Long Term Plans or Short Sighted Ideas

theres been a lot of talk about Barry Hearn's Plans on forums from what you seen of them what do you think ?

Long Term Solutions(thinking of the future of snooker)
Short Term Fix (trying to squeese every last penny he can for todays players but sod future players)

wildJONESEYE wrote:theres been a lot of talk about Barry Hearn's Plans on forums from what you seen of them what do you think ?

Long Term Solutions(thinking of the future of snooker)
Short Term Fix (trying to squeese every last penny he can for todays players but sod future players)

That's not how it is Wild. Both things are needed. Short term fixes to reconquer interest and audience and convince bodies like BBC the sport is worth it. Long term plans and thinking to build health in the sport so that it has a real future. It's his own interest.

im not saying that how it is im asking how its being looked at by people.

my concern is and i hope to dear god im wrong or snooker trully is in the rubbish like we've never known it ever before.

when Barry has managed to change aspect of the sport and make his cash out of it he will walk away and leave us with a sport that promises nothing for the young players and you basically have to be a well known circus act to have a future in the sport.

theres no point getting people interested in football by showing them Rugby that is what he is basically doing or allegedly going to do.

you need to get the structure sound and its a worry he isnt concentrating on that and putting all his energy in going down this circus route.

wild - I see where you are coming from with this.

Hearn never does anything without money being in the back of his mind. He makes no secret of it. He is flash, he succeeds in most everything he is involved in - from what I can gather (Lleyton Orient aren't much cop however).

Snooker was somewhat floundering and there was discontent so Hearn got the vote and Walker got the boot.

Hearn has already hit on one of the major problems with sponsors (lack thereof) and next on his agenda is packing out venues.

He obviously see the route to achieving this by having a load of formats that he thinks will draw the crowd in. Crowd being drawn in = cash.

Personally I would never pay to watch a shot clock tournament (at the venue) nor would I be interested in paying for a 1 frame shoot out type tourney or best of 5 frame tournies. I guess I am a traditionalist, stuck in my ways and with no view to changing.

As stated the other day - if I end only watching 2 snooker tournies each year (World and UK) - then so be it.

this thread was inspired by other people being concerned just as much as me.

id like to see Barry proving me wrong and i will start another thread saying sorry.

wildJONESEYE wrote:this thread was inspired by other people being concerned just as much as me.

id like to see Barry proving me wrong and i will start another thread saying sorry.

there is no need to be sorry, your concerns are shared by others - me included - we are in for some interesting times, just not sure how much I am gonna like the outcome

I think I'm right in saying I remember recently (prior to Hearn though) that in a BBC poll about snooker most people said they would prefer more longer format tournaments rather than shorter format. Obviously I'd prefer longer format because you get more involved in the match and the better player tends to win. A good mix of sprint and longer format would be ideal but only having 2 tournaments (UK and Worlds although there's been no mention of the Masters which is slightly longer format) isn't enough of the latter.

If the idea is to have more shorter format to build up the interest again and then introduce more longer format on the back of it then I'm all for it, but one frame shoot outs although potentially entertaining isn't the way forward other than for novelty. Best of 5's is a more realistic quick fire format which can be used again and again.

Sonny wrote:I think I'm right in saying I remember recently (prior to Hearn though) that in a BBC poll about snooker most people said they would prefer more longer format tournaments rather than shorter format. Obviously I'd prefer longer format because you get more involved in the match and the better player tends to win. A good mix of sprint and longer format would be ideal but only having 2 tournaments (UK and Worlds although there's been no mention of the Masters which is slightly longer format) isn't enough of the latter.

If the idea is to have more shorter format to build up the interest again and then introduce more longer format on the back of it then I'm all for it, but one frame shoot outs although potentially entertaining isn't the way forward other than for novelty. Best of 5's is a more realistic quick fire format which can be used again and again.

thing is if you gonna atract new people using short formats why would they be interested in long formats ?

i think what snooker needs is more long formats persanally and not think quick = more.

has reducing the UK Final from 31 frames to 19 frames worked in truth i don't think so these days the UK is not seen as prestigious as it was when you won it over 4 sessions and that tournament is lacking because of it.

by looking towards everything short and quick its de valuating the sport. whats needed is to think the other way.

Sonny wrote:I think I'm right in saying I remember recently (prior to Hearn though) that in a BBC poll about snooker most people said they would prefer more longer format tournaments rather than shorter format. Obviously I'd prefer longer format because you get more involved in the match and the better player tends to win. A good mix of sprint and longer format would be ideal but only having 2 tournaments (UK and Worlds although there's been no mention of the Masters which is slightly longer format) isn't enough of the latter.

If the idea is to have more shorter format to build up the interest again and then introduce more longer format on the back of it then I'm all for it, but one frame shoot outs although potentially entertaining isn't the way forward other than for novelty. Best of 5's is a more realistic quick fire format which can be used again and again.

TBH the BBC polls allow for the same person to vote several times and although I never did it myself I know of others who did. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions there.
Having said that I like the longer formats myself. But I accept it's not suited for everyone. In Asia they are not a big hit. For very young viewers or beginners they ask too much. So I'm all for a mix.

How did they used to do the UK final? Was it over Saturday and Sunday, 4 sessions? It's that long ago I can't remember. At least Jimmy won it when it was first to 16.

Sonny wrote:How did they used to do the UK final? Was it over Saturday and Sunday, 4 sessions? It's that long ago I can't remember. At least Jimmy won it when it was first to 16.

yup Saturday and Sunday Final jimmy was the last winner of it under that format in 1992 and Ronnie the first winner under the best of 19.

I remember both finals well. Be good to see them again, esp 1993

wildJONESEYE wrote:

Sonny wrote:I think I'm right in saying I remember recently (prior to Hearn though) that in a BBC poll about snooker most people said they would prefer more longer format tournaments rather than shorter format. Obviously I'd prefer longer format because you get more involved in the match and the better player tends to win. A good mix of sprint and longer format would be ideal but only having 2 tournaments (UK and Worlds although there's been no mention of the Masters which is slightly longer format) isn't enough of the latter.

If the idea is to have more shorter format to build up the interest again and then introduce more longer format on the back of it then I'm all for it, but one frame shoot outs although potentially entertaining isn't the way forward other than for novelty. Best of 5's is a more realistic quick fire format which can be used again and again.

thing is if you gonna atract new people using short formats why would they be interested in long formats ?

i think what snooker needs is more long formats persanally and not think quick = more.

has reducing the UK Final from 31 frames to 19 frames worked in truth i don't think so these days the UK is not seen as prestigious as it was when you won it over 4 sessions and that tournament is lacking because of it.

by looking towards everything short and quick its de valuating the sport. whats needed is to think the other way.

Wild... would you teach anyone to drive by putting them first on a formula one? or a heavy truck? Of course not.
People learn, and as they understand more about the subtilities and tactical facettes of the game they come to appreciate the longer formats. But when they just discover the game it's too much to ask for most.

Sonny wrote:I remember both finals well. Be good to see them again, esp 1993

i never saw it

thing is monique next month in Sheffield there will be people on forums especially 606 that don't post on snooker and there will be viewers that not normally watching and that tournament is best of 19,25,33 and 35 frames so if thats the format of tournament that attracts seasonal viewers why do we need to look short ?

i like 19 frame format

wildJONESEYE wrote:thing is monique next month in Sheffield there will be people on forums especially 606 that don't post on snooker and there will be viewers that not normally watching and that tournament is best of 19,25,33 and 35 frames so if thats the format of tournament that attracts seasonal viewers why do we need to look short ?

I very much doubt Wild that people go to the Crucible out of the blue without knowing the sport. Very much. They wouldn't know how to get tix in time for a start. Don't be deluded. This is the annual rendez-vous of the hardcore fans. And the fact that they don't post on forums does not mean they don't follow the sport. Or that because they post on forums they do follow it... you wonder sometimes when you read certain posts!

rocket_ron wrote:i like 19 frame format

so do i theres more excitement over longer formats

Monique wrote:I very much doubt Wild that people go to the Crucible out of the blue without knowing the sport. Very much. They wouldn't know how to get tix in time for a start. Don't be deluded. This is the annual rendez-vous of the hardcore fans. And the fact that they don't post on forums does not mean they don't follow the sport. Or that because they post on forums they do follow it... you wonder sometimes when you read certain posts!

abit harsh

wildJONESEYE wrote:

rocket_ron wrote:i like 19 frame format

so do i theres more excitement over longer formats

wild, i think there brill, just about right to create as good mastch and atmosphere, best of 9's can be too quick

Monique wrote:

wildJONESEYE wrote:thing is monique next month in Sheffield there will be people on forums especially 606 that don't post on snooker and there will be viewers that not normally watching and that tournament is best of 19,25,33 and 35 frames so if thats the format of tournament that attracts seasonal viewers why do we need to look short ?

I very much doubt Wild that people go to the Crucible out of the blue without knowing the sport. Very much. They wouldn't know how to get tix in time for a start. Don't be deluded. This is the annual rendez-vous of the hardcore fans. And the fact that they don't post on forums does not mean they don't follow the sport. Or that because they post on forums they do follow it... you wonder sometimes when you read certain posts!

they go to the crucible because theres more excitement there however every year on 606 they come out of the woodwork surely they got internet all year round so if they interested in other tournaments they will post on it.

rocket_ron wrote:

Monique wrote:I very much doubt Wild that people go to the Crucible out of the blue without knowing the sport. Very much. They wouldn't know how to get tix in time for a start. Don't be deluded. This is the annual rendez-vous of the hardcore fans. And the fact that they don't post on forums does not mean they don't follow the sport. Or that because they post on forums they do follow it... you wonder sometimes when you read certain posts!

abit harsh

No I'm not harsh. I'm moderating Ronnie's forum and we have posters there who haven't posted a single thing about snooker in several years. We have girls there who wouldn't know which end of the cue to use to play ... well if we speak of his snooker cue of course. Not something we see on THIS forum that's certain. But some posts on 606 make you wonder also. And on TSF I know posters who don't ever watch snooker unless it's Higgins or Robbo playing.

wild - Your giving out about something but I haven't quite put my finger on it yet exactly what your giving out about?

We've got the China Open coming up, & the Glorious World's (Bless Them), & then we've got the Summer, time off Snooker News style. That's when we need to start hearing about things that we haven't heard anything about before. If Summer, this Summer, stay's empty Snooker News style, then we'll all have something to agree on, & most of us will be pretty upset with it too. Lets have a look & a Listen.

Give it a chance, my Snooker loving Brother from another Mother.

im not convinced by or trust Barry Hearn as far as i could throw him its that simple. never liked the guy and when he walked away from the sport and concentrated on other things i wasn't surprised.

my persanal opinion is he will bleed the sport dry living for now lining the pockets of the likes of Ronnie and Higgins but not looking to bring on young players the less pros the more cash he can make and more cash he can make the top stars earn showing he did what was expected of him.

in Darts the BDO Does the groundwork bringing on young players before the PDC takes them over. in snooker its different he has responsibility for every aspect of the sport what ive herd from him so far doesn't fill me with confident that he gives a stuff about them.

wildJONESEYE wrote:im not convinced by or trust Barry Hearn as far as i could throw him its that simple. never liked the guy and when he walked away from the sport and concentrated on other things i wasn't surprised.

my persanal opinion is he will bleed the sport dry living for now lining the pockets of the likes of Ronnie and Higgins but not looking to bring on young players the less pros the more cash he can make and more cash he can make the top stars earn showing he did what was expected of him.

in Darts the BDO Does the groundwork bringing on young players before the PDC takes them over. in snooker its different he has responsibility for every aspect of the sport what ive herd from him so far doesn't fill me with confident that he gives a stuff about them.

I'm going to give Hearn a chance, but I think he's very misguided in thinking that shorter formats will attract more people. Every year in my school, people who generally don't show all that much interest in snooker, become 'experts' and avid followers during......... the World & UK Championship. Coincidentally, the two longest tournaments of the year.

The Masters is the shortest major, some like to claim it's the second biggest tournament (ludicrously in my opinion), and yet it gets nowhere near as much attention in my school as the UK & Worlds.

It's great that Hearn has left the World Championship as it is, it's a perfect tournament, but the UK badly needed revamping. When we only have two longer frame tournaments, the UK should be bigged up a bit.

Best-of-19 UK final = disaster...... Best of 31 or 25
Four tables = disaster
Only nine days = disaster
Telford = disaster....... Guild Hall is the only option

Also..... the Premier League as a marquee event? Rubbish. I'd love to see a proper league, with the top 6 players in the world, a qualifier and a wild card. No shot clock. Matches best-of-8 (leaving room for a 4-4 draw), but ending once someone reaches 5.

im prepared to give him a chance but now we got the reigning World Champion talking about a one day final what a bloody idiot.

thetubberlad wrote:It's great that Hearn has left the World Championship as it is, it's a perfect tournament, but the UK badly needed revamping. When we only have two longer frame tournaments, the UK should be bigged up a bit.

http://sport.stv.tv/sports-centre/big-f ... nd-celtic/

reigning World Champion wrote:“To have a final lasting two days, I think maybe it could change in the coming years and I think Barry Hearn might say we’re going to make it shorter and sharper where now people can tune in and find out the winner there and then,” said Higgins.

I think the PL comment was bull of the highest order but we have to remember that this is Barry "loadsamoney" Hearn here so he is gonna plug his own tournies every chance he gets or he would not be Barry "loadsamoney" Hearn.

Just the way he is.......

thetubberlad wrote:I'm going to give Hearn a chance, but I think he's very misguided in thinking that shorter formats will attract more people. Every year in my school, people who generally don't show all that much interest in snooker, become 'experts' and avid followers during......... the World & UK Championship. Coincidentally, the two longest tournaments of the year.

The Masters is the shortest major, some like to claim it's the second biggest tournament (ludicrously in my opinion), and yet it gets nowhere near as much attention in my school as the UK & Worlds.

It's great that Hearn has left the World Championship as it is, it's a perfect tournament, but the UK badly needed revamping. When we only have two longer frame tournaments, the UK should be bigged up a bit.

Best-of-19 UK final = disaster...... Best of 31 or 25
Four tables = disaster
Only nine days = disaster
Telford = disaster....... Guild Hall is the only option

Also..... the Premier League as a marquee event? Rubbish. I'd love to see a proper league, with the top 6 players in the world, a qualifier and a wild card. No shot clock. Matches best-of-8 (leaving room for a 4-4 draw), but ending once someone reaches 5.

Excellent post tubber

People DO get most interested in the Major events - the WC and the UK. You'll see it in viewing figures, in website hits (BBC scoring and streaming more than fairly obscure - no offence Sonny - forums). It's a general rule of sport, the marquee major events are the ones people tune in most for. You'll get more interest from the general public for Wimbledon than Queens, more for the Open or the Masters golf than for the Spanish or French Opens, more for the Ashes than for an England-Pakistan series, more for the Champions League than for the Europa League, more for the Grand National than for the 2:30 from Sandown, and so on. And what makes the marquee events, marquee events? A combination of things - history and tradition, respect of the players, respect of the diehard fans - but one of them is that the marquee events are the hardest, but produce the fairest winner. So it's tougher to win in 5 sets than in 3, but it's more likely to produce the right winner, and Augusta is a tougher course than any minor tour event, but a "truer test" of a golfer - and a best of 35 is both tougher, and fairer, than a best of 9. It doesn't need a genius to notice that the WC gets far more press and occasional-fan attention than the Welsh Open, despite being played only a couple of hundred miles from each other - so who's to say the shorter format is the more likely to get more fans in? If you put all your resources into publicising it, at the expense of longer events, it probably will. But that argument works the other way round as well.

I've always found the timing of the UK Championship, a bit suspect. As the second most prestigious ranking event putting it a week or so before Christmas always seemed odd to me. People are busy with Christmas parties, and organising Christmas events, and are spending money on things other then going to snooker events. There have been a couple of UK Championships, I've got to the second weekend and thought; "buck me, I've barely watched any of this."

SnookerFan wrote:I've always found the timing of the UK Championship, a bit suspect. As the second most prestigious ranking event putting it a week or so before Christmas always seemed odd to me. People are busy with Christmas parties, and organising Christmas events, and are spending money on things other then going to snooker events. There have been a couple of UK Championships, I've got to the second weekend and thought; "buck me, I've barely watched any of this."

Yup thats a very good point it was better in november where it always was before a brain storm from the WSA.

what is it with snooker players and administration that just says Thickos its gone on for years and it doesn't look like easing up anytime soon either.