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When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Pink Ball

I'm sick and tired of people saying the standard of snooker is so high these days. To be fair, most people in this forum have twigged that we're in the midst of a terrible era - but not everyone here has, and the BBC and the press hasn't.

Anthony Hamilton could win his first ranking title today at the age of 45. Hamilton was a very good player and I won't begrudge him in the slightest if he wins, because this dearth of talent isn't his fault - but it's depressing that someone whose peak years ended about 15 years ago is having one of his greatest seasons.

Same with Mark King. Mark Davis had his best years 15 years late. Stuart Binghan's been a top player for seven years now when he did nothing during what should have been his peak years.

The average age of the German Masters semi finalist was 39, and nobody batted an eyelid - 45 is the new 22 in snooker.

I wouldn't mind if it was just Higgins and Sullivan - they're exceptional players and were always capable of doing this. But it's not exceptional: it's being done by Mark Davis, Gould, King, Hamilton. Their dream of winning a world title has reappeared when it vanished first around 2005.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Holden Chinaski

The standard will probably never be of the same level it was from the late nineties into the early 2000's. We have been spoiled.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby eraserhead

Pink Ball wrote:
eraserhead wrote:We're in the fourth frame of a ranking event final and yet to see a 40 break.

There's been 14 centuries this week. FOURTEEN.

Hamilton just knocked in a 46 :happy:

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby LC

Totally agree, I posted earlier on the final comments, there are no young players doing anything, there is talented players out there but no one aged from 17-25 are getting to the later stages of tournaments, so there is massive opportunities for older players to win tournaments, there just isn't the interest from the younger generation in the game to sustain it, so many other sports and other interests to compete with.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Andre147

Fully agree with you Pinks, great post!

Like you rightly say, if this was only Higgins and Ronnie doing it, it would be allright, they are snooker freaks, true legends of the game and will keep the good standard for a few more years to come.

Problem is its being done by players who should have been doing this 20 or 15 years ago.

The standard from 1998-2005 will probably never be seen again. The standard from the top players then was the highest we've seen.

The overall Tour is stronger now than it was then, but not from the Top 32, and certainly not from the Top 16 and Top 10.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Cheshire Cat

It's why I think Mark Selby has every chance to completely and utterly dominate this game.

When the likes of Higgins, O'Sullivan etc finally put the cue down, where is the challenge? On their day, anyone can beat anyone, but really? Where's his 'rivals' supposed to be? I suppose Trump, Ding, Robbo are the main suspects, but Selby is so much better than them and everyone else in the game right now.

The passage of time cannot be escaped, but I honestly am going to miss the O'Sullivan v Higgins, O'Sullivan v Selby, MJW v Higgins, Higgins v Selby etc matchups. I can't think of any other match-ups right now that get me as excited as those ones did.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Andre147

The Ding v Selby matches and the Selby v Trump ones are always good, even if they end up one sided.

Selby v Robbo matches can sometimes end a bit dull, not all of their matches have been classics like their Worlds Semi.

Selby v Ronnie is by far the best we have atm, and probably one of the very best the Sport has even seen.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby eraserhead

Cheshire Cat wrote:It's why I think Mark Selby has every chance to completely and utterly dominate this game.

When the likes of Higgins, O'Sullivan etc finally put the cue down, where is the challenge? On their day, anyone can beat anyone, but really? Where's his 'rivals' supposed to be? I suppose Trump, Ding, Robbo are the main suspects, but Selby is so much better than them and everyone else in the game right now.

The passage of time cannot be escaped, but I honestly am going to miss the O'Sullivan v Higgins, O'Sullivan v Selby, MJW v Higgins, Higgins v Selby etc matchups. I can't think of any other match-ups right now that get me as excited as those ones did.

The only part I disagree on is that I think Selby's more consistent and can get through matches he should, rather than a dominate force.


I don't think Selby's a level above his generation but he does stick at it. I think Trump has missed quite a few opportunities to set himself apart, I also think he takes opponents to lightly 2015 world championship could have been his year.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Pink Ball

Cheshire Cat wrote:It's why I think Mark Selby has every chance to completely and utterly dominate this game.

When the likes of Higgins, O'Sullivan etc finally put the cue down, where is the challenge? On their day, anyone can beat anyone, but really? Where's his 'rivals' supposed to be? I suppose Trump, Ding, Robbo are the main suspects, but Selby is so much better than them and everyone else in the game right now.

The passage of time cannot be escaped, but I honestly am going to miss the O'Sullivan v Higgins, O'Sullivan v Selby, MJW v Higgins, Higgins v Selby etc matchups. I can't think of any other match-ups right now that get me as excited as those ones did.

These are the key words. Things can change and usually do.

Selby is an all-time great, but I also consider Ding and Robbo all-time greats - and with good reason,given that both are multiple major champions also, and actually have more ranking titles than Selby.

Selby has been the best of his generation in my opinion, but not by a mile.

He is my pick to win this year's world championship but I highly doubt we'll ever see him dominate the game like a Davis or Hendry. And the two of them could have dominated this era in their prime, cos it's similar in quality to their era.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby TheSaviour

I need to slightly disagree. It is an extremely strong era now. There are certains things which could be better. It is just that Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis were so tough that they are expecting all the other people also to be so tough. Which obviously isn´t the case at all. It is a same thing when I go to the Church; can´t get avoided of getting an impression that God was or is so tough and now it is expected that we should be so tough also. Which is as much of a far cry as it just possible gets. Statistically or how you just wan´t it. And the statistics never lies or to delude anyone. People are just different. There always can be and are various reasons why things are like they are.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby SnookerFan

TheSaviour wrote:I need to slightly disagree. It is an extremely strong era now. There are certains things which could be better. It is just that Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis were so tough that they are expecting all the other people also to be so tough. Which obviously isn´t the case at all. It is a same thing when I go to the Church; can´t get avoided of getting an impression that God was or is so tough and now it is expected that we should be so tough also. Which is as much of a far cry as it just possible gets. Statistically or how you just wan´t it. And the statistics never lies or to delude anyone. People are just different. There always can be and are various reasons why things are like they are.


That post started so well. I understood your first point, then you went off on one about your Sunday morning activities....

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Pink Ball

SnookerFan wrote:
TheSaviour wrote:I need to slightly disagree. It is an extremely strong era now. There are certains things which could be better. It is just that Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis were so tough that they are expecting all the other people also to be so tough. Which obviously isn´t the case at all. It is a same thing when I go to the Church; can´t get avoided of getting an impression that God was or is so tough and now it is expected that we should be so tough also. Which is as much of a far cry as it just possible gets. Statistically or how you just wan´t it. And the statistics never lies or to delude anyone. People are just different. There always can be and are various reasons why things are like they are.


That post started so well. I understood your first point, then you went off on one about your Sunday morning activities....

His post is great, you can actually pinpoint the exact moment the cocaine kicked in.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby sas6789

TheSaviour wrote:I need to slightly disagree. It is an extremely strong era now. There are certains things which could be better. It is just that Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis were so tough that they are expecting all the other people also to be so tough. Which obviously isn´t the case at all. It is a same thing when I go to the Church; can´t get avoided of getting an impression that God was or is so tough and now it is expected that we should be so tough also. Which is as much of a far cry as it just possible gets. Statistically or how you just wan´t it. And the statistics never lies or to delude anyone. People are just different. There always can be and are various reasons why things are like they are.

If it's such a strong era why are people like Anthony Hamilton and Mark King winning titles well into their 40's instead 10 or 15 years ago when they never did?

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Dan-cat

Pinkie moaning? It's not like you at all!

I might start counter positive threads to bring balance. Yin and yang.

The last few tournaments have been exciting as hell for me. The stories are ace currently. First time winners, Ronnie's still the king and yet his crown is delicately balanced, Selbo has been the Number Daddy for years despite everyone apart from Coland knowing he's not the best, Ali is still trying to get his a game back...

Standards schmantards.

Are you enjoying the sport currently?A simple yes or no will do.

I bucking am. Love it.

Go and watch some live mate. It will make you fall in love with it again <kisses>

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Cloud Strife

You make some very salient points, Dan.

Sometimes a lot of us fall into the trap of worrying too much about the future or pontificating over what happened in the past. It's always one or other.

I say let's stop and take a moment to enjoy the present. Last night was one of the most heart-warming stories in snooker in years. Let's enjoy that and let the future take care of itself for once. :-)

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Pink Ball

Cloud Strife wrote:You make some very salient points, Dan.

Sometimes a lot of us fall into the trap of worrying too much about the future or pontificating over what happened in the past. It's always one or other.

I say let's stop and take a moment to enjoy the present. Last night was one of the most heart-warming stories in snooker in years. Let's enjoy that and let the future take care of itself for once. :-)


This is true. I probably haven't been this happy for a ranking event winner since Jimmy in 2004.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Dan-cat

Cloud Strife wrote:You make some very salient points, Dan.

Sometimes a lot of us fall into the trap of worrying too much about the future or pontificating over what happened in the past. It's always one or other.

I say let's stop and take a moment to enjoy the present. Last night was one of the most heart-warming stories in snooker in years. Let's enjoy that and let the future take care of itself for once. :-)


Well said Cloudy. Potty Pottingham deserved that more than an other player. I've heard that Ronnie and Ali stopped practising with him years ago because of his continual scoring.

Moaning does absolutely buck all, ever, btw, apart from creating a negative story inside your mind that doesn't serve you in anyway. It's a negative process. Either do something about what you have a moan about, or STFU.

Pinkie you sexy b&stard your gags are on fire at the mo, and yet I can't help feeling they are watered down by your moaning.

Quit the moaning and I'll treat you to a session at the Crucible. I'm a man of my word. It's all I have.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Pink Ball

Dan-cat wrote:
Cloud Strife wrote:You make some very salient points, Dan.

Sometimes a lot of us fall into the trap of worrying too much about the future or pontificating over what happened in the past. It's always one or other.

I say let's stop and take a moment to enjoy the present. Last night was one of the most heart-warming stories in snooker in years. Let's enjoy that and let the future take care of itself for once. :-)


Well said Cloudy. Potty Pottingham deserved that more than an other player. I've heard that Ronnie and Ali stopped practising with him years ago because of his continual scoring.

Moaning does absolutely buck all, ever, btw, apart from creating a negative story inside your mind that doesn't serve you in anyway. It's a negative process. Either do something about what you have a moan about, or STFU.

Pinkie you sexy b&stard your gags are on fire at the mo, and yet I can't help feeling they are watered down by your moaning.

Quit the moaning and I'll treat you to a session at the Crucible. I'm a man of my word. It's all I have.


RE Sexiness: Yes, I am
RE My gags: Yes, hilarious.
RE me complaining: Okay.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby mick745

The trouble is a myth has arisen (perpetrated by the main broadcasters) that the point of the sport is to pot and make big breaks as that is apparently more 'entertaining' to watch. Those of us that understand the sport realise that this is only an element of competence of the sport which is a multi-layered tactical game.

Yest he current crop are good at potting and break building but this doesn't do you any good unless your tactical acumen is good enough to enable you to create chances for yourself. The players of old would have tied the current lot of players up in tactical knots. I would love to see a peak Steve D or Ray Reardon competing now.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby hendry_fan

mick745 wrote:The trouble is a myth has arisen (perpetrated by the main broadcasters) that the point of the sport is to pot and make big breaks as that is apparently more 'entertaining' to watch. Those of us that understand the sport realise that this is only an element of competence of the sport which is a multi-layered tactical game.

Yest he current crop are good at potting and break building but this doesn't do you any good unless your tactical acumen is good enough to enable you to create chances for yourself. The players of old would have tied the current lot of players up in tactical knots. I would love to see a peak Steve D or Ray Reardon competing now.






:goodpost: Mick!,especially this bit,...


"Yest he current crop are good at potting and break building but this doesn't do you any good unless your tactical acumen is good enough to enable you to create chances for yourself. The players of old would have tied the current lot of players up in tactical knots. I would love to see a peak Steve D or Ray Reardon competing now.[/quote]"




No doubt,there are more BIG breaks,centuries bein made theses days,but what many forget,is that even eg a century+ <only> wins you 1 frame.


THE STANDARD OF BREAKBUILDING has improved,but theres way more to breakbuilding in snooker.





Many players in the 80,s/90,s played like what Foulds mentioned just the other day,he said along the lines,"that many players shot a break of 30+,40+,50+,then played safe,the nip n tuck method",that was mainly cause they ran outta position and did,nt even have a pot to go fot,or to keep the break goin,it would of meant that they would of had to take on a risky pot,pots they,d highly likely miss,more than they,d get them.

So instead of goin for a silly/risky pot,they chose more often than not to play safe,playin safe of course,you could even put your opponent in deep trouble,all dependin on the situation,you could even lay a very tricky snooker.


Many players in the 80,s/90s,especially in the 80,s,would,nt go for risky pots,they grab a good few points,then play a good saftey,be patient and wait till they got another chance (es) and add another good few points.


Many,many players of the 80,s/90,s were far more patient than many/most players are of last and these days.




Many players these days,especially many of the young guns,would throw there toys outta there prams if they had to play players of the 80,s/90,s,the style of play was so diffrent,there was much more emphasis on the saftey part of the game,especially in the 80,s.


Another point is why many waffle about the so called "the standards so high these days",is so that if they lose,they can blame,or at least try n blame it,due to the so called super high standards,the truth is,more often than not,they just were,nt bl**dy good enough on the day,but yeah,they can always try n blame it on the standards these days.


Also,any match(es),title(es) they win/achieve these days,they like to make it out as if they are of higher value than in other eras,again,bcause the standards so high these days,it obviously makes them sound that its a much better achievement winnin them these days than if they,d of won it in other eras. <doh>



And last but not least,many,especially the BBC like to hype up the standards so it makes the sport sound more attractive,to promote it better,they do it to sell the sport,to make it sound/appear more intrestin,especially to many young guns,who are really only intrested if they can watch a BIG break,see a century+ being made.


They and certain players might try n fool or indeed fool many people,especially the younger spectators that the standards so buckin high theeeese days,but they aint foolin me and many others who have been watchin the sport as far as way back as the 80,s/mid 80,s or for a lonnnnnnng time.

Re: When's the penny going to drop?

Postby Wildey

Cloud Strife wrote:You make some very salient points, Dan.

Sometimes a lot of us fall into the trap of worrying too much about the future or pontificating over what happened in the past. It's always one or other.

I say let's stop and take a moment to enjoy the present. Last night was one of the most heart-warming stories in snooker in years. Let's enjoy that and let the future take care of itself for once. :-)

i worry about the future because i care.


We cant even call King and Hamilton has beers that re discover a winning formula

Hamilton/King vs Hendry

Hendry 19 wins

Hamilton/King combined 3 wins

and your saying Hendry was winning during a weaker era buck me

what the hell is Lisowski doing?

Hamilton was ranked 79 after the English Open (last time a 20 something won a tournament) now hes 37 after narrowing keeping his place on tour last season and meanwhile young players are fannying about doing sweet buck all.