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Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Dan-cat wrote:
acesinc wrote:
Thanks Dan-cat, but I'm sure you do fine and make us proud. My big improvements have just come in the last two years...dismantled everything from the ground up and re-built my whole approach to the game. I'm hitting half century about every three months now even in such conditions. With a proper playing partner, feeding each other encouragement and playing the game properly, I think I could hit half century every week. I think I will hit 75 but it won't be for a year or two and who knows? Maybe a century one day. Best in lineup now is 93 so its out there.


93 - that's pretty amazing!! You make the game look easy in that clip, and it looks like you could have made more if not for the long interruption. I'd be fascinated to hear how and what you did to rebuild your game. I've always been able to pot them off the lamp shades. I sometimes make ridiculous shots. But I always break down around the 20 mark, and yet I have a good understanding of positional play and am able to execute screw and shots with side etc. I have a good stance and cue action but think I need to work on my pre-shot drill. I'm wildly inconsistent. Uh oh, I've gone off topic...


Thanks for the kind words. Yes, that interruption is what prompted this thread in the first place. I was honestly wondering if I just had "selective memory" of my snooker experience back in Harrogate, or if others who truly appreciate Snooker treat the "etiquette issue" the same as I.

About that particular break, it was a very nice sequence and my mind was in exactly the right place. I had no idea of my break score, I just saw my lines on the table of one shot to the next to the next. That last black ball, the trick was a very narrow margin of not hitting the red sitting on black cush, yet following the line to not hit the pink on its spot (very much like that Cannons and Corridors drill). You can see in my body language that I followed my line perfectly, I was ready to play stun off the red to leave the black in the same pocket and from wherever white ended, I would then be in position to either nudge red off cushion or play up to the red near green if I had to. It was all RIGHT THERE staring me in the face and I was ready to take it. In a perfect world, I could have gotten the nudge which would leave the black to get up to the last red and a potential clearance. Not likely, but it was a potential 106 on looking at it now (more likely a few points less as I surely would have taken blue or baulk off the last red but still a possible century). Then............. I have to take a break for over a minute figure out my score, come to the realization that I have just made my lifetime high break and every following pot will make it a bigger number, waiver in my steadfastness to play the stun (I decided to follow....wrong decision), and ultimately miss one of the easiest pots of the whole break. That sort of thing is frustrating and if you don't laugh, you would have to cry. When I finally attempted to crouch for the red that I missed, it was as if I had just been forced to stand naked in a meat freezer for fifteen minutes then come out and attempt the pot. I really had no chance at that point.

So I posted the thread to verify that the Proper Game of Snooker is still alive and well as I remember it, even if I have not managed to implement it over in my little nook of the States. Not yet anyway, but I will continue to try.

As for your inquiry about what changes I made, I will be happy to post a bit about that (you can clearly see, that I am rarely at a loss for words) but I will save it for another time (gonna be pretty busy here for the next few days at least so I won't get to it) and I will start it as a new thread that I suppose should properly go in the Coaching section as it would be about technique.

Thanks for your interest and thanks to all for hearing out my rants and especially thanks to the replies which affirms for me that the proper game of Snooker still thrives.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby The Cueist

No probs Dan , Just been tetchy , Working nights and so on.
Apologies if you felt insulted .

Your point about bad losers is very interesting as it seems to be rife .

I hate losing a frame of pool or snooker myself .
But I dont act like a big child over it.
And I respect the fact that I have been outplayed or the run of the ball has evened itself out over 10 frames or so .

I think the worst one was when I like you lost my singles final for the second time running to the same guy on a black in a best of five english pool league final.

I took it like a man , I was only 17 at the time but I took solace in the fact that I knew that he knew I was more than good enough to beat him and he admitted lady luck was on his side.

I used to play a guy who was a cracking player , 80 break class.

I used to win more than I lost against him eg over 11 framesvi would come out 7 - 4.
He would sometimes win 10 - 1 but I would never pack my cue away as I enjoyed his company and the snooker we played.

He used to regularly beat the guy who always sledged me and wouldnt spot the balls or call the score.
This guy told me one day he wanted to hit him and he
Might as well get a pair of rollerskates so my mate could get round the table quicker , That is how jealous
And screwed up this 40 year old man was.
He seemed to want to have too much to do with young
People .
Bloke was a complete eediot on reflection .
No need for it , It is only a game after all.

I have another poster saying that I insult when I dont agree.
Rubbish , I wil agree to differ I cannot be bothered to do long winded histrionic posts to prove a point .
I always say each to their own in any infividuals personal views.

I have the right to my opinion as they do.
I do not have to always agree eith them and they do not have to always agree wit me .

I accept this and for thosecwho cant then maybe they need to hrow up little bit .

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby Dan-cat

Cueist, the last time I got offended on a forum was back in '95, the internet had not long been invented by Mr Berners Lee!

My mate got cross last night actually. In our first frame he made a 40 break, was miles ahead on points, was playing like a dream and only needed one more red and then I just kept fluking balls. It was ridiculous. 6 flukes in total I think and I then I fluked the final black! He didn't say a word for the next two frames and his game fell apart and I thrashed him. I had no right to win that first frame, he played amazingly and I was playing like I was holding my cue the wrong way round. The cruel game...

Acesinc, I really look forward to your post in the coaching section, no rush :)

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby The Cueist

Just to add , I hit submit post too early , I am a 30 to 40 break player and when I was younger I would lose so many frames not guarding my advantage .
I used to be so anti safety , Instead going for the 8 ft pot down the cush with screw and side.
It took me ages to work out that 7 times out of ten
The red would bounce out and lie just after mid table
And leave pot to middle.

For the last 16 years or so I guard my advantages.
Play safe and poach then play safe when it is yoo risky.

So much easier than going all out for kamikaze shots Judd Trump style .

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Hi Cueist.

I am still lurking, I do a quick check in every couple of days. I will only be an occasional poster for a couple reasons:
1) I run a small business which can keep me very busy just trying to keep my kids' bellies full. Not too much time for snooker related activities and when I have time, I usually prefer time on the table to hanging out in the forum.
2) I really have nothing to contribute in the threads related to the current professional game. It really is a snooker desert over here in the US so it is not easy to follow the professional game at all. It would be like you trying to following baseball; there's just no exposure. The few years that I lived in England, I had snooker on the telly all the time, but over here, I have to go out of my way to try to find a crappy stream on the internet that keeps locking up at odd hours of the day to watch these guys play at a level that is almost incomprehensible. I mostly like to watch the pro game as a learning tool and I find that watching the old videos on YouTube is more useful for that because the pros from the 80's and 90's made lots of mistakes so I can learn how to deal with those types of mistakes in my game. The modern professionals have a technical proficiency that I may as well not bother even dreaming about so I can't really learn anything from them. And I have no interest in gambling on the matches or following the stats of top players or anything like that.

So I mostly just love to play the game and try to continuously improve in my own abilities. I am extremely detail oriented and stringent on rules, strategies, and etiquette so my contributions will probably only ever be in those areas.

Thanks for your concern and checking in on me. :wave:

P.S. - I am planning on posting some info for Dan-cat in the coaching section detailing my journey toward improving my game but it looks like I will be busy with work for quite a while and there is quite a bit to say so that will take me some time to get to yet.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby The Cueist

Hi Acesinc , Thanks for your reply and good to hear you
Are still posting as your posts are interesting .

I can see by your posts of you in action on your club table you love tbe game and can play it as well.

Very impressed .

I too play the game and at a quick tempo as I am impatient by nature I dont hang about !!!!!! J!!!!!!!

I see tbat in the way you play , You dont waste the light.!!!!!!!!!!! J!!!!!!!!!

I like that when I play .
I play a few people I know these days when I have the time or they have the time .
We dont mess about , Etiquette is sorted as we tfy and cram 9 frames into 3 hour session.
I know what you mean running a business to run the family .

I am in much the same position .
I do get to see plenty of pro snooker on tv and if I cant play snooker then I am happy to watch.
Playing the game is where it is at.

Anyway I look forward to reading your pists on improving your game.
Your pists are detailed and a good read by the way
Cheers Acesinc

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

I figured I would revive this, the first thread I ever started on SI, after I saw the Liang Wenbo thread:
viewtopic.php?f=624&t=6949
Liang Wenbo would fit perfectly into my club. In fact, he would very probably learn a few new tactics.

Following is a rant....don't bother reading unless you want a little chuckle. Like many of my posts, it's a long read. Don't bother complaining; you have been warned. I had a crap week at work, at home, and (resultingly) on the table so I figured I would vent a little.

For any who remember my introduction to the forum, my little club still exists in nearly the same state it always has; that is to say, barely existing. The highlight, if you have followed the soap opera, is that my kid has really taken a shine to the game and we get a good 4 to 6 hour session of phenomenal snooker in nearly every weekend which helps keep me sane. However, he has missed the last two weekends due to activity with friends one week and being under the weather this weekend. I do play other snooker another 4 to 6 hours a week with other club members as detailed in previous posts, but it is not very fruitful or useful, mostly just banging balls around as detailed above. My game play with my kid is very useful and I am very happy with where this has brought my game. I'm no pro and know I never will be but my table does play tough; I take pride in the pockets being cut to proper template and with the heavy club cloth, there is plenty of nap roll with which to contend. Several club members have made claim that they have run centuries in the past (on other tables), but beside one player, I have not seen others making that claim run more than 40 at my place.

As for my game, I am content but of course, I wish to continue to improve and for me, that mostly means to solidify my potting, and that mostly means controlling my mental game. These days, I will run a 20 some break every second or third frame and break into the 30's about every 5th or 6th frame. 40's and 50's still elude me as their occurrence is documented by a calendar which will need the page flipped a couple of times. 60's and above still only come in line up practice.

I have a new dog who loves spending time at the shop/snooker club. He is 2-1/2 years old but still very much a puppy, loves to jump around and play, and bring a ball to fetch. I keep a door open so he can come and go as he pleases out into the nearby woods to chase animals and bark and whatever else he may get up to that I don't want to know about. (We are way off the beaten path, no streets/traffic around, so he is safe to roam the property.) So while we are playing snooker, the dog will come in, go out, move around, bark, chew his bone.....whatever he wants to do. The striker might even be crouched and ready to shoot, the dog can hear something outside, then zoom to the door, straight under the striker's cue like it is a limbo stick. The dog has no etiquette. But he doesn't bother me in any way with his shenanigans as I have just come to expect the unexpected.

Sadly, this is how I am trying to manage to deal with my Liang Wenbos...think of them exactly the same as the dog. Don't be bothered by anything that may happen because, hey, anything can happen, he just doesn't know any better.

Table time with my kid is serious, but really fun snooker, and we both absolutely want to win our matches. He usually does win, probably about three out of four weekends but while I do extend a generous handicap to him, I am always trying my darndest to win the frame against him. No so with the other club members. With them, I am regularly trying to clean up very scrappy tables, get balls back into play, move a frame along so it doesn't get bogged down in repetitive safety battles, and practice mental yoga for myself playing at shots that I know are not the correct shot for the game situation, but I want to try it just to see if I can. Honestly, I don't care about the frame scores too much. These guys are traveling a long way, often driving an hour or more, just to play snooker at my place (you guys probably have a hard time comprehending the utter lack of snooker facilities here in the USA) and so, it is not my position to try to crush them every frame, and bury them in baulk, and not even allow an opportunity at a shot. That just wouldn't make sense. Instead, I just play social snooker, if I leave balls available, so be it, go ahead and make a few pots on me.

On the flip side, all the guys that come to my place are playing absolute tournament snooker. Whatever it takes, win the frame. The only game they know is the internet stream of a professional match and so that (they believe) is the way to play every frame. I honestly don't think anyone even knows what I am talking about when I use the term "social snooker". When 3 players end up in the club at the same time (a rarity), we play round robin, NOT winner stays on the table, so each player will play 2 of every 3 frames no matter what. The two frames I play in are 20, 25 minutes....you know, just social snooker. The frame I sit out will be no less than 40 minutes, sometimes pushing an hour. It really is quite a spectacle.

So, with that background and also the many posts above, I give you the latest edition of "Whatever It Takes"; finally, the actual reason why I am writing this post. One of the regular players in this weekend, incredible potter but usually poor positional play so a good break of more than four balls is rare. Generally, when we have a session, scoreline comes in around even steven. (See above...while it's not important to me to win every frame, nor am I going to roll over and lose them either.) Well, for some time now, he has had the misfortune of playing against me shortly after my session against my kid. And that means I have been pretty prime and potting well and psychologically in the right place for Snooker. And I guess I had been winning quite a few more frames than usual. So this session, I happened to be up 2 frames and 1, no big deal of course, and on to the fourth frame. I put together an nice standard break, 31, 3 Blacks and a Pink. I go to put it up on the scoreboard so a cursory glance at the current score, 14-13, about even, so up go my points. Well, back and forth a few shots and I managed to pick up another Red and Blue for six and there are two Reds left. So I look at the scoreboard and now I notice my mistake.

Respectfully, I just wait for the opponent to finish his stroke, then say, "Sorry, I zoned out. I put that 31 up on the wrong side so I am going to flip the scores where they belong."

"What do you mean?"

"I had that 31. I forgot I was on the bottom and put it on top."

"Why do you take it so serious? We are just playing for fun! The score is whatever is on the board."

Really? A 62 point flip? (I am losing 31, he is picking up 31.) That is how you play Snooker for fun?

"OK."

I took it as a personal challenge. With the two Reds left, I better pick up at least one colour and need to run the final sequence. I had chances with both Reds, but in both cases, rattled the jaws and left them as sitters for him. So a couple of breaks of "1" later, I failed my challenge and had to admit concession.

I couldn't be mad about it, way past that. I just shook my head and had to smile which actually made the crap week I have been having a little bit better.

That was a new one so I figured I would share it with you. I don't think Liang could get away with that though.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby vodkadiet

There was a player who used to shake his box of matches when his opponent was playing a shot in the days of the chain smoker snooker player. I won't mention his name, but he never achieved much.

And what about when Stephen Hendry lost to Mark Johnston Allen for the 3rd time? He was undoubtedly annoyed and said afterwards "I am losing to people who shouldn't be in the same room!"
Last edited by vodkadiet on 20 Dec 2016, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby Dan-cat

Lovely story Acesinc! 31 point break and he wouldn't flip the scores!!

This is a great thread all round. One of my favourites.

I remember some appalling gamesmanship when I was first playing pool and snooker. The old fellas didn't like losing to a 16 year old boy that's for sure. I was so good. They didn't know that I'd had a 6ft Steve Davis snooker table in my bedroom since I was 13. My room was small, so it was shoved into one corner, so I had to learn precise positional play because I could only shoot from the top and one side of the table!

'With limitations genius is revealed' Confucius

The most common and most obvious and I would fall for it nearly every time was when my opponent would mess up near the end of the pool game, and noisily slam his cue back in the rack and say something along the lines of 'well that's that then, you've won this'. Why does this work? Well suddenly you are left with what he is inferring to be a simple check out, and the pressure is all on you to complete it - as if to say 'what kind of a fool would miss from here?' Sometimes they would even leave the table and head to the bar, with one eye on the game, and for a long time I would almost invariably miss the black, and they would come running back all cock-a-hoop, grab their cue from the rack and pot the black. Arrrgh.

Even the greats do this. I saw Hendry do it last year while watching one of his Chinese 8 ball matches on Youtube - he fluffed his check out, and he pointedly put his cue back quite far from his seat, and sat down as if to say 'well I'm not winning this.' Exactly the same. Haha.

When I graduated from the local pub (the Royal Oak in Burton Leonard, North Yorkshire) to play snooker in Harrogate, there was all sorts of mischief going on with the older guys I was playing. I don't think snooker etiquette is a thing of the past, rather it never existed in the main part! Of course there would be the odd exception - really solid guys who respected the game. I remember being told off for adding each point of the score onto the board when a really good player was on a scoring visit (rather than adding his 30-odd points on at the end of his break.) I genuinely didn't know that was bad form. Never did it again of course.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Dan-cat wrote:'With limitations genius is revealed' Confucius


Hi Dan-cat, I do want to stress time and again....all these stories are in regards to people that I consider to be friends of mine. These are not big rivalries or big money matches or anything like that. It really is just supposed to be friendly snooker. It is just that we see the game through completely polar opposite viewpoints. I really wanted to improve my game because one of my general life philosophies is that anything worth doing is worth doing well. That is why it was so important to me to find a proper playing partner which I now have in my son. (He understands the hard work involved to rise to the top in sport....he is a rising star on the tennis team at school, plays throughout the year, even indoor leagues in winter to improve his game.) So these other guys are all good guys and in their hearts, they wish to improve, but they fall into the old definition of insanity; that is, doing the same thing over and over again and somehow expecting different results.

I know my problems are mostly just between my ears. I am really just using posts like this to reminisce of the halcyon days you once spoke of. Whenever I do get down in the dumps about minor things like this, I do try to find inspiration in others who have over come REAL hurdles in their lives. Here is one that applies to this circumstance. Not a one among us reading this probably needs to deal with the distractions that this guy has:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9xDpq5NPEQ

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby Dan-cat

acesinc wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:'With limitations genius is revealed' Confucius


I really wanted to improve my game because one of my general life philosophies is that anything worth doing is worth doing well.


Absolutely. If I get interested in something I take it to the extreme.

'To be truly good at something, you have to be obsessed' Whispering Ted Lowe

That video is wonderful!! I love the bit at the end too. 'Last season I was the second best player over all in my pool league.' So inspiring. Nice one Acesinc. You're the best.

When I first graduated to snooker, I had a stepping stone club I played at, before Hammerain House. It was a working men's club on Buelah Street. I can't remember the name of it. It had 4 tables, I think the lights were free, and you took turns to play. So I ended up playing all sorts of crafty players. I remember one guy beating me repeatedly who just rolled the balls in so slowly. He'd pot a red and colour, then run up to the long grass. Argh. Standard club play.

I lost my first Parris cue when I went to university. I left it under one of the tables, as I always did, in the working men's club. There was shelving under the tables where we stored our cues. I went back a few months later on my summer break and it had gone. I heard that one of my fellow club members, a good friend, had taken it to keep it safe, but he was nowhere to be found that weekend and this was back in '95 before everyone had a mobile. I heard recently that he'd fallen on hard times and had been on and off homeless. I hope he's OK. I just hope the cue is being used and loved by someone, somewhere, that would make me really happy.

As a sidenote, when I got to university, Royal Holloway in Egham, Surrey, my grant cheque had not made its way to the collection office, and I only had £20 in my pocket. On the Wednesday of fresher's week, two days after I'd got there, there was a pool competition. 200 people entered it, and I battled through with a house cue and won - having trailed 2-0 in the final, winning 3-2. There was a picture of me in the college newspaper, holding aloft my cue Dennis Taylor style! The £50 I won meant I could eat for the next week until my cheque arrived. I was quoted in the interview as being 'f*cking nervous.' Hehe. They had no idea how important it was to me. Thank f*ck for my misspent youth.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Oh, and I should point out about this 31 break and wrong score...I honestly do NOT believe it was any effort by my opponent to defraud in any way. Just a case of selective memory. Like I said, I have been winning more than usual lately so I think his brain recognized I had a 31 break but partitioned that memory into some other frame (we do have a lot of frames together as he, like myself, is a very fast player), not the current frame. Of course, there is also the possibility that I had the selective memory, not he; I admit that. I don't believe it to be the case though because of the specific memories of the previous score (14-13), I had put my 31 wrongly on the top line because I had shortly before had a couple frames with someone else and I had been top line for that game. So doing the arithmetic, I figured I was 32 up when I really was 30 up (I was the 13, not the 14) so my memories are very, very specific implying that they are not "selective". And the fact that the 31 break had just occurred 6 turns ago, 3 for him and 3 for me. I think the brain really is amazing how it can create an alternate reality so I still admit that it is possible that I am wrong...after all, my wife reminds me of that daily!

With this sort of thing though, I find it not worth even attempting an argument. As I said, I prefer to look at it as a personal challenge.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby SnookerEd25

Glad this thread has got a bump, really enjoyed reading it before; just wondered, AcesInc, how your ambitions with regard to the US championships have furthered?, and now that your boy is showing good aptitude too, is it an arena he might look to compete in in the future? (Indeed, is there a Junior version at all?)

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Dan-cat wrote:
acesinc wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:'With limitations genius is revealed' Confucius


I really wanted to improve my game because one of my general life philosophies is that anything worth doing is worth doing well.


Absolutely. If I get interested in something I take it to the extreme.

'To be truly good at something, you have to be obsessed' Whispering Ted Lowe

That video is wonderful!! I love the bit at the end too. 'Last season I was the second best player over all in my pool league.' So inspiring. Nice one Acesinc. You're the best.

When I first graduated to snooker, I had a stepping stone club I played at, before Hammerain House. It was a working men's club on Buelah Street. I can't remember the name of it. It had 4 tables, I think the lights were free, and you took turns to play. So I ended up playing all sorts of crafty players. I remember one guy beating me repeatedly who just rolled the balls in so slowly. He'd pot a red and colour, then run up to the long grass. Argh. Standard club play.

I lost my first Parris cue when I went to university. I left it under one of the tables, as I always did, in the working men's club. There was shelving under the tables where we stored our cues. I went back a few months later on my summer break and it had gone. I heard that one of my fellow club members, a good friend, had taken it to keep it safe, but he was nowhere to be found that weekend and this was back in '95 before everyone had a mobile. I heard recently that he'd fallen on hard times and had been on and off homeless. I hope he's OK. I just hope the cue is being used and loved by someone, somewhere, that would make me really happy.

As a sidenote, when I got to university, Royal Holloway in Egham, Surrey, my grant cheque had not made its way to the collection office, and I only had £20 in my pocket. On the Wednesday of fresher's week, two days after I'd got there, there was a pool competition. 200 people entered it, and I battled through with a house cue and won - having trailed 2-0 in the final, winning 3-2. There was a picture of me in the college newspaper, holding aloft my cue Dennis Taylor style! The £50 I won meant I could eat for the next week until my cheque arrived. I was quoted in the interview as being 'f*cking nervous.' Hehe. They had no idea how important it was to me. Thank f*ck for my misspent youth.


Finally back on a real keyboard.

Sad to hear about your Parris cue of the paper round money. I used my paper round money to buy a guitar when I was about 12. More accurately, my parents bought it but I insisted on paying them back in installments over about 3 years....life lesson. Still love that guitar though I rarely pick it up these days.

Sadder to hear of your old mate; I hope he has managed to pull his life back together eventually.


The pressure shots have always been the ones to bring me down; those shots like you had to pull out to win the tournament. Playing the game in order to eat and I would probably end up a pretty skinny guy. Fortunately, I have other talents beside snooker so I have a respectable beer belly to keep me solidly balanced on my feet. But the good news is that this is EXACTLY the area of the game where my table time with my son has helped so much. The format that we play very regularly brings up pressure situations on both players pretty much every frame so you have no choice but to learn to deal with it. And this has spilled over into my other, less important matches so I am always potting a lot more balls than I ever used to.

My biggest issue now is definitely my head, always have the voices chattering. I could use a bit of your coaching. The snooker keeps me sane from all the other crazy stuff in life and that makes it tough for me to properly be in the moment for the snooker because all that other stuff is still there, just waiting. Every step forward makes one realize that there are a lot more steps yet to go that had not even been realized before the previous step. If that makes sense. But that is a good thing, not bad. Makes it interesting, that's for sure.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

SnookerEd25 wrote:Glad this thread has got a bump, really enjoyed reading it before; just wondered, AcesInc, how your ambitions with regard to the US championships have furthered?, and now that your boy is showing good aptitude too, is it an arena he might look to compete in in the future? (Indeed, is there a Junior version at all?)


Thanks for your interest SnookerEd25. I do hope to bring a smile to a few faces with my silly stories. As for our Nationals, I couldn't make it last year (no funds) and I definitely will not make it this year (kids' graduation same weekend as tournament. Also, probably no funds). So I hope I can go back there in 2018 though it can't be too high on my priority list in life. Something you need to understand about our snooker environment over here: it is a large country and snooker facilities to support a National Championship are few and far between. I think the requirement is a minimum of four tables in a single venue and (you ought to sit down before you read this if you are not already) I believe we only have six, yes, S-I-X venues in the country that can meet that requirement. And the fact that those are located in expensive metropolitan areas. Couple that with another fact that while these venues have been very supportive of hosting the National Championship tournament each in their turns, from a business standpoint, they face a losing proposition every time they host so sometimes, the powers that be in our snooker microcosm have a difficult time convincing a venue to "please host the tournament for us this year". The tournament is always held over a three day weekend (same as my kids' graduation) so that weekend would normally be good business for the venue, but when hosting the tournament, the venue loses its normal business (and consequently, makes little to no money....the tournament does not bring in table fees to the owner, table time for tournament players is complimentary) so, as a business owner, is this something you are really interested in doing? For us little journeyman players, we are dumb enough to travel the country and stay in local hotels for the better part of a week so the expenses most likely outweigh the prize money even if we are talented enough to win. We do it for the love of the game, to finally spend a few days with others who look at the game the same way as we do, and because we have the wherewithal to do something this foolish.

So if I could go every year, I definitely would. But life beckons, so I just can't. As for talent, from what I see, we have about six guys in the country that are pretty close to top shelf, at least at amateur level. We don't have any professionals in the making that I am aware of, but a few of our guys I think are talented enough to at least win a few matches at the World Amateur Championships. I am not one of them. I don't think I will ever win the US Nationals, but I think if I continue my journey and work hard at it with the right attitude, and I get the support of a good playing partner (I will be losing my son to university next year), and if I get a good draw at the tournament, and if I get a few fortunate rolls (hey, it happens), then I could see myself making it to the Semi-Finals once or twice before I die. I don't expect I will ever actually win it though that would be a very nice surprise one day. I can win frames on sheer intelligent play, not raw talent.

And the follow up question about my boy you can probably gather from what I wrote above. He really does love the game I think but he is smart. Snooker can never be more than a pastime to someone over here unless one has nothing but time and money available to while away. We certainly have no Junior version of the Snooker Championship or Snooker programs of any kind for the kids. I think there are some local junior programs for the American pool but in my mind that is completely apples and oranges and while my kid is brilliant on an American pool table, he is just not that interested in the pool. My boy is a very good player in my eyes, but compared to the prodigies in England or in China, he is the rankest of amateurs to be bluntly honest. Highest natural break to date is 22 a couple times (one clearance from brown and one Black, Black, Blue) but we play a special format whereby he gets a handicap and with that he gets 30's quite regularly and a high handicap break of 42. And these breaks you may have gathered already come on a very difficult, tight table. So his future is certainly not in Snooker. He is a fantastic academic and will go far in university and life. He thinks his future is International Business and wouldn't you know? He has been learning to speak Chinese for four years in high school and plans to continue Chinese studies in college. See a snooker connection there? His knowledge of the snooker may come in handy when he is rubbing elbows with the Big Business Chinese.

If nothing else, I think my wife now has more options when I go to the Great Green Baize in the sky. She has always despised the snooker table so I told her that when my time comes, she will have to pay the grave diggers overtime to dig a big hole and throw the snooker table in on top of me. Now, I think my boy may just take it off her hands when the time comes and put it to good use.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby Dan-cat

acesinc wrote:I am an old timer; learned the game thirty years ago in the golden age of television snooker. There was a certain mystique to the game and it seemed that anyone who took the time to attempt to learn the game did so in an effort to approach it as was considered "proper" at the time. Decades have passed, I am back home in the USA and I play the game regularly with a handful of others who profess their love of the game but none would appear to give what I consider to be proper etiquette a second thought.

Specifically, the Rules of Snooker, Section 3., Rule 19.: "(c) When there is no referee, such as in a social game, the opposing player or side will be regarded as such for the purpose of these Rules." The greatest percentage of a referee's time is, I believe, spent tabulating and announcing the current break score since he has to do something with every single pot. After that, one can argue that the second greatest consumer of a referee's time would be the physical re-spotting of potted colours--pretty much there is some activity after every second pot. Am I the only one who still follows this dinosaur of a rule? Guys in my club usually announce the score, but not always. Sometimes, they might be too busy trotting off to the loo or getting a drink. And spotting balls? Forget it! While I have stated that I prefer the balls to be spotted for me (and I always spot for my opponent except in the rare circumstance that I would then be interfering with his movements), after I pot a colour, I may well have to wait quite some time for a spot and that in turn interferes with the flow of my break. It is a catch 22--I would like my opponent to spot so that I can carry on my naturally quick break pace, so the opponent gradually hoists himself out of his chair, ambles over to retrieve the potted colour from the pocket, then plods around the table to roll it onto its spot, usually making 3 or 4 attempts because it is not exactly on center but keeps falling into the dimple that had been developed into the spot for, oh, maybe the last four months or so. So I most often spot my own to reduce waiting time by about half. I say reduce waiting time by half literally. Figuratively, I would say that waiting for a spot, I could step outside for a quick smoke and that would include running down to the chemist for a pack since I don't smoke. Anytime I bring up the subject of spotting balls, others say that I seem to prefer spotting my own. Yes, that is true, I do prefer spotting my own colours to growing a beard while playing snooker.

In my club, I have had maybe a half dozen short term visitors from England and Ireland and they all displayed the same etiquette that I learned as an integral part of the game. But as for all of the regular club members, Americans and foreign nationals from a variety of other countries, they give me a funny look when I inform that by the rules, as well as by common courtesy, they should be doing these things. Am I the odd duck here? Has the etiquette changed in England in these intervening decades? or do you guys still play the game pretty much the way that I remember?


Was this your maiden post Acesinc? In with a bullet.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Dan-cat wrote:Was this your maiden post Acesinc? In with a bullet.


Not my first; I dabbled in "Rules" for a bit first, of course. This was my first thread origination though. I guess these days, I'm not one to muck about; straight to the point. :-)

Merry Christmas to all! Probably be off for a few days...

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby Dan-cat

acesinc wrote:
Dan-cat wrote:Was this your maiden post Acesinc? In with a bullet.


Not my first; I dabbled in "Rules" for a bit first, of course. This was my first thread origination though. I guess these days, I'm not one to muck about; straight to the point. :-)

Merry Christmas to all! Probably be off for a few days...


Merry christmas to you Acesinc. This is still one of my favourite threads. Stumbled across it because I was searching on the word Harrogate.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

Merriest of Christmases to you and yours Dan-Cat! My pleasant times in Harrogate have had lifelong influence on me. The boy will be home from Uni soon and we will get in more snooker in the next month than I can manage with other club members over about six months or so. Best Christmas present I could ask for.

Re: Is proper etiquette a thing of the past?

Postby acesinc

With the current lack of availability of live snooker at the moment, it seems that many are viewing recorded footage of old matches from days gone by. I was sent a link to a video of a match which I very probably watched live on telly back in the day as it occurred during my halcyon days in Harrogate when I was just beginning to learn about the game. I don't recall specifically seeing this but at the time of course I could not have predicted that Stephen Hendry, several years younger than me, would become a sensation in years following. This was his first appearance at the Crucible in 1986. I noticed something that reminded me so I dredged up this old thread which was the first that I had ever initiated on the Island.

I will start with a link to a YouTube video at a time stamp:

https://youtu.be/ympx7B1mGdc?t=1132

and I ask that the next poster embed this and the next video in the thread because I cannot figure out how to do it. Next, here are my notes about what to watch for in the video:

Young Stephen Hendry busted for chalking his cue when Willie Thorne is down on his shot.

19:06 Watch Stephen in background and watch Willie twitch
19:18 Willie talks to referee John Williams
19:27 Stephen pulls his chalk out of his pocket again
19:31 John Williams puts an end to that.

Young Stephen Hendry learns a valuable lesson about being a professional snooker player--win at the table, not by distracting your opponent when off table. Stephen Hendry will go on to become known for several significant acts of sportsmanship, such as this from the 1994 Championship Final:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnJdn9zqYQw

I think it is fair to surmise that we may have just been witness to a formative event in the extreme early stages of Stephen Hendry's career. May we all consequently learn the value of proper etiquette.



On another note, I miss Roland. I hope he still does check in on occasion and accepts my thanks for what he created with this forum.