggle to earn money these days, they aren't going to get a majority voting for a money making opportunity to disappear. We've got to be realistic. Players like anybody else have bills to pay. The players with kids who they need to feed, clothe and get through school make not like the Shoot Out being a ranker, but it's not a moral stance they can afford to take.

This'll get a majority vote for 'keep it ranking', Hearn will gloat as if it has proven something. Then nothing will change.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby gallantrabbit

If I were a player I'd be inclined to say, ok F### it, Hearn has got so much right and the shootout is an opportunity to get a form of snooker on a different TV channel. So let the stubborn ol git have his way and be the warlord. When all is said and done McGill must be peeing himself winning 32k for 7 frames. Haven't Mark Allen and co ben crying out for more opportunities for the fringe players? Here is very definitely one.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby PLtheRef

I don't buy that the changes made to the Shootout we're only made as Hearn bending over to the express wish of ITV. If it is then its odd that someone who is such a good negotiator as Barry Hearn could be shoved around so easily.

There's little need or call for this to be a ranking event - and it seems like this one or the other option is more about trying to keep it - if the option to keep it but make it non ranking had been there then the vote would have been for that.

That said, I wonder if this is a binding vote. If the players vote to keep it then it'll be lauded as a success. If the vote is to remove it then we might see an executive decision from Hearn to keep it "in the interest of the game"

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby Wildey

PLtheRef wrote:I don't buy that the changes made to the Shootout we're only made as Hearn bending over to the express wish of ITV. If it is then its odd that someone who is such a good negotiator as Barry Hearn could be shoved around so easily.

There's little need or call for this to be a ranking event - and it seems like this one or the other option is more about trying to keep it - if the option to keep it but make it non ranking had been there then the vote would have been for that.

That said, I wonder if this is a binding vote. If the players vote to keep it then it'll be lauded as a success. If the vote is to remove it then we might see an executive decision from Hearn to keep it "in the interest of the game"

spot on


its blackmail players wont vote to scrap it so hearn will be sending tweets saying he wins again


hes treating everyone like fools.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

Undecided on whether this ITV 4 thing is true or not.

It crossed my mind last week when the tournament was on, that it's something that ITV 4 might have asked for. Especially being that the World Grand Prix also became a ranking event. Also, bear in mind, this was never a ranking event on Sky Sports. (Who dropped it, and it then became a ranker after only one showing on ITV 4.) If it's not something ITV wanted, the timing seemed coincidental.

Saying that, Hearn has been gloating about what a great idea the Shoot Out ranking event is since May when it was announced. He's been telling us that people who are against it are in the minority. He's told us that TV companies and sponsors are behind the idea. He even told people who were against the decision to 'get a life' last week. Even if ITV were keen on this idea, it doesn't seem that Hearn did too much to quash it. He's been revelling in the attention that this bad idea has brought him for too long.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

Though, saying that, no matter who made the decision, it says a lot about the Shoot Out that they feel the need to make it ranking to give it prestige.

Sky Sports dropped the coverage, now we hear they made it ranking because ITV thought it'd get better viewers as a ranking event. Wasn't this supposed to be the fun tournament that got casuals interested? If viewing figures are so bad they have to make it a ranking event to try and get more people watching then it's obviously not working that well.

Why are they bothering to ask the players what they think? Scrap the tournament, and create a new one with space in the calendar. Best of both worlds.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby The Herminator

I've got a new tournament. The "Snooker Shut Out". Players do not score any points for potting a ball and instead have to gain points by laying fiendish snookers and forcing the opponent to give away fouls. Players have to wear full evening dress and at walk- ons they are accompanied by their valets, with chamber music supplied by a string quartet. The game finishes when both players feel honour has been satisfied.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

The Herminator wrote:I've got a new tournament. The "Snooker Shut Out". Players do not score any points for potting a ball and instead have to gain points by laying fiendish snookers and forcing the opponent to give away fouls. Players have to wear full evening dress and at walk- ons they are accompanied by their valets, with chamber music supplied by a string quartet. The game finishes when both players feel honour has been satisfied.



rofl rofl

That'd still be more entertaining than the Shoot Out.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

Just for anybody who is interested, which is probably none of you, last week when all of this was going on I sent World Snooker the following e-mail;

"Hi there,

I've been a big fan of your snooker coverage on ITV 4 since you started covering the snooker at the Haikou World Open in 2012. Your commentary and analysis team are excellent. And are for the most part, better than the BBC. And you also show the end of the match, unlike the BBC who cut to repeats of 1970s sitcoms at vital parts of the match. You do a very good job.

Anyway, and I don't know if you know this, but there was a lot of controversy when the Snooker Shoot Out was announced as a ranking event last year. It's fine for a fun event, but it's inherently unfair to make a competition with non-snooker rules affect a player's snooker ranking. It makes a mockery of the sport. It would be like a game of pool or three-cushion billiards affect a snooker player's ranking position. It's very unfair, and has been panned by a lot of the players and fans alike. I've barely spoken to anybody who thinks it's a good idea that this travesty is a good idea. It should go back to being an invitational event.

Anyway, the reason I am moaning about this to you is that, after the last 12 months of Barry Hearn (CEO of World Snooker) taking a lot of flak for taking this decision, he seems to be now implying on Twitter that this decision was to please the channel showing the tournament. (Who he claims wanted their tournaments to have a bit of prestige, rather than just invitationals.)

I was wondering if you could confirm whether this had any truth to it. And if so urge/beg you to reconsider. The ShootOut having ranking points is literally the worst decision I have ever seen taken in any professional sport. And it would be a shame if a channel with such high quality snooker coverage is responsible for a decision that could almost ruin the sport.

I'd like to hear your input on this. It's important, as this controversy has lasted best part of a year, and the fans and players upset about it aren't going to suddenly forget about it. Is there no way that the Shoot Out can just go back to being the invitational event it was previously.

Many thanks for your time, "




Anyway, just now I got the following reply;

"Thank you for the kind words regarding our snooker coverage and your continued support.

As for the Shoot Out, we are all too aware of the reaction to World Snooker's decision to make the tournament a ranking event. We cannot comment on statements made on twitter, however we can assure you that we are continuing to look at the Shoot Out and how the game can best be served. The decision on whether to run the tournament as a ranking event or otherwise rests with World Snooker.

May I take this opportunity to thank you for taking the time to contact us here at ITV Viewer Services.

If you have any additional comments, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind regards, "




I guess that discounts any suggestion of Hearn's that the decision was ITVs and not his.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby SnookerFan

Barry Hearn, on Twitter. On being asked why the choice has to be between a ranking event, or the Shoot Out not existing at all...

Barry Hearn‏@BarryHearn Cos I understand the commercial world we live in. I am an expert , the best in the world. Trust me.

<doh>

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby PLtheRef

SnookerFan wrote:I think he is doing it tounge in cheek, to be honest.

Think he is revelling in people talking about snooker.


That's what in somecases worries me

Yes, it's good that the sport gets more interest and I'm all for that, but you start and wonder whether he feels literally anything that gets people talking about snooker is a good thing - e.g. O'Sullivan's pink to protest the 147, or the mix-up that cost David Gilbert at the Shootout - they've both got people talking about snooker

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby Andre147

PLtheRef wrote:
SnookerFan wrote:I think he is doing it tounge in cheek, to be honest.

Think he is revelling in people talking about snooker.


That's what in somecases worries me

Yes, it's good that the sport gets more interest and I'm all for that, but you start and wonder whether he feels literally anything that gets people talking about snooker is a good thing - e.g. O'Sullivan's pink to protest the 147, or the mix-up that cost David Gilbert at the Shootout - they've both got people talking about snooker


I agree, plus I also think this vote thing was rigged than being fully democratic.

Sure, it was democratic in the way it was up to the players, but between getting rid of this event altogether, well I like this event, just hate it being a ranker.

The Vote should have been: Shoot-Out a ranking event: Yes or No. Even if the Yes won, it certainly wouldn't win by such a huge margin.

By saying: Shoot.Out: On the calendar or not, of course most people prefer it to be on the calendar.

So Hearn made a nice trick here as he usually does.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby TheRocket

I think Hearn sees Snooker more as a product than a sport. And most people probably noticed he always keeps talking about the higher prize money he's brought in and using it as a killer argument when people criticize him.

It's the arrogance and narcissism of this man which made the second biggest tournament, the UK Championship a rubbish event.

I don't deny that Snooker is in a better state atm than it was lets say 10 years ago. So Hearn has done something right. Definitely. Even though you have to say it wasnt that difficult to make it better as it had been really that bad in the last years of the Walker era.

But I also bet that Hearn has neither respect nor any fascination for the sport Snooker at all.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby whitespider

What I'm interested to know is the actual audience figures of a Ranking status Shootout compared to the non ranking Shootout. You would also want to compare that to the audience figures for the World Grand Prix and Players Championship (both rankers) and the CoC (the non ranker).

If as a non ranker the Shootout is non viable and as a ranked tournament is still lags behind the WGP and PC then it's safe to say that the format will be dead and buried before too long.

If it's ratings are above the WGP and PC then I think it will be here to stay.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby Cheshire Cat

whitespider wrote:What I'm interested to know is the actual audience figures of a Ranking status Shootout compared to the non ranking Shootout. You would also want to compare that to the audience figures for the World Grand Prix and Players Championship (both rankers) and the CoC (the non ranker).

If as a non ranker the Shootout is non viable and as a ranked tournament is still lags behind the WGP and PC then it's safe to say that the format will be dead and buried before too long.

If it's ratings are above the WGP and PC then I think it will be here to stay.


Personally speaking last year was the first year I watched the shootout, and I watched the whole thing. This year I only watched the final day.

The novelty rubs off pretty quickly, especially the 'yellow' brigade, but that's just me.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby PLtheRef

whitespider wrote:What I'm interested to know is the actual audience figures of a Ranking status Shootout compared to the non ranking Shootout. You would also want to compare that to the audience figures for the World Grand Prix and Players Championship (both rankers) and the CoC (the non ranker).

If as a non ranker the Shootout is non viable and as a ranked tournament is still lags behind the WGP and PC then it's safe to say that the format will be dead and buried before too long.

If it's ratings are above the WGP and PC then I think it will be here to stay.


Harder to compare really other than last year because obviously people had to pay to view the event before it went to ITV.

Re: World Snooker to take vote on Shoot Out

Postby Pink Ball

SnookerFan wrote:
Pink Ball wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, democracy doesn't work.


Unfortunately it's the best altetnative.

Like buck it is. I'd rather leave decisions in the hand of one intelligent person (like me) than 128 (mostly) idiots.


   

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