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How accurate is the Joe Johnson / Stuart Bingham comparison?

Postby SnookerFan

During the World Championship final, the commentators show they know about other Crucible finals than 1985, by moving on to the 1986 final. The opinion that Bingham's win would be as big a shock as the 1986 Joe Johnson victory.

Is that accurate, or is it a bit disrespectful?

Bingham had won two full rankers coming into Sheffield. (And some minor rankers too, obviously.) Joe Johnson had never won an event that had carried ranking points pre-1986. As much of a surprise as it was that Bingham won, he was nowhere near the 150-1 outsider that Johnson was.

I mean no disrespect to Joe, as he's a good guy. But was Bingham's win, as unexpected as it was, really as big a deal as somebody like Joe Johnson beating the mighty Steve Davis?

Or am I being too literal? Were the BBC just claiming he was an unexpected winner, and no more than that.

Re: How accurate is the Joe Johnson / Stuart Bingham compari

Postby Ayrshirebhoy

Bingham was a journeyman for many years and I guess it's a label that's stuck even thou I think he has been a top 5 player for a couple of years now. I always thought he would be a guy who could make semis and the odd final but never win a major. Just keeps improving, next step world no 1.

Re: How accurate is the Joe Johnson / Stuart Bingham compari

Postby PLtheRef

sundaygirl wrote:World number 10 beats World number 8

Joe was ranked 16th when he became world champion back in 1986 - and moved to eighth on the ranking list.

I think the reason there are so many comparisons between Stuart and Joe is that though both of them were known for being decent players (Stuart obviously considerably more so) on Saturday 18th April, you would not have suggested Stuart as the champion in 2015, no more than people would have said Joe would leave with the trophy back in 1986.

Stuart's also I believe the longest serving professional to win the championship at 20 years?

The comparisons for me are in the final against Murphy - compared to that final against Davis in 1986, Murphy started as favourite, just as Steve did against Joe. Having led by a commanding margin at the Sunday night interval, both Murphy and Davis were hauled to pretty much level, 9-8 Murphy in 2015, and 8-8 in the 1986

Having taken the lead both Bingham and Johnson seemed to ease themselves in the form of their lives, to take command of their respective finals. The only difference seemingly being that Johnson pulled away on Monday night to win 18-12 whilst Bingham had to win the final having been pulled back to 15-15 having led 15-12

I know it's not the Crucible but there are similarities between Johnson at the Crucible in 1986, Bingham at the Crucible in 2015 and Mountjoy at Preston in 1988

Re: How accurate is the Joe Johnson / Stuart Bingham compari

Postby KrazeeEyezKilla

sundaygirl wrote:World number 10 beats World number 8

SnookerFan wrote:Biggest. Upset. Ever.

I think once Bingham made the final there was a decent chance he would win it. There was always the danger that the occasion would be too much for him and he'd get hammered but I would have gave him about a 40% chance, which is more than Joe Johnson would have had against Davis. It was the fact that he beat both O'Sullivan and Trump that was surprising as they were the type of players I didn't see him beating not Murphy.

What made Binghams win such a shock is those years as a journeymen. If he had been born in 1986 and turned pro in 2005 and his career had the same path since then it wouldn't have been so odd. Also although he had won two ranking events he hadn't won an event in Britain. He had become a solid top 10 level player who just feel short on the biggest occasions. Losing the Champions Final to Ronnie 10-8 and the UK Semi to Robertson 9-8 and O'Sullivan 6-5 put him on a level similar to Maguire who also beat him 9-8 in a Welsh final. The fact that he never had a big run at the Crucible probably was a help to him in the end as everything was seen as a bonus and he was under the radar. He would have been under less pressure as people didn't expect him to win but also would have known that he would never get a better chance to win it and now was the time to take it. The "ah sure he's only 26, he's got plenty of time" attitude that people have towards Trump or Ding could have a negatve effect where on one hand they have the pressure of been seen a future World Champ and being expected to win it yet also have the complacency of thinking there will be more chances in the future if they don't do it now.

Re: How accurate is the Joe Johnson / Stuart Bingham compari

Postby Wildey

Joe Johnson made his Crucible debut in 1984 losing 10-1 to Dennis Taylor and he qualified again in 1985 losing first match to Bill Werbeniuk 10-8.

So in 1986 his chances seemed very slim

Joe Johnson actually Won his first Crucible match in 1986 and his last in 1988 when he beat Cliff Wilson 10-7 in the 1st round 10 years after Cliff Wilson beat him to win the World Amateur championship.

he last played at the Crucible in 1991 losing 10-6 to Dennis Taylor the 5th time out of 8 appearances he lost in the 1st round.

Bingham was a more successful player at the Crucible before he won than Joe Johnson was